Take it easy, guys

[ixtow]

They reinforce the crazy-nutjob-in-camo-with-an-AK47 stereotype.

Hey....

 

[j4l]

In reading some of these posts, I’m seeing one common problem. Our opponents are being described as “cowards”, and “traitors” who’re working to dupe the “willing slaves” of Florida into accepting laws that we think are wrong.

What’s missing is the fact that our opponents see us as dupes of the NRA (or if you say the NRA has failed us, something much worse) who are endangering the citizens of Florida, especially the children. We know this is nonsense, but they believe it. When a few gun owners call them names and make threats, they become even more convinced they’re right and we’re all dangerous loonies.

I’m not saying we can convince them of our point of view by talking nice. I’m not saying we should ignore them when they insult us. But all the rants are counterproductive. They reinforce the crazy-nutjob-in-camo-with-an-AK47 stereotype.

We often read, “An armed society is a polite society”. That may be true. But who wants to arm people who’ve demonstrated that they’re incapable of being polite? Who wants to arm angry, threatening people?

Tell your politicians you think they’re wrong if they vote for laws you disagree with. Tell them you’ll support their opponent. Do it politely. Let them see you’re a civilized, reasonable voter. Otherwise, they’ll just ignore you at best and go out of their way to screw you at worst.

Take it easy.

Those folks have been well-informed of what we were after,and why.They were informed politely,and through proper channels, by defty diplomatic -type folks.
When still our servants began to waver and drift from the correct path, they were sent flowery, touchy-feely type letters from their masters attempting to gently nudge them away from the abyss, and back unto the path..
When this failed,the masters resorted to begging and grovelling on their knees,with no positive result.
Any nonsense of stereotypical gun-nuts is a fabrication on their part, and an excuse-a scapegoat. A fantasy.
And since when should the Masters have to grovel and beg their Servants for the services they are expected to provide?

 

[PT111]

I am not in FL but I see the same type of thing going on in just about every state. In FL there are 40 Senators and 120 Representatives. The means to get anything passed it takes at least 21 Sen. and 61 Rep. voting in favor of it. One, two or even 10 fightning for us cannot do it no matter how hard they try. They will need additional votes. When something fails we want to take it out on the very one that supported us for not trying hard enough but what did we do to help him? We sent hate mail to everyone telling them how they had screwed up, we threaten to throw them out we exhibit the exact same tendencies that they had about us prior to the vote. What we wind up doing is eroding any support that we had before the vote. Just think that if you felt you had done everything you could and for that you received hate mail, threats and protests wanting you thrown out, would you try to help that group again?

We need to continue to support those that tried to help. They are not the enemy. They may have made some mistakes and we can correct those. It takes a majority to get a bill passed and we have to get that majority and by turning on what help we have already will not get us closer to the majority. If we have 5 Sen. showing support then we need 16 more. Thise 5 can offer amendments, filibusters and anything else but until 16 more agree it won't do any good.

 

[firedog]

I am not in FL but I see the same type of thing going on in just about every state. In FL there are 40 Senators and 120 Representatives. The means to get anything passed it takes at least 21 Sen. and 61 Rep. voting in favor of it. One, two or even 10 fightning for us cannot do it no matter how hard they try. They will need additional votes. When something fails we want to take it out on the very one that supported us for not trying hard enough but what did we do to help him? We sent hate mail to everyone telling them how they had screwed up, we threaten to throw them out we exhibit the exact same tendencies that they had about us prior to the vote. What we wind up doing is eroding any support that we had before the vote. Just think that if you felt you had done everything you could and for that you received hate mail, threats and protests wanting you thrown out, would you try to help that group again?

We need to continue to support those that tried to help. They are not the enemy. They may have made some mistakes and we can correct those. It takes a majority to get a bill passed and we have to get that majority and by turning on what help we have already will not get us closer to the majority. If we have 5 Sen. showing support then we need 16 more. Thise 5 can offer amendments, filibusters and anything else but until 16 more agree it won't do any good.

I would concur with you on this had it not been for the fraud perpetrated (NRA/Evers) from the beginning. They titled the bill “Open Carry” and it is only now that see it was never intended to be “Open Carry”. The open carry issue was a carrot placed in the bill to drum up support for the bill from people like us only to drop it in the final hour.

When you have a senator sitting on a committee say “I’m going to support it in committee but not on the floor” he might as well have said “I will support it as soon as you remove open carry like you promised”. Then we have the bill’s sponsor say “this is no longer an open carry bill”, that is just another indication of their original intent. If they decided it was no longer an open carry bill they should have killed the entire thing. The tidbits that passed in the final bill are minuscule.

I don’t know about anyone else but that is how I am reading it between the lines.

 

[j4l]

I am not in FL but I see the same type of thing going on in just about every state. In FL there are 40 Senators and 120 Representatives. The means to get anything passed it takes at least 21 Sen. and 61 Rep. voting in favor of it. One, two or even 10 fightning for us cannot do it no matter how hard they try. They will need additional votes. When something fails we want to take it out on the very one that supported us for not trying hard enough but what did we do to help him? We sent hate mail to everyone telling them how they had screwed up, we threaten to throw them out we exhibit the exact same tendencies that they had about us prior to the vote. What we wind up doing is eroding any support that we had before the vote. Just think that if you felt you had done everything you could and for that you received hate mail, threats and protests wanting you thrown out, would you try to help that group again?

We need to continue to support those that tried to help. They are not the enemy. They may have made some mistakes and we can correct those. It takes a majority to get a bill passed and we have to get that majority and by turning on what help we have already will not get us closer to the majority. If we have 5 Sen. showing support then we need 16 more. Thise 5 can offer amendments, filibusters and anything else but until 16 more agree it won't do any good.

Well, you make 2 of my points for me rather well. But you mistake the other.
In the case of this bill, one particular foe took a pen and completely reversed what we were after with one line's ammendment.
Now, these "supportive" or "allied" Senators, supposedly in our favor,sat there and watched..thumbs securely retained in their backsides,while this happened.
Im not seeing much evidence of a single one of them standing up and saying "err.no that's not quiet what we're here for" and opposing that.
(if im wrong on that, and somehow missing something-by all means show me where and how.Post it)Further, it went on to a reading and a vote.

Look at the list of all the YES votes FOR the ammended version.
How-if those are our supportive Senators,do we accept that, and still consider them someone to count on? With "friends" like that.....you know the saying.
"done everything they could" -by my standard, would have involved at least some oppostion to that thing being ammended-at all- and,failing that, a loud,clear NO vote on allowing it to go forward.

Not a single one of those folks can-today-claim to have not known we would be furious about allowing the bill to be ammended as it was. It was attempted once or twice before-earlier in the process. We all spoke out loudy against it, and it was taken back out, the original version restored.But, it turns out now, that this was just for show- to shut us up for a few more days. When the final day came- they pulled their fast one, and reversed course on us at the last minute.
I dont know about you, but to me, that's called betrayal.

 

[firedog]

Well, you make 2 of my points for me rather well. But you mistake the other.
In the case of this bill, one particular foe took a pen and completely reversed what we were after with one line's ammendment.
Now, these "supportive" or "allied" Senators, supposedly in our favor,sat there and watched..thumbs securely retained in their backsides,while this happened.
Im not seeing much evidence of a single one of them standing up and saying "err.no that's not quiet what we're here for" and opposing that.
(if im wrong on that, and somehow missing something-by all means show me where and how.Post it)Further, it went on to a reading and a vote.

Look at the list of all the YES votes FOR the ammended version.
How-if those are our supportive Senators,do we accept that, and still consider them someone to count on? With "friends" like that.....you know the saying.
"done everything they could" -by my standard, would have involved at least some oppostion to that thing being ammended-at all- and,failing that, a loud,clear NO vote on allowing it to go forward.

Not a single one of those folks can-today-claim to have not known we would be furious about allowing the bill to be ammended as it was. It was attempted once or twice before-earlier in the process. We all spoke out loudy against it, and it was taken back out, the original version restored.But, it turns out now, that this was just for show- to shut us up for a few more days. When the final day came- they pulled their fast one, and reversed course on us at the last minute.
I dont know about you, but to me, that's called betrayal.

j4l, I think you and I are the only ones that see it that way. I for the life of me do not understand how people could see it any other way. If these two bills are not killed and they get the Gov's signature, open carry will not be visited again for a very long time.

What other gun issues will be address in the coming session. They got the city/county one through, albeit only $5g's. I'm not sure about the doctors bill but I think it went through. Now they've gotten the long gun issue solved, the accidental exposure BS through so what else is there of any significance? Open carry as a stand alone bill will never make it out of committee and I don’t believe it would ever be introduced.

We have missed our opportunity for a very long time. Most likely another 24 years.

 

[j4l]

j4l, I think you and I are the only ones that see it that way. I for the life of me do not understand how people could see it any other way. If these two bills are not killed and they get the Gov's signature, open carry will not be visited again for a very long time.

What other gun issues will be address in the coming session. They got the city/county one through, albeit only $5g's. I'm not sure about the doctors bill but I think it went through. Now they've gotten the long gun issue solved, the accidental exposure BS through so what else is there of any significance? Open carry as a stand alone bill will never make it out of committee and I don’t believe it would ever be introduced.

We have missed our opportunity for a very long time. Most likely another 24 years.

Concur.But you know what I think it boils down to? The Sheeple Principle.
People have been so utterly brain-washed into thinking that only 2 particular Parties can run our local/state/federal governments. Even after nearly 100 years of both of those parties shafting their followers/voters year after year after year after year.
The people get bent over and plundered repeatedly. But,having the option that many nations still lack,to CHANGE who's shafting them, what do they do?
They continue to adhere to,support,campaign for, donate their $$ to, and ulitmately vote in favor of, the same rapists-again and again. Why?
We could chalk it up to Natural Selection,but that cant explain it all.

You, me and the next guy-in this and a million other forums for a million other causes- spend hours upon hours griping about the "system".We speak direct, plain, blunt english to one another in our debates/discussions. We respect-even if we disagree with-one another,more often than not-that plain,direct,blunt language.
Yet we cant seem to bring ourselves to elect folks who are willing to be direct,blunt, plain and have any kind of principles that we would prefer they had.
Why? This I simply cannot get my head around.
The only thing I can compare it to is the syndrome most often suffered by battered/abused wives. The ones cops respond to Domestic Violence calls about.

The women who are beaten half to death on a regular,repeated basis,but when provided the chance to change their circumstance,fold,cave-in and whimper off in the corner muttering nonsense like "well,it was my own fault.." or "well,I know he loves me, I know he didnt meant to..." and the like. This political version is no different.

This nonsense of continuing to lack the balls to propose as candidates, support and VOTE ON candidates who will have the balls, the spine, the principles,and the determination to do what's in their own-and the people's interests,is going to keep us enslaved for as long as I can see. Unless or until people finally wake the f ck up and do what's needed.Make the change. Make the stand.
Frankly,Im lacking a whole heck of a lot of faith in my fellow citizens to ever get there.