Possible Endings to this tale

[Carnivore]

imported post

I won't miss! and Yep remove all that doesn't fit in a peaceful society!

 

[Carnivore]

imported post

Obviously you doubt yourself or your skills, so it's best you don't get involved..

 

[compmanio365]

imported post

AWDstylez wrote:

Tomahawk wrote:

I'm just taking issue with your argument that BK is any different from any other armed robbery, and your notion of "professional" criminals. IMO opinon, crime is not a profession, but some criminals have more experience than others. I've read that the more experienced ones will often not carry a weapon in an effort to beat a weapons charge if they are caught, but I'm no expert, either.

When was the last time you heard of someone holding up a 7-11 and it turning into a hostage standoff? How about the last time someone held up a McDonald's and started executing people to keep the police away? In fact, do youeven need more than one hand to count the times you've EVER heard of a petty crook killing someone just for the hell of it?

I'll say this again, robbers want one thing: MONEY. They do not want a body count and the possibility of a capital offense on their hands over MONEY. Give them the MONEY and they're happy. They don't want to kill you, most probablydon't even have the balls to kill you. This wasthepoint I was trying to make.



However, that doesn't even matter because Carnivore (and everyone else arguing his logic)knows this as well as I do. What they're really advocating is being vigilante badass judge, jury, and executioner. Under normal circumstances I don't have too much of a problem with that because I don't have much sympathy or idiots that do bad things. However, this isn't a normal situation. This is a restaurant at peak lunch rush filled with plenty of innocent adults and children. As much as Carnivore thinks he's going to be Chuck Norris and get this guy with a single slug to the brain, it isn't likely. My bottom line point, listen well, is: do not endanger even ONE innocent person (never mind a BK full of them) just to be a vigilante badassand make yourself feel good about taking some petty thief off the street. His sad life isn't worth the chance of someone else dying or being injuredin a situation that was otherwise highly unlikely to turn violent if he simply got what he wanted.

You're one of the ones who believe women should pee themselves if about to be raped rather than shooting the rapist too, right? If you are too much of a wuss to defend yourself or others, your gun is a liability for you, not an asset.

Nobody wants to shoot anyone, but if a guy comes in and starts holding a gun to someone's head, you can either save a person that you have ever reason to believe is about to get murdered, or you can sit there and not want to "get involved" and just "give them what they want".....if that's letting some poor woman or kid get killed, so be it.

Don't get involved, don't risk them noticing you, just sit in the corner and pee yourself. Do you wear a bell around your neck and bleat as well?

 

[KBCraig]

imported post

The notion of a gang of professionals doing a "Heat"-style armed bank robbery is the stuff of Hollywood (obviously). "Professionals", to the degree they exist, concentrate on minimizing the unknown variables to ensure success, and that means not robbing banks that are open for business and full of customers, every single one of whom is an unknown variable who could cause problems. Instead, they do armored cars or closed businesses, where they only have to deal with 1-3 people who are all employees trained to give it up rather than resisting.

But, even assuming for the sake of discussion that Stylez has presented a legitimate dichotomy, I believe I would trust the pros far more than the jonesin' addict. They don't want complications; the addict isn't thinking rationally at all (or he wouldn't be robbing a Burger King full of witnesses).

 

[deepdiver]

imported post

AWDstylez wrote:

Tomahawk wrote:

I'm just taking issue with your argument that BK is any different from any other armed robbery, and your notion of "professional" criminals. IMO opinon, crime is not a profession, but some criminals have more experience than others. I've read that the more experienced ones will often not carry a weapon in an effort to beat a weapons charge if they are caught, but I'm no expert, either.

When was the last time you heard of someone holding up a 7-11 and it turning into a hostage standoff? How about the last time someone held up a McDonald's and started executing people to keep the police away? In fact, do youeven need more than one hand to count the times you've EVER heard of a petty crook killing someone just for the hell of it?
snip

We're not talking about hostage situations or BGs shooting people to keep the cops away and neither was the OP.

Off the top of my head ... The first CC use in MO I read of a few years back was a guy in St. Louis who was mugged on the street at gun point and after giving them his wallet and watch the 2 BGs started to walk away and then one turned and raised the gun at him and it wasn't until then that he pulled his CC weapon and shot them both. There have been numerous cases of robbers in restaurants and stores herding everyone into the store room and executing them. Five were killed at Lane Bryant not too long ago in that scenario. Tookie Williams, a founder of the Crips, was executed last year for executing a 7-11 clerk after he gave up the money and executing a hotel clerk, his wife and daughter before even asking for the money which he subsequently grabbed and ran. A VCU student was shot and killed in a street robbery about a year ago. ETC. So yeah, I would need more than one hand.

There are many cases of "give me the money *BANG*" and many cases of grab the money and run but when the BGs gun first comes out you don't know which scenario you are facing. Assuming that some punk holding up the local 7-11 waving a pistol around while you are trying to buy a Slurpee isn't going to put a cap in your ass because he just wants to grab the money and run is called victim mentality. There is a lot of room between "shoot him in the head as soon as you see a gun" and "aww, he ain't gonna hurt anybody - he just wants the cash and then will run away." IMO we must be prepared to act appropriately whichever way it starts to go.

 

[Sonora Rebel]

imported post

compmanio365 wrote:

AWDstylez wrote:

When was the last time you heard of someone holding up a 7-11 and it turning into a hostage standoff? How about the last time someone held up a McDonald's and started executing people to keep the police away? In fact, do youeven need more than one hand to count the times you've EVER heard of a petty crook killing someone just for the hell of it?

I'll say this again, robbers want one thing: MONEY. They do not want a body count and the possibility of a capital offense on their hands over MONEY. Give them the MONEY and they're happy. They don't want to kill you, most probablydon't even have the balls to kill you. This wasthepoint I was trying to make.



However, that doesn't even matter because Carnivore (and everyone else arguing his logic)knows this as well as I do. What they're really advocating is being vigilante badass judge, jury, and executioner. Under normal circumstances I don't have too much of a problem with that because I don't have much sympathy or idiots that do bad things. However, this isn't a normal situation. This is a restaurant at peak lunch rush filled with plenty of innocent adults and children. As much as Carnivore thinks he's going to be Chuck Norris and get this guy with a single slug to the brain, it isn't likely. My bottom line point, listen well, is: do not endanger even ONE innocent person (never mind a BK full of them) just to be a vigilante badassand make yourself feel good about taking some petty thief off the street. His sad life isn't worth the chance of someone else dying or being injuredin a situation that was otherwise highly unlikely to turn violent if he simply got what he wanted.

You're one of the ones who believe women should pee themselves if about to be raped rather than shooting the rapist too, right? If you are too much of a wuss to defend yourself or others, your gun is a liability for you, not an asset.

Nobody wants to shoot anyone, but if a guy comes in and starts holding a gun to someone's head, you can either save a person that you have ever reason to believe is about to get murdered, or you can sit there and not want to "get involved" and just "give them what they want".....if that's letting some poor woman or kid get killed, so be it.

Don't get involved, don't risk them noticing you, just sit in the corner and pee yourself. Do you wear a bell around your neck and bleat as well?

I dunno who you are compmanio365... but I could not have said it better if I'd sat up all night 'n thought about it. Ifanyone does notintend to 'get involved'... don't carry. The BG's already put the whole place 'in danger'. You dunno what he'll do. Assume the worst. Take the shot 'n hope for the best. BG's want the money... but they also get off on 'power'. This is the way they achieve it... 'casue they can't get it any other way. BG's will cap your ass for the hell of it 'n never blink. Most normal people have no freakin' idea of a violent mindset. If someone presents a gun and it's pointed at you... or somebody else... it's game time. You either cowboy up or punk out.