Trick holster (Chambers, Removes Safety)

[Sonora Rebel]

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XD40coyote wrote:

Sonora Rebel wrote:

That has little to do with grip between thumb and forefinger. The Mak's a tight little gun. This is why many women prefer a wheelgun... 'cause they can't jack the slide on a semi-auto.

Oh poo, even my 60 yr old mother can pull a slide back on a new never fired XDm. I tricked her into it at a gun store.

Other than arthiritis or carpal tunnel or some other condition similar, I can't see why so many grown women can't rack a slide. If they can carry plastic grocery bags with a gallon of milk it themby hand, they are working those same muscles. If they can cart a baby seat with a baby in it around, they are using the same muscles. If they garden or scrub the tub every week, they are working those muscles.

I guessI am just a sour puss cuz I can stick a 50 pound feed sack on a shoulder and walk with it, and drag a 90 pound deer up a steep hill.

You come from a family of amazons... When my wife or her sisters try to pull the slide back... all they do is phart for the effort. :what:

 

[marshaul]

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eye95 wrote:

I am not familiar with this particular model of pistol.  If removing the gun from the holster chambers a round and takes off the safety, what additional safeties keep you from putting a hole in your foot?

Ask the same question about any Glock carried in a holster.

 

[eye95]

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marshaul wrote:

eye95 wrote:

I am not familiar with this particular model of pistol. If removing the gun from the holster chambers a round and takes off the safety, what additional safeties keep you from putting a hole in your foot?

Ask the same question about any Glock carried in a holster.

I have never handled a Glock. I carry a 1911. So, OK, what safeties are available for a Glock when it is drawn? Are you saying that it has no thumb safety?

 

[marshaul]

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Glocks have no external safeties whatsoever.

There is the trigger safety, which prevents the trigger from moving until you press it (fairly pointless), and there is an internal drop-safe mechanism.

No thumb safety, no grip safety.

In fact, the grip safety is a big reason I got an XD instead of a Glock. The XD has a grip safety, which means that it can be holstered with a slightly modified grip such that the grip safety is not depressed and the gun cannot fire.

This is actually a major problem with Glocks: firing when re-holstering. Since the only safety is on the trigger, all you have to do is have something sticking into your holster and the gun will discharge. Happens all the time, too.

With the XD one can holster in such a way that, with practice, no level of distraction and no amount of protrusions in the holster will cause a discharge.

Edit: Of course, with a 1911 I utilize the thumb safety, and thus I don't modify my grip when re-holstering, but instead I'll keep the grip safety depressed with a normal full control grip.

Further edit: BTW, another advantage to using a modified grip when re-holstering an XD is that the grip safety on the XD prevents the slide from moving more than a little and thus the gun from going out of battery. This is actually another problem with Glocks: if the thumb isn't pressed on the back of the slide when holstering, the friction of the tight fit may take the chambered round out of battery. This is easily avoided with the XD.

Historical trivia: One of the final prototypes of the 1911 (the model 1910 prototype) lacked a thumb safety. The cavalry actually requested John Moses Browning to add a thumb safety so that the gun could be safely holstered while riding, with one hand. Many people neglect this, but for this intended purpose the function of the thumb safety in locking the slide is more important than its function in locking the trigger.

I've tried it, and a 1911 is nearly impossible to holster one-handed in a GI flap holster with the safety off in such a way that the slide stays in battery.

 

[Master Doug Huffman]

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I was just messin' around today, playing with taking my SA1911A1 from Condition Two (round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer down) to Condition One (round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer cocked, safety on) while in its SERPA. It worked pretty well.

 

[marshaul]

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For some reason I can only do that with my Serpa when the holster is off my body.

If I'm wearing the holster, it pushes on the slide stop pin from the right side. When the slide is pulled back, since the pin is being pushed from right to left, the gun will begin to break itself down, so to speak, and will jam as a result.

So, no racking the slide with the gun in the holster for me. :?

But I can do an "administrative unload" when the holster is sitting on a table or the like.

 

[Pace]

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You can draw it the normal way, or the fast way. The idea of the fast way is that you need immediate action. Why would you want a safety then???

 

[Bikenut]

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The following is just my experience.. and opinion... nothing more.

When I first began shooting I was always afraid I'd do something wrong and the gun would go off when I didn't want it to. Then I learned the single most important thing ever..... keep my finger off the trigger until I did want the gun to go off. Yet I was still very mindful of the external "safety" and just the presence of a "safety" made me feel better.

Then I started carrying a gun and immediately understood that a gun in my hand that needs something done to it before it is ready to fire is a detriment, not an asset, under dire circumstances. After all... it is not a range gun.... it is a carry gun so if it comes out of the holster I will really, really, need it to be ready to fire right now! So logic told me that the gun.. what ever gun I chose... would need to be ready to fire the instant I had gun in hand. From that moment on I carried with a round chambered.

Time passed and I bought a Glock (none of this post is a commercial for Glock!) and there was no external safety. I felt uncomfortable and bought a little plastic block that went behind the trigger so the gun couldn't fire until I pushed out that little block... but then that little plastic thingy added one more level of thing that could go wrong (yeah, folks practice clicking the safety off but there is no guarantee that stress won't screw up that maneuver) at the worst possible time.

Then I remembered why I bought the Glock in the first place... by design the gun is immediately ready to fire if carried as intended with full mag and round chambered.... and I focused even more on keeping my snot snagger out of the trigger guard.

Much time has passed, years in fact... and... although my gun goes from hip holster to lounging robe pocket holster to nightstand each night, and nightstand to holster each morning, and holster to secure lockdown in the car when going to places I can't carry, and lockdown to holster in the car when I get back.... not once has the gun gone off by itself because I pay attention to how I reholster... and my snot snagger stays away from the trigger.

It is my opinion (not putting anyone down for what they think/do/believe) that external safeties offer a false sense of security and tend to encourage less than full focus on safe gun handling practices. Not to mention that any external safety that must be manipulated before the gun can be used adds yet another factor that could go wrong just from stress at a time when the gun is desperately needed to be immediately used.

I have learned that the best, and only positively sure, safety is for me to treat every gun as if it is loaded... and that even means the one I'm cleaning in several pieces on the table... and always keep my finger off the trigger regardless of what I'm doing with the gun... unless I want it to go bang.

Other folks may have different views/opinions......

 

[simmonsjoe]

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Sonora Rebel wrote:

XD40coyote wrote:

Sonora Rebel wrote:

That has little to do with grip between thumb and forefinger. The Mak's a tight little gun. This is why many women prefer a wheelgun... 'cause they can't jack the slide on a semi-auto.

Oh poo, even my 60 yr old mother can pull a slide back on a new never fired XDm. I tricked her into it at a gun store.

Other than arthiritis or carpal tunnel or some other condition similar, I can't see why so many grown women can't rack a slide. If they can carry plastic grocery bags with a gallon of milk it themby hand, they are working those same muscles. If they can cart a baby seat with a baby in it around, they are using the same muscles. If they garden or scrub the tub every week, they are working those muscles.

I guessI am just a sour puss cuz I can stick a 50 pound feed sack on a shoulder and walk with it, and drag a 90 pound deer up a steep hill.

You come from a family of amazons... When my wife or her sisters try to pull the slide back... all they do is phart for the effort. :what:

THE MAKAROV is a BLOWBACK operated firearm. The 9mm MAK cartridge was also designed to be the most powerful cartridge the simple blowback system can operate. So they have very high spring rates. Therefor the slide is MUCH harder to rack than on a browning-type locked breech (Like your SA XD). Most 9mm slides are easier to rack than .380 blowbacks. (go rack the slide on a PPK/S!)

 

[Carnivore]

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Bikenut said a mouthfull !! Literally !! Just kiddin Bikenut, My wife and I both carry DAO No grip safety, no external safety at all except trigger finger inline with the slide until ready to fire. I too am not knocking any make, personal preference, model or caliber but our Kahr .40 and 9mm is business ready if needed I can have 4 rounds down range by the time the fella next tome has 1out of a 1911 style pistol. Safetys are good and serve a function for some folks, but the only real safetyfor a firearm is in your head.

 

[MatieA]

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Sonora Rebel wrote:

XD40coyote wrote:

Sonora Rebel wrote:

That has little to do with grip between thumb and forefinger. The Mak's a tight little gun. This is why many women prefer a wheelgun... 'cause they can't jack the slide on a semi-auto.

Oh poo, even my 60 yr old mother can pull a slide back on a new never fired XDm. I tricked her into it at a gun store.

Other than arthiritis or carpal tunnel or some other condition similar, I can't see why so many grown women can't rack a slide. If they can carry plastic grocery bags with a gallon of milk it themby hand, they are working those same muscles. If they can cart a baby seat with a baby in it around, they are using the same muscles. If they garden or scrub the tub every week, they are working those muscles.

I guessI am just a sour puss cuz I can stick a 50 pound feed sack on a shoulder and walk with it, and drag a 90 pound deer up a steep hill.

You come from a family of amazons... When my wife or her sisters try to pull the slide back... all they do is phart for the effort. :what:

My 12 yr old daughter can rack the slide on my .40 rather easily. She does whenever we go to the range and I let her shoot my gun for a while.

 

[KBCraig]

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Back to the holster:

This is not only wasted gadgetry with the Makarov, it actually makes for a slower draw and presentation.

A traditional draw and presentation is one smooth continuous motion, where you draw, rotate the muzzle towards the target, bring both hands together and establish the support grip as you continue to bring the gun onto target, then acquire a shooting grip and stance.

This gimmick holster requires you to thrust downwards strongly enough to overcome its retention, and rack the slide, and disengage the safety, and then stop that inertial motion, reverse directions, and pick back up with rotating the muzzle, acquiring a two-hand grip, etc.

It's a solution in search of a problem. Maybe the Russians found it handy, since they like to carry unchambered and perform tactical shoulder rolls while drawing. For anyone else, it's pointless.

 

[Pace]

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Have you considered that a downward draw would be faster, its a single presentation, downward and out.

"bring both hands together and establish the support grip as you continue to bring the gun onto target, then acquire a shooting grip and stance."

I really hope that you are not teaching self defensive shooting. This is range shooting. When I teach people how to defend themselves, I teach them how to do it frmo anywhere, any stance, and one handed first, then moving into a more stable shot....

Everyone should learn how to shoot their gun with one hand, and with weak hand eventually. I only shoot now one handed, because in a self defense situation, you need the other hand for defensive, protection of children/family.

 

[Ian]

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eye95 wrote:

If that is the only safety you have left while drawing the weapon, I'll take Hole in Your Foot for $1000 Alex.

While handling the weapon, before you have it pointed at something that a hole in won't cause you to cry, redundant safeties are a big plus.

Are there any other safeties in that situation other than "ain't nothing going to cause the trigger to move"?

Look at that trigger while the hammer is bag, looks like a pretty long trigger pull to me. Unless you're a complete idiot it would be pretty difficult to blow a hole in your foot.

 

[Pace]

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I still dont understand safeties. If I draw a weapon in self defensive, I am ready to shoot. If I draw a waepon otherwise, my finger is not on the trigger. Simple

 

[eye95]

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Has anyone considered the direction the gun is moving when it is drawn from this trick holster and the direction, relative to the trigger, that any stationary object would appear to be moving?

The reason for redundancy is that any system can fail. If two safety systems each have only a 1/1000 chance of failing, combined they have a 1/1000000 chance of failing.

If I am moving a gun forcefully in a direction opposite to a trigger pull, I am NOT going to rely on my finger not being on the trigger as the only safety. God knows what might brush past that trigger forcefully while shoving that handgun downward. That something brushing past the trigger could well be something entirely out of my control. I want that thumb safety under my control.

If anyone here thinks that holster is a cool idea, great. We all have considered opinions. I still think the holster is dangerous.

 

[eye95]

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Pace wrote:

I still dont understand safeties. If I draw a weapon in self defensive, I am ready to shoot. If I draw a waepon otherwise, my finger is not on the trigger. Simple

Do you carry with the hammer cocked and no safety? I know this is a completely different situation, but I am curious about your general statement about not understanding safeties.

 

[XD40coyote]

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I can work the slide on a Bersa .380 which is a copy of the ppk, just fine. Also no problem with the ppk in .32, and it fit my hands perfectly to boot.

Oh yeah I bet I could go through my whole day and find several more examples of chores and tasks that work those wrist and hand muscles. I already have one to add- wringing the water from my hair after showering.

Now if you ask me to set a beaver trap without use of a trap setter, then I become Ms Weak Hands, but considering that there are as many female trappers as there are female OCers, these trap setters are used by quite a few men. And I am by no means as strong as most men. I once foundI was even with a thin wristed metrosexual, but I'm not sure he even counts LOL.

 

[Pace]

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Still doesnt make sense. Why would you want to have to "move" a lever in order to defend yourself. Can you imaigne, if you forget the safety is on? One shot lost, too much time, attacker already stabbed you.

When I draw against an attacked, I always have a round chambered. I carry always that way, don't understand any other way.

 

[eye95]

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Pace wrote:

Still doesnt make sense. Why would you want to have to "move" a lever in order to defend yourself. Can you imaigne, if you forget the safety is on? One shot lost, too much time, attacker already stabbed you.

When I draw against an attacked, I always have a round chambered. I carry always that way, don't understand any other way.

So, in what condition do you carry? Cocked and no safety? I am trying to understand what you are saying.

Thanks in advance.