Doug Huffman
Banned
imported post
LEO 229 wrote:
LMAO!
LEO 229 wrote:
LMAO!
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Rights - Law professor speaks on exercising 5th amend rights
- Thread starter Mike
- Start date
Sheriff
Regular Member
imported post
Legba wrote:
Most people have been led to believe that if you don't consent to a search, the police will find something to arrest you for, and proceed with their search thereafter. Some have been led to believe they will make you wait on the side of the road while they go get a search warrant. Some are led tobelieve the policedog "alerted" on something and they now have enough togo and geta search warrant, "so you might as well give us permission to search and save us both time!". And some citizens simply claim they did NOT consent to search and the police did it anyway.
I am a firm believer that every traffic stop in America should be on video. Every traffis stop! I don't care how large or how small the department is. If the department doesn't have the money for equipment, federal grants should purchase the equipment.
This is a video link where a cop totally loses it. The cop claims he will make up an excuse to arrest the young driver.
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/19/1961.asp
The transcript of the stop is here....
http://forums.furthurnet.org/viewtopic.php?t=20482&sid=dc89d6df588386aa080b9e694115ece5
Legba wrote:
Most people have been led to believe that if you don't consent to a search, the police will find something to arrest you for, and proceed with their search thereafter. Some have been led to believe they will make you wait on the side of the road while they go get a search warrant. Some are led tobelieve the policedog "alerted" on something and they now have enough togo and geta search warrant, "so you might as well give us permission to search and save us both time!". And some citizens simply claim they did NOT consent to search and the police did it anyway.
I am a firm believer that every traffic stop in America should be on video. Every traffis stop! I don't care how large or how small the department is. If the department doesn't have the money for equipment, federal grants should purchase the equipment.
This is a video link where a cop totally loses it. The cop claims he will make up an excuse to arrest the young driver.
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/19/1961.asp
The transcript of the stop is here....
http://forums.furthurnet.org/viewtopic.php?t=20482&sid=dc89d6df588386aa080b9e694115ece5
Sheriff
Regular Member
imported post
LEO 229 wrote:
LEO 229 wrote:
Hey, trust me on this.... I simply don't care if this newfangled rookie keeps giving the entire professiona black eye. Feel free to keep on defending them as much as you like. Sooner or later one of them will get you tied up in a multi-million dollar lawsuit. I'm willing to bet on it.
imported post
Sheriff wrote:
You are allegedly a retired LEO that appears to be very disgruntled with law enforcement as a whole.
How you could do almost 30 years and not quit sooner is beyond me. For someone to stayalmost 10 years beyond the period hecould have retired tells me it must not have been as bad as you want us to believe.
Must be a different way of life where you worked. I have seen nothing but very professional people trying to do their best as they hit the streets. Do all rookies start out hot and run fast? Sure!! Exciting job!!
As with anything... society, classmates, friends, and even this board.... there is ALWAYS going to be one that is bad. You have focused on that one bad one and want everyone to believe this is the norm and the standard for all that serve.
I am not defending anyone... that seems to be the common statement here. I am giving my point of view and opinion.I have not beenprovided with a crime or specific complaint that was done by the rookie to even offer a defence.
Sheriff wrote:
Trust you? I think not.LEO 229 wrote:Hey, trust me on this.... I simply don't care if this newfangled rookie keeps giving the entire professiona black eye. Feel free to keep on defending them as much as you like. Sooner or later one of them will get you tied up in a multi-million dollar lawsuit. I'm willing to bet on it.
You are allegedly a retired LEO that appears to be very disgruntled with law enforcement as a whole.
How you could do almost 30 years and not quit sooner is beyond me. For someone to stayalmost 10 years beyond the period hecould have retired tells me it must not have been as bad as you want us to believe.
Must be a different way of life where you worked. I have seen nothing but very professional people trying to do their best as they hit the streets. Do all rookies start out hot and run fast? Sure!! Exciting job!!
As with anything... society, classmates, friends, and even this board.... there is ALWAYS going to be one that is bad. You have focused on that one bad one and want everyone to believe this is the norm and the standard for all that serve.
I am not defending anyone... that seems to be the common statement here. I am giving my point of view and opinion.I have not beenprovided with a crime or specific complaint that was done by the rookie to even offer a defence.
sedjester
Regular Member
imported post
It's all about risk management. If I keep talking to the officer I run the risk of having what I say used against me, even if it is just a misunderstanding or a misquote on my part. I have no way of knowing what is going through the officer's mind or what their motives are. The only sane thing is for me to go on the assumption that what I say 'will' be used against me at some point, either to give the officer a reason to arrest me (if there isn't one already) or more ammunition to use against me in court.
It would be nice to be able to tell exactly when to shut up when talking with an officer so that I would be able to have a polite conversation without risking my freedom. But I think most people in a stressful situation will have no clue as to when to shut up, so it is perhaps best to keep quiet from the get go (aside from giving necessary information, name and address, and ID if required).
It's all about risk management. If I keep talking to the officer I run the risk of having what I say used against me, even if it is just a misunderstanding or a misquote on my part. I have no way of knowing what is going through the officer's mind or what their motives are. The only sane thing is for me to go on the assumption that what I say 'will' be used against me at some point, either to give the officer a reason to arrest me (if there isn't one already) or more ammunition to use against me in court.
It would be nice to be able to tell exactly when to shut up when talking with an officer so that I would be able to have a polite conversation without risking my freedom. But I think most people in a stressful situation will have no clue as to when to shut up, so it is perhaps best to keep quiet from the get go (aside from giving necessary information, name and address, and ID if required).
Sheriff
Regular Member
imported post
LEO 229 wrote:
The worst video I've ever seen was out of North Carolina. I am sure I won't find a link right now unfortuneately, it happenedseveral years ago. A deputy sheriff yells for help, carload of mexicans he has stopped. When his backup gets there, a North Carolina trooper, the trooper's dash cam videos the deputy sheriff beating the handcuffed suspects with a batonwhile they are all laying face down and handcuffed. The deputy had totally gone insane. Everybody felt the trooper would destroy the tape and cover for the deputy. He didn't. The deputy sheriff was rightfully terminated for police brutality.
I can burp these true tales of law enforcement out by the thousands if you want a 39 page reply posted here.
LEO 229 wrote:
Well, you and I disagree on my opinion too, eh? I have made it very clear that my disgust is with this newfangled rookie that tramples all over people's Constitutional rights on a daily basis. Did you view the video link I posted up above? It was filmed by the driver during a traffic stop. You think it's OK to threaten people with lying on them and locking them up? quote: "I will make up nine things to arrest you for, son!" You want people to believe he is a very small minority of out-of-control police officers? There's thousands of videos out there like this. (The cop was eventually terminated)
The worst video I've ever seen was out of North Carolina. I am sure I won't find a link right now unfortuneately, it happenedseveral years ago. A deputy sheriff yells for help, carload of mexicans he has stopped. When his backup gets there, a North Carolina trooper, the trooper's dash cam videos the deputy sheriff beating the handcuffed suspects with a batonwhile they are all laying face down and handcuffed. The deputy had totally gone insane. Everybody felt the trooper would destroy the tape and cover for the deputy. He didn't. The deputy sheriff was rightfully terminated for police brutality.
I can burp these true tales of law enforcement out by the thousands if you want a 39 page reply posted here.
Sheriff
Regular Member
imported post
sedjester wrote:
The cop wouldn't let the driver shut up. He kept egging him on.
sedjester wrote:
Did you view the video link I posted above?
The cop wouldn't let the driver shut up. He kept egging him on.
icode
Regular Member
imported post
Sheriff wrote:
Sheriff wrote:
But that's only the ONE bad one:uhoh:LMAO!
Sheriff
Regular Member
imported post
LEO229, read this link....
http://www.badcopnews.com/2008/05/29/gypsy-cop-elkton-virginia-police-officer-rob-greer-arrested-and-fired-after-stalking-woman/
Tell me what you think. Is this guy in the small minority of bad apples too, or was he simply a cop who got caught doing his dirty deeds over and over and over? I can't even call this guy a rookie. He was old enough and should have known better. At one point he gave birth to a $22 million lawsuit. I suspect his chief and supervisors in Dayton were also named in the lawsuit.
Why did people keep hiring this bad apple? If you guys need help, I suspect he is looking for another police job.
By the way, believe it or not, www.badcopnews.com is a pretty interesting web site to read on a daily basis.
LEO229, read this link....
http://www.badcopnews.com/2008/05/29/gypsy-cop-elkton-virginia-police-officer-rob-greer-arrested-and-fired-after-stalking-woman/
Tell me what you think. Is this guy in the small minority of bad apples too, or was he simply a cop who got caught doing his dirty deeds over and over and over? I can't even call this guy a rookie. He was old enough and should have known better. At one point he gave birth to a $22 million lawsuit. I suspect his chief and supervisors in Dayton were also named in the lawsuit.
Why did people keep hiring this bad apple? If you guys need help, I suspect he is looking for another police job.
By the way, believe it or not, www.badcopnews.com is a pretty interesting web site to read on a daily basis.
Sheriff
Regular Member
imported post
icode wrote:
icode wrote:
Yeah. And I have only one bridge left in Brooklyn for sale. You interested? :lol:
imported post
Sheriff wrote:
Should I start posting stories about cops being assaulted ormurdered by citizenswhile simply responding to a call?
I am sorry that cops are not paid much and this does not attract the best pool of candidates. All the really smart people are headed to the computer tech jobs where they can make a six figure salaryfor sitting on their butts.
Want better rookies? Offer more money. :lol:
It is a thankless job and you are accused of wrongdoing at the drop of a hat. When you do something good.. nobody cares!It almost never makes the news. But do something bad or questionable... front page story!! and national headlines!!
And for someone to WANT to read negative stories dailyabout cop incidents is disturbing. It has given you a poor outlook on life.
I will choose to be more positive and not join you in your negative daily indoctrination. :lol:
Edit: I took a peak and that site is absolutely, without a doubt, anti-law enforcement!!!
Knowing you visit the site daily tells me you are NOT a cop and you actually hate law enforcement.
But we have strayed off topic now.
Sheriff wrote:
One out of 900,000 cops. :?LEO229, read this link....
http://www.badcopnews.com/2008/05/29/gypsy-cop-elkton-virginia-police-officer-rob-greer-arrested-and-fired-after-stalking-woman/
Tell me what you think. Is this guy in the small minority of bad apples too, or was he simply a cop who got caught doing his dirty deeds over and over and over? I can't even call this guy a rookie. He was old enough and should have known better. At one point he gave birth to a $22 million lawsuit. I suspect his chief and supervisors in Dayton were also named in the lawsuit.
Why did people keep hiring this bad apple? If you guys need help, I suspect he is looking for another police job.
By the way, believe it or not, http://www.badcopnews.com is a pretty interesting web site to read on a daily basis.
Should I start posting stories about cops being assaulted ormurdered by citizenswhile simply responding to a call?
I am sorry that cops are not paid much and this does not attract the best pool of candidates. All the really smart people are headed to the computer tech jobs where they can make a six figure salaryfor sitting on their butts.
Want better rookies? Offer more money. :lol:
It is a thankless job and you are accused of wrongdoing at the drop of a hat. When you do something good.. nobody cares!It almost never makes the news. But do something bad or questionable... front page story!! and national headlines!!
And for someone to WANT to read negative stories dailyabout cop incidents is disturbing. It has given you a poor outlook on life.
I will choose to be more positive and not join you in your negative daily indoctrination. :lol:
Edit: I took a peak and that site is absolutely, without a doubt, anti-law enforcement!!!
Knowing you visit the site daily tells me you are NOT a cop and you actually hate law enforcement.
But we have strayed off topic now.
icode
Regular Member
imported post
LEO 229 wrote:
LEO 229 wrote:
More money???!!! Are you insane? They start around 54,000 a year here. That's pretty damn good money for a high school graduate with no experiance! More money - sheesh!Sheriff wrote:One out of 900,000 cops. :?LEO229, read this link....
http://www.badcopnews.com/2008/05/29/gypsy-cop-elkton-virginia-police-officer-rob-greer-arrested-and-fired-after-stalking-woman/
Tell me what you think. Is this guy in the small minority of bad apples too, or was he simply a cop who got caught doing his dirty deeds over and over and over? I can't even call this guy a rookie. He was old enough and should have known better. At one point he gave birth to a $22 million lawsuit. I suspect his chief and supervisors in Dayton were also named in the lawsuit.
Why did people keep hiring this bad apple? If you guys need help, I suspect he is looking for another police job.
By the way, believe it or not, http://www.badcopnews.com is a pretty interesting web site to read on a daily basis.
Should I start posting stories about cops being assaulted ormurdered by citizenswhile simply responding to a call?
I am sorry that cops are not paid much and this does not attract the best pool of candidates. All the really smart people are headed to the computer tech jobs where they can make a six figure salaryfor sitting on their butts.
Want better rookies? Offer more money. :lol:
It is a thankless job and you are accused of wrongdoing at the drop of a hat. When you do something good.. nobody cares!It almost never makes the news. But do something bad or questionable... front page story!! and national headlines!!
And for someone to WANT to read negative stories dailyabout cop incidents is disturbing. It has given you a poor outlook on life.
I will choose to be more positive and not join you in your negative daily indoctrination. :lol:
Sheriff
Regular Member
imported post
LEO 229 wrote:
LEO 229 wrote:
Reporting on police officers committing crimesagainst U S citizensis anti law enforcement? :lol:
imported post
I'm not sure about this theory about the bad press poisoning peoples' minds. I had no horror stories with the police until fairly recently, and it was a few bad city detectives and township cops who ruined it for me. I play these interactions by ear, and most of them are uneventful - I just got a cordial 'warning' ticket from a county guy for a traffic stop last week - but the "we'll get a warrant if you don't consent to a ransacking of your car/house/person" stuff just irks me to no end, and that is much more common than it used to be. I don't know why - just my experience.
-ljp
I'm not sure about this theory about the bad press poisoning peoples' minds. I had no horror stories with the police until fairly recently, and it was a few bad city detectives and township cops who ruined it for me. I play these interactions by ear, and most of them are uneventful - I just got a cordial 'warning' ticket from a county guy for a traffic stop last week - but the "we'll get a warrant if you don't consent to a ransacking of your car/house/person" stuff just irks me to no end, and that is much more common than it used to be. I don't know why - just my experience.
-ljp
Sheriff
Regular Member
imported post
icode wrote:
All cops use the dog and pony show of "more money" when defending bad cops. It's also self-serving of course. :lol:
The way I calculate it, adding up benefits and salary, rookies in LEO229's area start at about $65,000.
Annual Leave: Employees with less than three years of service earn 13 days of annual leave per year; between three and 15 years of service - 19 days per year; over 15 years of service - 26 days per year. Employees may accumulate up to 30 days of annual leave (up to 40 days after 10 years service).
Paid Holidays: There are 11 ½ paid holidays per year.
Sick Leave: Sick leave accrues at a rate of four hours per payroll period (13 days a year) and may accumulate without limit.
Health Insurance: County employees have the option of enrolling in a variety of health plans which are available in either individual, two party, or full family coverage.County contributes 85 percent of the cost for individual coverage and 75 percent of the cost for two party and family coverage in these health plans. Individual and family dental coverage is also available at group rates. Salary insurance and universal life dependent care, hospital confinement, medical spending, are other benefits offered to county employees. The cost of these plans is borne entirely by the employee.
Group Term Life Insurance: Employees eligible for benefits receive County-paid life insurance after six months of employment; this coverage is equal to their annual salary. Additional coverage of 1 or 4 times an employee's annual salary is available at age banded rates. Dependent coverage of $12,500 for a spouse/$6,250 for children or $6,250 for a spouse/$2,500 for children is available for an additional $2.50-$5.00 per month.
Deferred Compensation (Contributions and Earnings are tax deferred): You may contribute up to $14,000 per year. If you are over age 50, you may contribute an additional $4,000 (total $18,000) per year. Contributions must be earnings deducted from your paycheck.
Employees who have not contributed the maximum allowed by law may contribute additional funds if they have reached or are within four years of their normal retirement date. These catch-up provisions limit total contributions to $28,000 in 2005. The actual amount of additional contributions allowed is calculated by subtracting the total amount previosly deferred from the maximum amount allowed by law.
The dollar limits for contributions are increasing for 2006 as follows: Normal contribution: up to $15,000; including age 50 catch-up provision: up to $20,000; including catch-up within four years of retirement: $30,000.
Equipment: All uniforms and equipment are furnished by the Department.
CurrentPolice Salary Scales
(July 2007)
Police Officer $45,741 - $74,508
Police Officer First Class $52,734 - $77,914
Master Police Officer $70,516 - $81,632
Sergeant Police Officer $67,159 - $85,713
Shift Differential Pay: .90 for evening shift and 1.30 for midnights
icode wrote:
All cops use the dog and pony show of "more money" when defending bad cops. It's also self-serving of course. :lol:
The way I calculate it, adding up benefits and salary, rookies in LEO229's area start at about $65,000.
Annual Leave: Employees with less than three years of service earn 13 days of annual leave per year; between three and 15 years of service - 19 days per year; over 15 years of service - 26 days per year. Employees may accumulate up to 30 days of annual leave (up to 40 days after 10 years service).
Paid Holidays: There are 11 ½ paid holidays per year.
Sick Leave: Sick leave accrues at a rate of four hours per payroll period (13 days a year) and may accumulate without limit.
Health Insurance: County employees have the option of enrolling in a variety of health plans which are available in either individual, two party, or full family coverage.County contributes 85 percent of the cost for individual coverage and 75 percent of the cost for two party and family coverage in these health plans. Individual and family dental coverage is also available at group rates. Salary insurance and universal life dependent care, hospital confinement, medical spending, are other benefits offered to county employees. The cost of these plans is borne entirely by the employee.
Group Term Life Insurance: Employees eligible for benefits receive County-paid life insurance after six months of employment; this coverage is equal to their annual salary. Additional coverage of 1 or 4 times an employee's annual salary is available at age banded rates. Dependent coverage of $12,500 for a spouse/$6,250 for children or $6,250 for a spouse/$2,500 for children is available for an additional $2.50-$5.00 per month.
Deferred Compensation (Contributions and Earnings are tax deferred): You may contribute up to $14,000 per year. If you are over age 50, you may contribute an additional $4,000 (total $18,000) per year. Contributions must be earnings deducted from your paycheck.
Employees who have not contributed the maximum allowed by law may contribute additional funds if they have reached or are within four years of their normal retirement date. These catch-up provisions limit total contributions to $28,000 in 2005. The actual amount of additional contributions allowed is calculated by subtracting the total amount previosly deferred from the maximum amount allowed by law.
The dollar limits for contributions are increasing for 2006 as follows: Normal contribution: up to $15,000; including age 50 catch-up provision: up to $20,000; including catch-up within four years of retirement: $30,000.
Equipment: All uniforms and equipment are furnished by the Department.
CurrentPolice Salary Scales
(July 2007)
Police Officer $45,741 - $74,508
Police Officer First Class $52,734 - $77,914
Master Police Officer $70,516 - $81,632
Sergeant Police Officer $67,159 - $85,713
Shift Differential Pay: .90 for evening shift and 1.30 for midnights
imported post
Eleven and a half paid holidays a year? I can't even name 11 holidays. I get 4 off with pay, and 1 week vacation, which is to say that I work for a living (6 day weeks), and for less than the quoted rate. I do get to carry a gun and shoot people occasionally though. Welcome to America.
-ljp
Eleven and a half paid holidays a year? I can't even name 11 holidays. I get 4 off with pay, and 1 week vacation, which is to say that I work for a living (6 day weeks), and for less than the quoted rate. I do get to carry a gun and shoot people occasionally though. Welcome to America.
-ljp
deepdiver
Campaign Veteran
imported post
:quirky While I have seen evidence for the last 20 years that LEOs are more and more moving towards Judge Dredd in attitude, I still do not believe by any means that it is a majority of new, young, experienced or old LEOs who are that way. I do think it is a higher percentage than it was even 10 years ago. I do think that we as the citizens need to stop it now before it becomes a majority. I do think there is a long term risk if we do not get the State and it's parts (including LE) back under the control of the people and I think the still relatively few instances of LEO abuses is one of our warning siren that things are going the wrong direction.
Edit: Damn, I'm selling my business and moving to VA and becoming a cop. In this down market I'll make more money, have guaranteed pension, I get to carry a gun about anywhere in the US and I'm sure it will be better health care. There is NO reason to complain about that pay scale given the benefits.
:quirky While I have seen evidence for the last 20 years that LEOs are more and more moving towards Judge Dredd in attitude, I still do not believe by any means that it is a majority of new, young, experienced or old LEOs who are that way. I do think it is a higher percentage than it was even 10 years ago. I do think that we as the citizens need to stop it now before it becomes a majority. I do think there is a long term risk if we do not get the State and it's parts (including LE) back under the control of the people and I think the still relatively few instances of LEO abuses is one of our warning siren that things are going the wrong direction.
Edit: Damn, I'm selling my business and moving to VA and becoming a cop. In this down market I'll make more money, have guaranteed pension, I get to carry a gun about anywhere in the US and I'm sure it will be better health care. There is NO reason to complain about that pay scale given the benefits.
Sheriff
Regular Member
imported post
Legba wrote:
Where do you get to shoot people, and under what circumstances?
How many people have you shot in say, the last ten years?
How many died? How many survived?
Legba wrote:
Where do you get to shoot people, and under what circumstances?
How many people have you shot in say, the last ten years?
How many died? How many survived?
Sheriff
Regular Member
imported post
deepdiver wrote:
Keep in mind the scale I posted above doesn't even include the abundant overtime available everywhere after 9/11.
You notice LEO229 didn't mention any amounts & benefits when he said they don't get paid enough. Cops beg for a job, but once they get it all they do is whine about the salary.
deepdiver wrote:
Cops don't want you to know they actually make so much. :lol:
Keep in mind the scale I posted above doesn't even include the abundant overtime available everywhere after 9/11.
You notice LEO229 didn't mention any amounts & benefits when he said they don't get paid enough. Cops beg for a job, but once they get it all they do is whine about the salary.
imported post
Sheriff wrote:
Well, I carry at work (gun shop). I admit that this hasn't been a problem - zero body count to date. I was being a tad facetious, but it could come up.
I did accidentally/negligently hit someone with bird shot at long range when I was younger. I'm glad to say that the damage was limited to a ruined hairdo when she had to shake the shot out of her hair.
-ljp
Sheriff wrote:
Well, I carry at work (gun shop). I admit that this hasn't been a problem - zero body count to date. I was being a tad facetious, but it could come up.
I did accidentally/negligently hit someone with bird shot at long range when I was younger. I'm glad to say that the damage was limited to a ruined hairdo when she had to shake the shot out of her hair.
-ljp