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Texas, We Have a Problem

Ian

Lone Star Veteran
Joined
Nov 11, 2007
Messages
710
Location
Austin, TX
I guess I didn't truly realize how big of an issue this was until last night when I went to business after business that was posted 30.07. I'm guessing that Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America has ran a huge campaign contacting Texas business associations and getting them to spread info to businesses across the state that there is an "outcry" to ban guns in stores from customers. Unfortunately this group is putting out an image to small businesses that allowing open carry in their establishment will be like having people with scary black rifles holding American flags when in reality it's the people that have been concealed carrying in their businesses for years and the only difference is an article of clothing behind the gun instead of in front of it. Another negative effect of this is that some businesses that were otherwise un-posted for concealed carry are also putting up 30.06 with the 30.07.

Last night I also discovered Texas3006.com, and I would suggest taking a look over there and updating businesses as you see them posted so we can all be informed when we are out and about. I have also heard stories on other websites of people seeing 30.07 signs that weren't technically legal due to letters not being 1" etc... I hope everyone here realizes that open carrying past a sign like that into a business that doesn't want open carry is not how we should go about trying to change people's minds about this. We're supposed to be the most responsible and law-abiding group of Texans in the state according to crime statistics. If you don't see the sign, that's one thing, but we shouldn't be calling out businesses on technicalities when we know what their intent is. If you're OC, they're going to ask you to leave anyways.

Don't get discouraged. This is a new thing and once the fear mongering from anti-gun groups dies down and we have real data to show businesses, we will have to start convincing these businesses one by one why they should not alienate almost a million Texans and their money.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,331
Location
Valhalla
Fear mongering, the people and shops will get the message that it just isn't so - no shoot outs, no blood in the streets, just normal, responsible people going about their daily routines.
 

qednick

Regular Member
Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
499
Location
Bandera, TX
I guess I didn't truly realize how big of an issue this was until last night when I went to business after business that was posted 30.07. I'm guessing that Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America has ran a huge campaign contacting Texas business associations and getting them to spread info to businesses across the state that there is an "outcry" to ban guns in stores from customers. Unfortunately this group is putting out an image to small businesses that allowing open carry in their establishment will be like having people with scary black rifles holding American flags when in reality it's the people that have been concealed carrying in their businesses for years and the only difference is an article of clothing behind the gun instead of in front of it. Another negative effect of this is that some businesses that were otherwise un-posted for concealed carry are also putting up 30.06 with the 30.07.

Last night I also discovered Texas3006.com, and I would suggest taking a look over there and updating businesses as you see them posted so we can all be informed when we are out and about. I have also heard stories on other websites of people seeing 30.07 signs that weren't technically legal due to letters not being 1" etc... I hope everyone here realizes that open carrying past a sign like that into a business that doesn't want open carry is not how we should go about trying to change people's minds about this. We're supposed to be the most responsible and law-abiding group of Texans in the state according to crime statistics. If you don't see the sign, that's one thing, but we shouldn't be calling out businesses on technicalities when we know what their intent is. If you're OC, they're going to ask you to leave anyways.

Don't get discouraged. This is a new thing and once the fear mongering from anti-gun groups dies down and we have real data to show businesses, we will have to start convincing these businesses one by one why they should not alienate almost a million Texans and their money.

Ian, was this is the Austin area? I haven't really seen any in San Antonio except H.E.B. and the other well known 30.07 posters.
 

Ian

Lone Star Veteran
Joined
Nov 11, 2007
Messages
710
Location
Austin, TX
Ian, was this is the Austin area? I haven't really seen any in San Antonio except H.E.B. and the other well known 30.07 posters.

That's correct. I suspect Austin will have the most 30.07 signs given how liberal the city is.
 

rightwinglibertarian

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2014
Messages
827
Location
Seattle WA
Tell you what. Why don't we get a list of stores that do and I'll target them from the news page as dangerous potential deathtraps. A bit of negative publicity should work wonders if they get enough attention for that behavior. And updating the Friend or Foe would also be a good idea as well as going out one day while not carrying and hitting all those stores with go guns no $$ cards. And yes Austin is super liberal but maybe there is hope for it if the few good people get off their hind ends and work to educate people
 

fozzy71

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2010
Messages
931
Location
Roseville, Michigan, USA

Ian

Lone Star Veteran
Joined
Nov 11, 2007
Messages
710
Location
Austin, TX
Don't mind me, just lurking from MI waiting for the blood to start running in the streets and sorely disappointed so far. :rolleyes:



Wow, that is one poorly formatted/styled site.

I agree with you, but it's the only resource I've found for 30.07 businesses.
 

kinggabby

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2013
Messages
84
Location
Duncan, Ok
Oklahoma chiming in. I am so glad y'all have open carry. I just had that your signs have weight of law behind them. In Oklahoma if a place is posted and you are asked to leave and you don't then the worse you can get is a trespass ticket ( $250 ). So when asked to leave just leave. In the little town I live most places are not posted so it is good to go. I heard Walmart tried to post no weapon signs here ( not state wide ) but because of local backlash they pulled them down in less than a week. When the law was new LEO would check ID's After a few months they stopped . I remember anti's using the old " Blood in the streets" . Most people don't know ( pay attention ) because they are lost in their little worlds. In the past several years I have only had a few negative encounters ( only one LEO related) . I have always found it funny when a person walks up to me ( going out of their way to do so) and tell me how nervous I made them. I know if someone made me nervous I would not walk up and confront them ( especially if they had a gun ) . The only thing I want to add is be polite and friendly . Use encounters to educate people. Even if they decide to be rude tell them to have a nice day, blessed day or however you wish to do so. But always be kind in your words and deeds. And don't be discouraged and give up. The powers that be do not want up to use our rights. And only by showing the fence riders that we are good kind people will they ever see us as normal. Never be afraid to answer questions. If they want to know if it is legal inform them of it. If they want to know how can they do it let them know. Keep up the good work and make it normal for people.
 

BB62

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
4,041
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Oklahoma chiming in. I am so glad y'all have open carry. I just had that your signs have weight of law behind them. In Oklahoma if a place is posted and you are asked to leave and you don't then the worse you can get is a trespass ticket ( $250 ). So when asked to leave just leave. In the little town I live most places are not posted so it is good to go. I heard Walmart tried to post no weapon signs here ( not state wide ) but because of local backlash they pulled them down in less than a week. When the law was new LEO would check ID's After a few months they stopped . I remember anti's using the old " Blood in the streets" . Most people don't know ( pay attention ) because they are lost in their little worlds. In the past several years I have only had a few negative encounters ( only one LEO related) . I have always found it funny when a person walks up to me ( going out of their way to do so) and tell me how nervous I made them. I know if someone made me nervous I would not walk up and confront them ( especially if they had a gun ) . The only thing I want to add is be polite and friendly . Use encounters to educate people. Even if they decide to be rude tell them to have a nice day, blessed day or however you wish to do so. But always be kind in your words and deeds. And don't be discouraged and give up. The powers that be do not want up to use our rights. And only by showing the fence riders that we are good kind people will they ever see us as normal. Never be afraid to answer questions. If they want to know if it is legal inform them of it. If they want to know how can they do it let them know. Keep up the good work and make it normal for people.
Good and accurate post, but very hard to follow because of a lack of "paragraphs".
 

kinggabby

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2013
Messages
84
Location
Duncan, Ok
Good and accurate post, but very hard to follow because of a lack of "paragraphs".
Sorry the study of the English language and punctuation were never my best studies. So we are lucky I spelled most words correctly. Plus it never helps when you have a cat get in way of your keyboard as you type. LoL
 

nothertexan

Newbie
Joined
Jan 5, 2016
Messages
4
Location
georgetown
heb sign requirements?

Ian, was this is the Austin area? I haven't really seen any in San Antonio except H.E.B. and the other well known 30.07 posters.

Does HEB have an exemption for not using contrasting colors and having the sign clearly visible? The one I was in has the signs low to the right where you cant read it with the doors open, no contrasting colors and usually trash cans or products partially obscuring the sign. If I only had somewhere else to shop. If a store is going to post it they should have the GUTS to put it at eye level and visible for all to see
 

qednick

Regular Member
Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
499
Location
Bandera, TX
Does HEB have an exemption for not using contrasting colors and having the sign clearly visible? The one I was in has the signs low to the right where you cant read it with the doors open, no contrasting colors and usually trash cans or products partially obscuring the sign. If I only had somewhere else to shop. If a store is going to post it they should have the GUTS to put it at eye level and visible for all to see

Their signage is terrible but the fact that it's there should be enough to make OC'ers think twice about entering. I would imagine, should you enter OC'ing, it would be to your defense that the signs are barely noticeable, provided you leave as soon as you're asked to. If you're actually cited, it would certainly be a defense because the signs are not conspicuous.

Read a news article online this morning about the number of phone calls TX LE have received about OC so far since Jan 1st. Only case cited was one call where someone had called 911 from within an H.E.B. due to seeing an OC'er. Apparently, the OC'er left without incident.
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Messages
3,348
Location
northern wis
Does HEB have an exemption for not using contrasting colors and having the sign clearly visible? The one I was in has the signs low to the right where you cant read it with the doors open, no contrasting colors and usually trash cans or products partially obscuring the sign. If I only had somewhere else to shop. If a store is going to post it they should have the GUTS to put it at eye level and visible for all to see

Here's some good signage information. Pictures at the site

http://www.gunwatch.blogspot.com/2015/12/tx-gun-free-wall-of-text-required-to.html

When Texas passed the shall issue concealed carry law in 1995, part of the deal concerned how people would be notified that a business did not allow concealed carry on the premises. A compromise was worked out that an entity that chose not to allow concealed carry on its premises was required to post a sign on all entrances, clearly showing people entering, that concealed carry was not allowed. The sign had to be large and highly visible, in both English and Spanish. The letters had to be at least one inch tall. An example of the "30.06" sign is shown below. 30.06 comes from the statute that requires the sign. It takes up about one half of a door space.
 

nothertexan

Newbie
Joined
Jan 5, 2016
Messages
4
Location
georgetown
Their signage is terrible but the fact that it's there should be enough to make OC'ers think twice about entering. I would imagine, should you enter OC'ing, it would be to your defense that the signs are barely noticeable, provided you leave as soon as you're asked to. If you're actually cited, it would certainly be a defense because the signs are not conspicuous.

Read a news article online this morning about the number of phone calls TX LE have received about OC so far since Jan 1st. Only case cited was one call where someone had called 911 from within an H.E.B. due to seeing an OC'er. Apparently, the OC'er left without incident.

or simply apologize back out the door and untuck my shirt voila! concealed. carry on, thank you. this is just to demonstrate how stupid the fears of OC are. The guns are there, does not seeing them make them go away? I guess if you don't look under the bed you don't see the dust bunnies so they don't exist.
 

qednick

Regular Member
Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
499
Location
Bandera, TX
or simply apologize back out the door and untuck my shirt voila! concealed. carry on, thank you. this is just to demonstrate how stupid the fears of OC are. The guns are there, does not seeing them make them go away? I guess if you don't look under the bed you don't see the dust bunnies so they don't exist.

Yup! Out of sight, out of mind. Saves the bed wetters money on diapers.
 
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