This Looks Really Bad For Open Carry

[PT111]

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You read about the personal lives of the Founding Fathers and you wonder how in the world did they create a United States. Things like Jefferson's slave who was actually his wife's half-sister, Ben Frankiln's escapades in France and George Washington's expense account would put any modern day politician out of office and probably in jail. They were not the saints that histroy tries to make them out to be but they did have enough respect for each other to listen. The Federalist Papers were much more than just words but were actually speeches trying to convince others to their way of thinking. Thye had differences but were not as today's parties where it is nothing more than a contest not unlike a baseball game whereone side wins only if the other sides loses. To use an overused term they were looking for a win-win situation for all. But you have to remember that when they used "We the People" they did not necessarily mean all the people.

 

[PrayingForWar]

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The Donkey wrote:

Thanks, I think.

My family and I visited Jefferson's Monticello this weekend. The guide pointed out that Jefferson kept a bust of his fierce Federalist opponent Alexander Hamilton in his parlor, along with those of other heros of the revolution.

Now I'm not about to order a portrait of President Reagan for my living room, butthink there is something to learn from T.J.'s example.

It's a compliment, or at least the best an a$$hole like me can give someone who I oppose vehemently on every issue except gun control, and we probably disagree on many of those fundamentals as well. So, even though I can't understand how you can support the things you do, I'm glad you're here discussing them.

When everyone is thinking the same, someone isn't thinking -- Patton

 

[hammer6]

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smoking357 wrote:

Evidently, the guy who openly carried his AR-15 attends some nutjob homegrown church where the "pastor" prayed for Obama to die.

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/08/pastor_of_gun-toter_at_obama_event_day_before_even.php?ref=fpb

If you're a gun owner, stay away from the scary churches and know that Jesus is called the Prince of Peace, not Shiva.

so what??? freedom of speech. obama's pastor cursed our troops. and said god DAMN america. what about that? doesn't that look really bad for the white house?

 

[Citizen]

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The Donkey wrote:

SNIP The guide pointed out that Jefferson kept a bust of his fierce Federalist opponent Alexander Hamilton in his parlor...butthink there is something to learn from T.J.'s example.

Michael Corleone, "Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer."

 

[The Donkey]

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Citizen wrote:

The Donkey wrote:

SNIP The guide pointed out that Jefferson kept a bust of his fierce Federalist opponent Alexander Hamilton in his parlor...butthink there is something to learn from T.J.'s example.

Michael Corleone, "Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer."

From the Montecello Explorer:

Jefferson placed two busts, a likeness of himself and his political opponent Alexander Hamilton, opposite one another in the Entrance Hall. Both were modeled by the Italian sculptor Giuseppe Ceracchi in Philadelphia in 1793 and 1794. One of Jefferson's grandchildren said,

the eye settled with a deeper interest on busts of Jefferson and Hamilton, by Ceracchi, placed on massive pedestals on each side of the main entrance—"opposed in death as in life," as the surviving original sometimes remarked, with a pensive smile, as he observed the notice they attracted.​

Visitors to Monticello found the juxtaposition particularly amusing because the colossal-sized Jefferson bust on its green marble pedestal decorated with the signs of the zodiac and the twelve tribes of Israel towered above the life-sized Hamilton.

 

[Grapeshot]

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Citizen wrote:

The Donkey wrote:

SNIP The guide pointed out that Jefferson kept a bust of his fierce Federalist opponent Alexander Hamilton in his parlor...butthink there is something to learn from T.J.'s example.

Michael Corleone, "Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer."

And watch who's behind your back. click, click, click......

Yata hey

 

[KansasMustang]

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PT111 wrote:

You read about the personal lives of the Founding Fathers and you wonder how in the world did they create a United States. Things like Jefferson's slave who was actually his wife's half-sister, Ben Frankiln's escapades in France and George Washington's expense account would put any modern day politician out of office and probably in jail. They were not the saints that histroy tries to make them out to be but they did have enough respect for each other to listen. The Federalist Papers were much more than just words but were actually speeches trying to convince others to their way of thinking. Thye had differences but were not as today's parties where it is nothing more than a contest not unlike a baseball game whereone side wins only if the other sides loses. To use an overused term they were looking for a win-win situation for all. But you have to remember that when they used "We the People" they did not necessarily mean all the people.

PT111 ,as far as your knowledge of history, you've been duped as have most of the younger generation. If you'd read the books,,The Real Ben Franklin, George Washington,,Thomas Jefferson, you'd Know that our Founders have been dragged theough the mud by the Elitist Secular Progressives. These were men of Honor and dignity. Unlike this current administration of liars and thieves. My greatest fear is that we cannot save our Republic from idiots,,,, Edited by self: sorry for the personal attack, just that I've heard so much of this type of crap I'm sick to death of it.

 

[Grapeshot]

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KansasMustang wrote:

PT111 wrote:

You read about the personal lives of the Founding Fathers and you wonder how in the world did they create a United States. Things like Jefferson's slave who was actually his wife's half-sister, Ben Frankiln's escapades in France and George Washington's expense account would put any modern day politician out of office and probably in jail. They were not the saints that histroy tries to make them out to be but they did have enough respect for each other to listen. The Federalist Papers were much more than just words but were actually speeches trying to convince others to their way of thinking. Thye had differences but were not as today's parties where it is nothing more than a contest not unlike a baseball game whereone side wins only if the other sides loses. To use an overused term they were looking for a win-win situation for all. But you have to remember that when they used "We the People" they did not necessarily mean all the people.

PT111 ,as far as your knowledge of history, you've been duped as have most of the younger generation. If you'd read the books,,The Real Ben Franklin, George Washington,,Thomas Jefferson, you'd Know that our Founders have been dragged theough the mud by the Elitist Secular Progressives. These were men of Honor and dignity. Unlike this current administration of liars and thieves. Delete option utilized here -GS.

To some degree, what you both say has merit/truth; however, no one facet of a person's profile defines the complete man.

PT111 actually has a very accurate grasp of some of the idiosyncrasies of our founding fathers. Have some of these been pushed to the forefront over far greater accomplishments by some - unequivocally yes.

Ben Franklin was a libertine of the highest order. He was also a consummate negotiator who had the ability to bring people together. A truly great mind.

George Washington was noble in many ways but his expenditure of funds did not enamor him with his contemporaries anymore than his lack of success on the battlefield did. In the end, he did triumph.

Thomas Jefferson enjoyed the many privileges afforded by his position as a Virginia planter/gentleman (not all positive). One of the truly great thinkers of his and our time.

As is often the case, the deeds of mere mortals are greater in death than they were in life. Nonetheless, we have these men to thank for our country and our heritage. I am truly grateful and inspired daily by what they collectively accomplished.

Yata hey

 

[PrayingForWar]

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Grapeshot wrote:

KansasMustang wrote:

PT111 wrote:

You read about the personal lives of the Founding Fathers and you wonder how in the world did they create a United States. Things like Jefferson's slave who was actually his wife's half-sister, Ben Frankiln's escapades in France and George Washington's expense account would put any modern day politician out of office and probably in jail. They were not the saints that histroy tries to make them out to be but they did have enough respect for each other to listen. The Federalist Papers were much more than just words but were actually speeches trying to convince others to their way of thinking. Thye had differences but were not as today's parties where it is nothing more than a contest not unlike a baseball game whereone side wins only if the other sides loses. To use an overused term they were looking for a win-win situation for all. But you have to remember that when they used "We the People" they did not necessarily mean all the people.

PT111 ,as far as your knowledge of history, you've been duped as have most of the younger generation. If you'd read the books,,The Real Ben Franklin, George Washington,,Thomas Jefferson, you'd Know that our Founders have been dragged theough the mud by the Elitist Secular Progressives. These were men of Honor and dignity. Unlike this current administration of liars and thieves. Delete option utilized here -GS.

To some degree, what you both say has merit/truth; however, no one facet of a person's profile defines the complete man.

PT111 actually has a very accurate grasp of some of the idiosyncrasies of our founding fathers. Have some of these been pushed to the forefront over far greater accomplishments by some - unequivocally yes.

Ben Franklin was a libertine of the highest order. He was also a consummate negotiator who had the ability to bring people together. A truly great mind.

George Washington was noble in many ways but his expenditure of funds did not enamor him with his contemporaries anymore than his lack of success on the battlefield did. In the end, he did triumph.

Thomas Jefferson enjoyed the many privileges afforded by his position as a Virginia planter/gentleman (not all positive). One of the truly great thinkers of his and our time.

As is often the case, the deeds of mere mortals are greater in death than they were in life. Nonetheless, we have these men to thank for our country and our heritage. I am truly grateful and inspired daily by what they collectively accomplished.

Yata hey

Well said!!!

 

[KansasMustang]

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Grapeshot wrote:

KansasMustang wrote:

PT111 wrote:

You read about the personal lives of the Founding Fathers and you wonder how in the world did they create a United States. Things like Jefferson's slave who was actually his wife's half-sister, Ben Frankiln's escapades in France and George Washington's expense account would put any modern day politician out of office and probably in jail. They were not the saints that histroy tries to make them out to be but they did have enough respect for each other to listen. The Federalist Papers were much more than just words but were actually speeches trying to convince others to their way of thinking. Thye had differences but were not as today's parties where it is nothing more than a contest not unlike a baseball game whereone side wins only if the other sides loses. To use an overused term they were looking for a win-win situation for all. But you have to remember that when they used "We the People" they did not necessarily mean all the people.

PT111 ,as far as your knowledge of history, you've been duped as have most of the younger generation. If you'd read the books,,The Real Ben Franklin, George Washington,,Thomas Jefferson, you'd Know that our Founders have been dragged theough the mud by the Elitist Secular Progressives. These were men of Honor and dignity. Unlike this current administration of liars and thieves. Delete option utilized here -GS.

To some degree, what you both say has merit/truth; however, no one facet of a person's profile defines the complete man.

PT111 actually has a very accurate grasp of some of the idiosyncrasies of our founding fathers. Have some of these been pushed to the forefront over far greater accomplishments by some - unequivocally yes.

Ben Franklin was a libertine of the highest order. He was also a consummate negotiator who had the ability to bring people together. A truly great mind.

George Washington was noble in many ways but his expenditure of funds did not enamor him with his contemporaries anymore than his lack of success on the battlefield did. In the end, he did triumph.

Thomas Jefferson enjoyed the many privileges afforded by his position as a Virginia planter/gentleman (not all positive). One of the truly great thinkers of his and our time.

As is often the case, the deeds of mere mortals are greater in death than they were in life. Nonetheless, we have these men to thank for our country and our heritage. I am truly grateful and inspired daily by what they collectively accomplished.

Yata hey

And you post that Ben Franklin was a Libertine of the highest order, sources? Have you read any of the books I spoke of? These were not written by the men themselves but from sources researched by the authors and others. Ben Franklin spent over 25 years of his life in Britain and France in service to his country, lost his wife to illness on his way home. Lost his son to his Tory beliefs. Sorry Grapeshot, I don't believe he was a libertine, moreover, they were all Patriots, and I hope that WE, can emulate them. Some little known facts, and I'll probably catch eternal hell from people that do not understand. All the aforementioned me were Freemasons, as were a great many, 85% of the signers of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. Most of you do not know or realize that the concepts of Liberty, Justice, Tolerance for all religious beliefs, and Charity are the concepts of Freemasonry. This country was founded not only on Judeo/Christian concept, but on those of Freemasonry.
Now I'll get the flak about how Masons are evil devil worshippers from the ignorant masses. But it's okay, I have big shoulders and truth in my arsenal.

 

[PrayingForWar]

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KansasMustang wrote:

Grapeshot wrote:

KansasMustang wrote:

PT111 wrote:

You read about the personal lives of the Founding Fathers and you wonder how in the world did they create a United States. Things like Jefferson's slave who was actually his wife's half-sister, Ben Frankiln's escapades in France and George Washington's expense account would put any modern day politician out of office and probably in jail. They were not the saints that histroy tries to make them out to be but they did have enough respect for each other to listen. The Federalist Papers were much more than just words but were actually speeches trying to convince others to their way of thinking. Thye had differences but were not as today's parties where it is nothing more than a contest not unlike a baseball game whereone side wins only if the other sides loses. To use an overused term they were looking for a win-win situation for all. But you have to remember that when they used "We the People" they did not necessarily mean all the people.

PT111 ,as far as your knowledge of history, you've been duped as have most of the younger generation. If you'd read the books,,The Real Ben Franklin, George Washington,,Thomas Jefferson, you'd Know that our Founders have been dragged theough the mud by the Elitist Secular Progressives. These were men of Honor and dignity. Unlike this current administration of liars and thieves. Delete option utilized here -GS.

To some degree, what you both say has merit/truth; however, no one facet of a person's profile defines the complete man.

PT111 actually has a very accurate grasp of some of the idiosyncrasies of our founding fathers. Have some of these been pushed to the forefront over far greater accomplishments by some - unequivocally yes.

Ben Franklin was a libertine of the highest order. He was also a consummate negotiator who had the ability to bring people together. A truly great mind.

George Washington was noble in many ways but his expenditure of funds did not enamor him with his contemporaries anymore than his lack of success on the battlefield did. In the end, he did triumph.

Thomas Jefferson enjoyed the many privileges afforded by his position as a Virginia planter/gentleman (not all positive). One of the truly great thinkers of his and our time.

As is often the case, the deeds of mere mortals are greater in death than they were in life. Nonetheless, we have these men to thank for our country and our heritage. I am truly grateful and inspired daily by what they collectively accomplished.

Yata hey

And you post that Ben Franklin was a Libertine of the highest order, sources? Have you read any of the books I spoke of? These were not written by the men themselves but from sources researched by the authors and others. Ben Franklin spent over 25 years of his life in Britain and France in service to his country, lost his wife to illness on his way home. Lost his son to his Tory beliefs. Sorry Grapeshot, I don't believe he was a libertine, moreover, they were all Patriots, and I hope that WE, can emulate them. Some little known facts, and I'll probably catch eternal hell from people that do not understand. All the aforementioned me were Freemasons, as were a great many, 85% of the signers of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. Most of you do not know or realize that the concepts of Liberty, Justice, Tolerance for all religious beliefs, and Charity are the concepts of Freemasonry. This country was founded not only on Judeo/Christian concept, but on those of Freemasonry.
Now I'll get the flak about how Masons are evil devil worshippers from the ignorant masses. But it's okay, I have big shoulders and truth in my arsenal.

I don't personally know any masons that are short on good character. That said we havesome masons, such as Fmr President Clinton who are certainly lacking in that dept. I know in order to join a lodge you have to be a moral person, but what happens to some of the elected officials who loose that? Shouldn't they be expelled or something?

 

[KansasMustang]

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PrayingForWar wrote:

KansasMustang wrote:

Grapeshot wrote:

KansasMustang wrote:

PT111 wrote:

You read about the personal lives of the Founding Fathers and you wonder how in the world did they create a United States. Things like Jefferson's slave who was actually his wife's half-sister, Ben Frankiln's escapades in France and George Washington's expense account would put any modern day politician out of office and probably in jail. They were not the saints that histroy tries to make them out to be but they did have enough respect for each other to listen. The Federalist Papers were much more than just words but were actually speeches trying to convince others to their way of thinking. Thye had differences but were not as today's parties where it is nothing more than a contest not unlike a baseball game whereone side wins only if the other sides loses. To use an overused term they were looking for a win-win situation for all. But you have to remember that when they used "We the People" they did not necessarily mean all the people.

PT111 ,as far as your knowledge of history, you've been duped as have most of the younger generation. If you'd read the books,,The Real Ben Franklin, George Washington,,Thomas Jefferson, you'd Know that our Founders have been dragged theough the mud by the Elitist Secular Progressives. These were men of Honor and dignity. Unlike this current administration of liars and thieves. Delete option utilized here -GS.

To some degree, what you both say has merit/truth; however, no one facet of a person's profile defines the complete man.

PT111 actually has a very accurate grasp of some of the idiosyncrasies of our founding fathers. Have some of these been pushed to the forefront over far greater accomplishments by some - unequivocally yes.

Ben Franklin was a libertine of the highest order. He was also a consummate negotiator who had the ability to bring people together. A truly great mind.

George Washington was noble in many ways but his expenditure of funds did not enamor him with his contemporaries anymore than his lack of success on the battlefield did. In the end, he did triumph.

Thomas Jefferson enjoyed the many privileges afforded by his position as a Virginia planter/gentleman (not all positive). One of the truly great thinkers of his and our time.

As is often the case, the deeds of mere mortals are greater in death than they were in life. Nonetheless, we have these men to thank for our country and our heritage. I am truly grateful and inspired daily by what they collectively accomplished.

Yata hey

And you post that Ben Franklin was a Libertine of the highest order, sources? Have you read any of the books I spoke of? These were not written by the men themselves but from sources researched by the authors and others. Ben Franklin spent over 25 years of his life in Britain and France in service to his country, lost his wife to illness on his way home. Lost his son to his Tory beliefs. Sorry Grapeshot, I don't believe he was a libertine, moreover, they were all Patriots, and I hope that WE, can emulate them. Some little known facts, and I'll probably catch eternal hell from people that do not understand. All the aforementioned me were Freemasons, as were a great many, 85% of the signers of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. Most of you do not know or realize that the concepts of Liberty, Justice, Tolerance for all religious beliefs, and Charity are the concepts of Freemasonry. This country was founded not only on Judeo/Christian concept, but on those of Freemasonry.
Now I'll get the flak about how Masons are evil devil worshippers from the ignorant masses. But it's okay, I have big shoulders and truth in my arsenal.

I don't personally know any masons that are short on good character. That said we havesome masons, such as Fmr President Clinton who are certainly lacking in that dept. I know in order to join a lodge you have to be a moral person, but what happens to some of the elected officials who loose that? Shouldn't they be expelled or something?

Former Pres. Clinton was not a Mason. He was in DeMolay, which is the young man's part of the Masonic family of organizations, as is the Job's Daughter's and Rainbow Girls for the female relations of Masons. And there are other organizations in the Masonic family, such as the Scottish Rite, York Rite, and Shriners. Most people do not know that Masonic charities provide approx. 4.5 Million $ a DAY to sponsor different charities, and the Shrine itself which runs 22 hospitals, 4 burn and 18, Orthopedic hospitals spends approx. 1.85 million, per day. Not only do you have to have moral character, but you have to believe in the "Brotherhood of Man under the Fatherhood of God. Now, they don't care what you call the Architect of the Universe, just that you believe in a single deity, not in a multi-deistic belief. And 2B1Uask1.

 

[Grapeshot]

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KansasMustang

I pick no quarrel with you. I have done a lot of traveling and have found Masons to be an honorable and worthwhile brotherhood.

Have I read all of the books you suggest? No. Have I read extensively on these men, other patriots and founding fathers? Yes.

Ben Franklin did lose his wife and was estranged from his son over political beliefs. He was also an infamous "lady's man" of his time and much courted by the fairer sex. Goggle The Hell Fire Club and learn of his interests in that arena. He has jokingly been called the real "father" of our country by some.

These are not slanderous remarks. They too are based on well documented history.

I repeat that I hold these men in very high regard and give thanks that such as they existed at the right time in history. They were men of strong convictions and willing to risk all for the sake of their country and freedom. That said, they were also burdened with frailties of being human - less than perfect.

Yata hey

 

[Citizen]

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Grapeshot wrote:

SNIP...frailties of being human - less than perfect.

Oh! Is that what Tom Cruise/Jerry McGuire meant whenhesaid,"You complete me"?

 

[Grapeshot]

imported post

Citizen wrote:

Grapeshot wrote:

SNIP...frailties of being human - less than perfect.

Oh! Is that what Tom Cruise/Jerry McGuire meant whenhesaid,"You complete me"?

Uncle Ben also had Kwan. A thing that many others lacked - perhaps that played a part in his many successes.

Didn't know you were so well read.

Yata hey