Restoration of all rights of citizenship under persons convicted under Colorado law.

[luv_jeeps]

Kind of long, but (I think) interesting read. I only post this for the enlightment of others, and it does pertain to RC's statement of a persons rights per the CRS.

I'll throw in my experience from Colorado that dates back to 1981. (I was 15 years old)
In 1981 I was charged as a juvenile with reckless endangerment because of a richochet from a .22 caliber rifle that damaged a building. (I personally...at 15 years old, paid for the minor damage)

I ended up getting 1 year of probation, and was also told by the Judge at the time if I completed the probation successfully, my record would be cleared.
Fast forward to around 1994 or 1995. I successfully purchased my first handgun (92FS) from a friend of mine who was an FFL.
All things went through just fine and I took it home that day.

I continued with some additional purchases until 2003 and beyond.
I only mention 2003 because that is the year that Colorado passed the conceal carry and pre-emption law.
I applied for and was granted my carry permit in 2003, good for 5 years.
Made some additional purchases between 2003 and 2008 when the permit was up for renewal.
I filled out the stuff, paid the 50 bucks to renew my permit and away the paperwork went...Adams County where I reside.

As a treat to myself, a week or two later, I went to SW in Thornton to look at getting my first 1911.
Found a really nice Kimber with night sights and the Crimson Trace grips on it.
Filled out the 4473, and after about a half hour, it came back as 'delayed'
I figured that since I had just gotten my U.S. Citizenship (I was a Canuck) a month previous, maybe there was something going on there.
Called back everyday to check on status, and on the 3rd day, they told me that I was denied.

I was devastated and confused. WTF!!!!!!!
I immediately filed the paperwork with CBI to figure out what was going on and to have them send me the reason for the denial.
A week later I received the stuff from CBI that had my juvenile case listed from back in 1981.
What the heck? I had been purchasing stuff and getting approved by both CBI and FEDGOV(out of state rifle stuff) for a long time. Why the denial now?

I called the ADCO Sheriff's office and let them know what was going on, and that I had just submitted my renewal.
The police officer I spoke with told me (duh) that my current permit was now invalid.

I then started doing research on Mitchie (great resource for the CRS) and figured out that I had to:

1. Get my juvenile record expunged. (free.....no attorney required)
2. Refile the paperwork with ADCO for said permit.
3. Get ready for a fight with the Adams County Sheriff Department. (I had all the CRS statutes almost memorized by this point)

Filed the expungement stuff.....waited for court date in JeffCO and things were fine and everything was done. Got copies of everything from the clerk.

Called back ADCO about permit renewal, and was told that I now had to have a meeting with Sheriff Doug Darr himself to discuss whether or not I was a suitable candidate.
By this time, I had received all copies of the approved 4473's from the folks I buy stuff from, and had a huge folder of things ready for the meeting, which they delayed 3 or 4 times....hmmm.

Took the stuff in and had my meeting with Sheriff Darr (in one of my nice custom tailored suits) and walked out an hour later with my permit and no new fees at all. Took my mug for the permit, printed it and away I went.
My main point to the Sheriff was that if someone had done their damn job to begin with, I wouldn't have received that first 92FS, gotten things taken care of and we wouldn't be sitting in his conference room even having the conversation to begin with. I told hom that the CBI and others totally dropped the ball....for a bunch of years.

It seems to me that this should have been a non-starter to begin with based on RC's reading of the CRS as it was back then.

Sorry for the long post, but I hope it helps some folks down the road.

 

[Sig229]

Kind of long, but (I think) interesting read. I only post this for the enlightment of others, and it does pertain to RC's statement of a persons rights per the CRS.

I'll throw in my experience from Colorado that dates back to 1981. (I was 15 years old)
In 1981 I was charged as a juvenile with reckless endangerment because of a richochet from a .22 caliber rifle that damaged a building. (I personally...at 15 years old, paid for the minor damage)

I ended up getting 1 year of probation, and was also told by the Judge at the time if I completed the probation successfully, my record would be cleared.
Fast forward to around 1994 or 1995. I successfully purchased my first handgun (92FS) from a friend of mine who was an FFL.
All things went through just fine and I took it home that day.

I continued with some additional purchases until 2003 and beyond.
I only mention 2003 because that is the year that Colorado passed the conceal carry and pre-emption law.
I applied for and was granted my carry permit in 2003, good for 5 years.
Made some additional purchases between 2003 and 2008 when the permit was up for renewal.
I filled out the stuff, paid the 50 bucks to renew my permit and away the paperwork went...Adams County where I reside.

As a treat to myself, a week or two later, I went to SW in Thornton to look at getting my first 1911.
Found a really nice Kimber with night sights and the Crimson Trace grips on it.
Filled out the 4473, and after about a half hour, it came back as 'delayed'
I figured that since I had just gotten my U.S. Citizenship (I was a Canuck) a month previous, maybe there was something going on there.
Called back everyday to check on status, and on the 3rd day, they told me that I was denied.

I was devastated and confused. WTF!!!!!!!
I immediately filed the paperwork with CBI to figure out what was going on and to have them send me the reason for the denial.
A week later I received the stuff from CBI that had my juvenile case listed from back in 1981.
What the heck? I had been purchasing stuff and getting approved by both CBI and FEDGOV(out of state rifle stuff) for a long time. Why the denial now?

I called the ADCO Sheriff's office and let them know what was going on, and that I had just submitted my renewal.
The police officer I spoke with told me (duh) that my current permit was now invalid.

I then started doing research on Mitchie (great resource for the CRS) and figured out that I had to:

1. Get my juvenile record expunged. (free.....no attorney required)
2. Refile the paperwork with ADCO for said permit.
3. Get ready for a fight with the Adams County Sheriff Department. (I had all the CRS statutes almost memorized by this point)

Filed the expungement stuff.....waited for court date in JeffCO and things were fine and everything was done. Got copies of everything from the clerk.

Called back ADCO about permit renewal, and was told that I now had to have a meeting with Sheriff Doug Darr himself to discuss whether or not I was a suitable candidate.
By this time, I had received all copies of the approved 4473's from the folks I buy stuff from, and had a huge folder of things ready for the meeting, which they delayed 3 or 4 times....hmmm.

Took the stuff in and had my meeting with Sheriff Darr (in one of my nice custom tailored suits) and walked out an hour later with my permit and no new fees at all. Took my mug for the permit, printed it and away I went.
My main point to the Sheriff was that if someone had done their damn job to begin with, I wouldn't have received that first 92FS, gotten things taken care of and we wouldn't be sitting in his conference room even having the conversation to begin with. I told hom that the CBI and others totally dropped the ball....for a bunch of years.

It seems to me that this should have been a non-starter to begin with based on RC's reading of the CRS as it was back then.

Sorry for the long post, but I hope it helps some folks down the road.

I went through the exact same thing you did when I lived in CO.
Only I didnt get a happy conclusion like you did.
Since my Juvenile charge (never convicted) was from another state, and that state doesn't allow juvenile expungements I was screwed and the CBI did NOTHING to help me.


But the saddest part about it all was that a week earlier my transmission went up and the only way for me to afford getting it fixed so I could get to work was to get a loan at the pawn shop on a couple of my guns.
And one of those guns was the very first gun I had ever bought and it was very sentimental.

I never got that or the other gun in loan back either because CBI denied me.

Pisses me off at this very moment thinking about it.

Colorado was the only state that EVER gave me problems with purchasing. And I have lived in some very anti gun states.

After getting my transmission fixed and saved up some money I moved out of Colorado.
Hell with 'em.

 

[JamesB]

I went through the exact same thing you did when I lived in CO.
Only I didnt get a happy conclusion like you did.
Since my Juvenile charge (never convicted) was from another state, and that state doesn't allow juvenile expungements I was screwed and the CBI did NOTHING to help me.


But the saddest part about it all was that a week earlier my transmission went up and the only way for me to afford getting it fixed so I could get to work was to get a loan at the pawn shop on a couple of my guns.
And one of those guns was the very first gun I had ever bought and it was very sentimental.

I never got that or the other gun in loan back either because CBI denied me.

Pisses me off at this very moment thinking about it.

Colorado was the only state that EVER gave me problems with purchasing. And I have lived in some very anti gun states.

After getting my transmission fixed and saved up some money I moved out of Colorado.
Hell with 'em.

Not to mention that they shouldn't have even had to do a CBI check for you to retrieve your gun from the pawn shop. That is not a sale. It is getting your stuff back. It is removing the lein that has been placed upon your stuff.
Then again, the number of background checks I've had to go through to get my stuff back from the police evidence room makes even less sense. That is not a sale either, there isn't even any money changing hands. They do not have any statutory authority to perform a check just for the fun of it, there must be a sale...
whatever.

Must be nice to have a shiny badge so you don't have to follow the rules.

 

[rushcreek2]

This is interesting stuff. I'm going to have to sit back, and try to digest the previous commentary.

Folks we are on the right track. The Colorado Bureau of Investigation is NOT FOLLOWING COLORADO LAW.

I contacted the C.B.I. background check section in 2008 regarding this restoration of the firearm right under Colorado law, and I was told that they " ....do not report as "prohibited persons". They claimed that they merely report the existence of a record. That was a LIE at that time, and continues to be a LIE. C.B.I. personnel know perfectly well what they are doing. As I said court action is very much needed to educate C.B.I. regarding Colorado law.

 

[rushcreek2]

Article VII, Section 10 of the Colorado Constitution is unambiguous. Any person convicted of a criminal offense under Colorado law has their right to VOTE, as well as ALL of their rights of citizenship restored, WITHOUT EXCEPTION upon completion of their sentence-period.

Colorado case law recognizes this fact, and further -the provisions of CRS 18-12-108 are presumed to be constitutional. Therefore the provisions of CRS 18-12-108 do not apply unless the State can prove that the previous offender having completed their sentence possessed a firearm for purposes other than the constitutionally protected right to defend their home, person, or property.

Unfortunately, as I have previously mentioned, policies in place within law enforcement agencies in Colorado will result in a CRS 18-12-108 previous offender being "racked-up", and run through the CJ "grist-mill". The net result is that a prudent previous offender will probably confine their firearm possession to home-defense needs rather than risk being arrested, posting bail, and having to endure a year's worth of court appearances. This is wrong. That does not equate to ALL RIGHT OF CITIZENSHIP being restored - AND RESPECTED by State officials sworn to abide by the Colorado Constitution.

I have had discussions with one Colorado Springs attorney regarding this issue. He quoted me a figure of $20,000 to pursue this issue to the Colorado Supreme Court on behalf of a family member.
Unfortunately that family member does not wish to subject themselves, or their family to the public record exposure.

I believe the State of Colorado is DEATHLY AFRAID of this issue making its way into the courts.
The State's reasoning is I think pretty obvious- all of those violent habitual criminals that the State releases into our communities from the Colorado Department of Corrections each year. That's WHY the State of Colorado systemically engages in a concerted effort to deny, obstruct, obscure, and violate the civil rights of Coloradoans on a regular basis.
__________________________
I would just add one further note. Colorado courts will do everything in their power to defend the State's status quo position in the event that a constitutional challenge to CRS 18-12-108 is presented. That is why any challenge must necessarily go all the way to the CO Supreme Court.

 

[Sig229]

I believe the State of Colorado is DEATHLY AFRAID of this issue making its way into the courts.
The State's reasoning is I think pretty obvious- all of those violent habitual criminals that the State releases into our communities from the Colorado Department of Corrections each year. That's WHY the State of Colorado systemically engages in a concerted effort to deny, obstruct, obscure, and violate the civil rights of Coloradoans on a regular basis.

If it does ever get to the courts in some type of class action, I would be more than happy to travel to CO at my expense (2,000 miles) and testify.

As you can tell, my experience with the CBI and the unlawful loss of my property has made me extremely angry. Even though its been almost 10 years sine the incident.

I dont normally hold grudges, but this anger and the feeling of being cheated will never go away.

 

[Lightwysh]

I have a question on this. Sorry to dig up an old post, but this seemed the most relevant topic.

I was adjudicated for 2nd degree Burglary and Felony theft on Dec of 1992. I was 12 years old at the time. I was sentenced to 3 years probation and was let off early due to good behavior(I think 18 months). It was a mistake I made as a child and other than some minor traffic tickets - speeding, seatbelt, that type of thing I have had no police contact.

I purchased a rifle back in 2000-2001 with no problems. I had all but forgotten about this incident and went to purchase a handgun about a month ago and was denied. CBI's reason for denial was the charges listed above. Now the appeal denial letter I received from CBI says my case under one district changed venues to another district and I need to have both cases expunged to "overcome this prohibition" as stated in the form.

I have the expungement forms filled out and ready to go, but just wanted some insight for some of the more experienced members.

What can I expect in this process, what kind of fee's involved, any tips?

 

[Sig229]

I have a question on this. Sorry to dig up an old post, but this seemed the most relevant topic.

I was adjudicated for 2nd degree Burglary and Felony theft on Dec of 1992. I was 12 years old at the time. I was sentenced to 3 years probation and was let off early due to good behavior(I think 18 months). It was a mistake I made as a child and other than some minor traffic tickets - speeding, seatbelt, that type of thing I have had no police contact.

I purchased a rifle back in 2000-2001 with no problems. I had all but forgotten about this incident and went to purchase a handgun about a month ago and was denied. CBI's reason for denial was the charges listed above. Now the appeal denial letter I received from CBI says my case under one district changed venues to another district and I need to have both cases expunged to "overcome this prohibition" as stated in the form.

I have the expungement forms filled out and ready to go, but just wanted some insight for some of the more experienced members.

What can I expect in this process, what kind of fee's involved, any tips?

Keep in mind I am not a lawyer and I only have limited experience with CO law and the CBI regime from my own horrible experience.

What I would do if I were you is, find out if your expungment is going to be through juvenile court. And if it is, then find out if you are having a hearing for the expungment and if you will be appearing in front of a judge.

Many states dont process juvenile expungments the same way they do adult expungments. And from my experience, getting a juvenile record expunge is MUCH more difficult than having an adult record expunged.

If you do have to appear before a judge for your juvenile expungment hearing, I would HIGHLY recommend getting a lawyer.

I have personally seen with my own eyes juvenile court judges chew up and spit out adults who got their lives together and never got a arrested again. And all they want to do is get that po-dunk juvenile charge expunged so they can move on with their lives
The juvenile court judges are an entirely different breed than your average district and circuit court judges.

 

[luv_jeeps]

Keep in mind I am not a lawyer and I only have limited experience with CO law and the CBI regime from my own horrible experience.

What I would do if I were you is, find out if your expungment is going to be through juvenile court. And if it is, then find out if you are having a hearing for the expungment and if you will be appearing in front of a judge.

Many states dont process juvenile expungments the same way they do adult expungments. And from my experience, getting a juvenile record expunge is MUCH more difficult than having an adult record expunged.

If you do have to appear before a judge for your juvenile expungment hearing, I would HIGHLY recommend getting a lawyer.

I have personally seen with my own eyes juvenile court judges chew up and spit out adults who got their lives together and never got a arrested again. And all they want to do is get that po-dunk juvenile charge expunged so they can move on with their lives
The juvenile court judges are an entirely different breed than your average district and circuit court judges.

Speaking from experience here....I had a record dating to 1980 that was causing me some issues. I was 15 at the time.
I looked up the relevant C.R.S. and even talked to an attorney. You can do all the juvenile yourself without the services of an attorney.

You can get all the forms here: http://www.courts.state.co.us/Forms/Forms_List.cfm?Form_Type_ID=157

Took me about 45 days for the whole thing. I did have to show up to the court room, but unless the jurisdiction protests it, you won't even see or talk to a judge.
My was in Jefferson County, CO. The court clerk will give you the final form signed by the judge, and then you take it to the main court clerks office and they file it.

 

[Lightwysh]

Speaking from experience here....I had a record dating to 1980 that was causing me some issues. I was 15 at the time.
I looked up the relevant C.R.S. and even talked to an attorney. You can do all the juvenile yourself without the services of an attorney.

You can get all the forms here: http://www.courts.state.co.us/Forms/Forms_List.cfm?Form_Type_ID=157

Took me about 45 days for the whole thing. I did have to show up to the court room, but unless the jurisdiction protests it, you won't even see or talk to a judge.
My was in Jefferson County, CO. The court clerk will give you the final form signed by the judge, and then you take it to the main court clerks office and they file it.

Just wanted to give an update on my situation. The expungement was amazingly simple. I went to the courthouse and filled out the forms on 10/4. I had a response with a hearing date about a week later. The hearing was for 10/31. I spent 2 minutes in front of the judge and it was all said and done. The biggest hurdle now is dealing with CBI. They have been ok but are very particular on how things are done. Hopefully all should be clear next week.

For anyone contemplating an attorney, I called around and most wanted $1k for the process. I spent 2 hours, $10 in gas and $5 in envelopes and stamps. If you file and for some reason are denied, you have to wait a year to file again.

 

[KBCraig]

Excellent outcome, Lightwysh. Thanks for sharing the follow-up.

 

[since9]

I am pleased to learn that the process of law, while difficult, is not that difficult.

Continue to pursue!