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So much for "peaceful protests"

MSG Laigaie

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see this brilliantanto ?
When I saw this young man I thought he was being sarcastic......I may have been hasty in my evaluation. Funny enough to make it on my OC fazeboog.



You Madam are a *******!

Hmmmmm........quite a vocabulary. A very long time ago, when I was in dive school, My Chief told me that profanity is the result of a poor education.
 

davidmcbeth

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Now being from the south side of chgo ... peaceful = piece full of my fist up aside your head. Peacefull, see?

See, these people don't view this as an isolated incident.

Why not? You read the news right? We know why not.

I think Grape went over there to moderate. All will be in order soon.
 
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Drytchnath

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Now being from the south side of chgo ... peaceful = piece full of my fist up aside your head. Peacefull, see?

See, these people don't view this as an isolated incident.

Why not? You read the news right? We know why not.

I think Grape went over there to moderate. All will be in order soon.


So you are saying it's not an isolated incident that a man gets gunned down by police while committing a felony? That makes me feel safer to go out and about.

Mike Brown is not a good case to make change. The only argument that is valid is the police escalated the situation very quickly and perhaps unnecessarily. Protest that and demand a change, but I am simply tired of the protesters trying to paint Mike Brown as a victim.

I do agree with WalkingWolf that Darren Wilson wasn't acting intelligently when he attempted to confront two suspects by himself, but then again some LEOs get a bit of a god complex.
 

The Truth

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So you are saying it's not an isolated incident that a man gets gunned down by police while committing a felony? That makes me feel safer to go out and about.

Mike Brown is not a good case to make change. The only argument that is valid is the police escalated the situation very quickly and perhaps unnecessarily. Protest that and demand a change, but I am simply tired of the protesters trying to paint Mike Brown as a victim.

I do agree with WalkingWolf that Darren Wilson wasn't acting intelligently when he attempted to confront two suspects by himself, but then again some LEOs get a bit of a god complex.

IMO you are implying that you think DW had "a bit of a god complex." I agree, but I would disagree in this case that MB was not a victim given your implication.
 

davidmcbeth

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So you are saying it's not an isolated incident that a man gets gunned down by police while committing a felony? That makes me feel safer to go out and about.

Mike Brown is not a good case to make change
. The only argument that is valid is the police escalated the situation very quickly and perhaps unnecessarily. Protest that and demand a change, but I am simply tired of the protesters trying to paint Mike Brown as a victim.

I do agree with WalkingWolf that Darren Wilson wasn't acting intelligently when he attempted to confront two suspects by himself, but then again some LEOs get a bit of a god complex.

It appears that Brown was not a good case to me as well .. but after time and time again and continuing today, its understandable to me why it became an issue of such magnitude. The protests go beyond just Brown.
 

Drytchnath

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IMO you are implying that you think DW had "a bit of a god complex." I agree, but I would disagree in this case that MB was not a victim given your implication.

I would say that MB was a victim of his own actions, not those of DW. If we decide to accept the evidence as it was presented, and I'll admit I haven't gone into beyond that, then DW was in the right to shoot. No matter what DW did to put himself in that situation, or what people think would be common sense that he should have done, he still did not force MB to attack him. Of all the choices MB could have made that day, he chose one of the surest ways to end in a violent death.

You lay in the bed you make, you reap what you sow, yada yada yada.

It seems to me that if we start pointing out how someone could have behaved differently so that they wouldn't have been in a self-defense shooting situation and calling people like MB 'victims', then you seriously start undermining the right to self defense and open the true victims up to a 51% civil suit. As an adult MB was responsible for his own actions, and DW was doing his job even if he could have handled it better. Hindsight is always 20/20. It's always possible if more unlikely that MB would have made the same decision if there had been two cops present. The 'ifs' and 'buts' are endless in situations like these.
 

Drytchnath

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It appears that Brown was not a good case to me as well .. but after time and time again and continuing today, its understandable to me why it became an issue of such magnitude. The protests go beyond just Brown.

Yet by everyone focusing on Brown they ensure that the real issues aren't addressed. Two of the biggest issues to me are the leadership in the local PDs and the disparity between ethnic groups in local LEOs.

I would be able to get behind protests for a more thorough investigation for how the Furgeson PD handled the situation, to include the initial investigation when the body was in the street for so long and all the random leaks. Then, if it's warranted (which I'm sure it would be) fire those responsible.

The preponderance of white officers in the area is much harder to address. I would like to see a spreadsheet of the ethnic background of qualified applicants to Furgeson PD. I wouldn't be surprised if that answered this question. To my knowledge you have to dish out your own money to go to a private academy. I know the City of St. Louis has their own academy, not sure if it's all expenses paid, but they do require 30 hours college credit. It's simply not easy for the lower income to get the accreditation. If I'm wrong on any of that, someone please correct me.
 

OC for ME

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I would say that MB was a victim of his own actions, not those of DW. If we decide to accept the evidence as it was presented, and I'll admit I haven't gone into beyond that, then DW was in the right to shoot. No matter what DW did to put himself in that situation, or what people think would be common sense that he should have done, he still did not force MB to attack him. Of all the choices MB could have made that day, he chose one of the surest ways to end in a violent death.

You lay in the bed you make, you reap what you sow, yada yada yada.

It seems to me that if we start pointing out how someone could have behaved differently so that they wouldn't have been in a self-defense shooting situation and calling people like MB 'victims', then you seriously start undermining the right to self defense and open the true victims up to a 51% civil suit. As an adult MB was responsible for his own actions, and DW was doing his job even if he could have handled it better. Hindsight is always 20/20. It's always possible if more unlikely that MB would have made the same decision if there had been two cops present. The 'ifs' and 'buts' are endless in situations like these.
DW is a trained professional and should have acted differently. Your assessment underscores the issue nicely. Cops are allowed to screw up and get away with it. Citizens, not so much. Citizens always deserve the benefit of the doubt because we, by definition, are not trained professionals and as such the screwing up we do must be see in the most favorable light to us, not LE.

Yet by everyone focusing on Brown they ensure that the real issues aren't addressed. Two of the biggest issues to me are the leadership in the local PDs and the disparity between ethnic groups in local LEOs.

I would be able to get behind protests for a more thorough investigation for how the Furgeson PD handled the situation, to include the initial investigation when the body was in the street for so long and all the random leaks. Then, if it's warranted (which I'm sure it would be) fire those responsible.

The preponderance of white officers in the area is much harder to address. I would like to see a spreadsheet of the ethnic background of qualified applicants to Furgeson PD. I wouldn't be surprised if that answered this question. To my knowledge you have to dish out your own money to go to a private academy. I know the City of St. Louis has their own academy, not sure if it's all expenses paid, but they do require 30 hours college credit. It's simply not easy for the lower income to get the accreditation. If I'm wrong on any of that, someone please correct me.
The answers to these questions were pretty much known a week after the incident. I'll summarize: If no minority cops apply, according to FPD spokesmen at the time...well, there ya go.

Training and protocols. If a cop follows his training and department protocols DW may not have had to fight for his life. Me, not being a cop, would have stepped on the gas and came back later. I'm not gunna take a whuppin from a dud who has 100 lbs on me when I'm in a 8K lb vehicle.

Hindsight is 20/20 and DW made just about every bad decision a cop could make leading up to the shots that killed MB...according to the views of the cops I know.

YMMV.
 

WalkingWolf

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Training and protocols. If a cop follows his training and department protocols DW may not have had to fight for his life. Me, not being a cop, would have stepped on the gas and came back later. I'm not gunna take a whuppin from a dud who has 100 lbs on me when I'm in a 8K lb vehicle.

^^This
 

Saxxon

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That photo has made a lot of rounds, I figured it was photoshopped.

I also have to give great credit to the artist that did so, it was brilliant. Certainly the original miscreant got embarassed.

Personally, while DW might have done some things differently in handling the dangerous felon, when he first came upon him he only tried to get them to move out of the street. It wasn't until the encounter began to unfold that he realized he had the robbery suspect on hand, and as a cop I would expect him to affect an arrest, not necessarily waiting for a battalion of the National Guard to arrive to back him up. He carries a gun to defend himself from violent felons if the need arises. This time, it rose.

MB was the actor who decided to commit a crime (robbery), to commit another crime (assault) to get away with the first. His actions resulted in his death. I don't fault the officer for firing at what was a clear threat, the officer does certainly not have a duty to retreat just because a person is violent - his job is to handle violent people and remove the dangerous from the streets for processing by the courts. He did his job, maybe not flawlessly, but well enough. MB has himself to blame for his demise.

*Pants Up, Don't Loot!*
 
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WalkingWolf

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Darren Wilson is an idiot who endangered himself and the responding officers!

There will always be a criminal, that does not justify being an idiot and disregarding proper procedure to make a felony arrest. He is lucky to be alive, and he did not cost other officers injury or their lives.

Just what do you think MB would have done with his gun when backup arrived? DW was a split second from getting killed and a minute from getting others killed. People who want to pin a medal on this moron are not any brighter.
 

Richieg150

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He carries a gun to defend himself from violent felons if the need arises. This time, it rose.

MB was the actor who decided to commit a crime (robbery), to commit another crime (assault) to get away with the first. His actions resulted in his death. I don't fault the officer for firing at what was a clear threat, the officer does certainly not have a duty to retreat just because a person is violent - his job is to handle violent people and remove the dangerous from the streets for processing by the courts. He did his job, maybe not flawlessly, but well enough. MB has himself to blame for his demise.

*Pants Up, Don't Loot!*

Agree 100%, MB's actions resulted in his demise. Put the blame where it started and belongs.
 

marshaul

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So, basically, no amount of provocation nullifies the cops' right of self-defense. But a lowly citizen ought to be considered in provocation (and so forfeiting his right of self-defense) for asking chair-throwing women in McDonalds to calm down.

Nope, no double standard.

The job of cops is to collect revenue, not keep "dangerous people of the street". If they can't do it professionally and with restraint, they should be barred from public service for life.

**** hero worship.
 
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davidmcbeth

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So, basically, no amount of provocation nullifies the cops' right of self-defense. But a lowly citizen ought to be considered in provocation (and so forfeiting his right of self-defense) for asking chair-throwing women in McDonalds to calm down.

Nope, no double standard.

The job of cops is to collect revenue, not keep "dangerous people of the street". If they can't do it professionally and with restraint, they should be barred from public service for life.

**** hero worship.

Interesting concept "cop's self defense right" .. he is an employee during his work time, can an employer take away your self defense rights? A thought to ponder. I've never seen a wrongful discharge case for someone who has been fired for protecting himself; I think of all the 7-11 type clerks fired for doing just that.
 

marshaul

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Interesting concept "cop's self defense right" .. he is an employee during his work time, can an employer take away your self defense rights? A thought to ponder. I've never seen a wrongful discharge case for someone who has been fired for protecting himself; I think of all the 7-11 type clerks fired for doing just that.

Are you asking me, or all the incipient cop apologists out there?

I would bar DW from public service not for his act of self-defense, but for his unprofessional acts of provocation which preceded it.
 
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