Pickin a Fight about Training!

[CalicoJack10]

I like your rules Dave! I'm going to print them out. I too watch all the good stuff as you do. When we get old our training is anything we can get. LOL!

Training? Just what IS Training? We all have slightly different ideas of what "Training" is.

My take: When I was in the military the only firearm I learned how to use in boot camp was the Colt .45. That was the only arm I was trained on and used for many years. Later I was trained with Remington 12 gauge pump shotguns and M-14's. The Colt .45 was the only gun I was proficient with and earned the Expert rating on.

The last two years in the service I received specialty training for hostage situations, hijackings and compartment clearing. We wore the heaviest full body armor I've ever seen for room clearing. We fired real guns with paintball rounds. They hurt quite a bit even with all that armor on.

What did I learn from the specialty training? I learned that all the hostages usually die and at least the first two men into the room to clear out the terrorists also die. It was hard work, it was fun and it woke up my team as to what happens in real life.

How does that compare to concealed carry? Not one bit. I knew absolutely nothing about concealed carry, the laws of the state I lived in or any of the legalities and repercussions of being involved in a shoot out. I took it upon myself to learn all of these things and continued to do so as I moved from one state to another.

Do I think I need training on how to carry concealed and use my handgun. No. I practice on my own as do many if not all of us on this forum.

Can I benefit from more training? You bet!

Do I need the government telling me I HAVE to have training? NO.

So if Calico Jack or WCI or anyone else offers training that is free should I take it? Why not? The more training I get the more proficient I am in all regards.

Good Call Shipmate! Great way to put it!

 

[rcawdor57]

Shipmate....You figured that one out!

Good Call Shipmate! Great way to put it!

Shipmate I was. I'm guessing you figured that out by the "compartment" clearing?

I hope to make it to one of your training sessions sometime this summer and maybe I can bring Springfield 1911 and McX.

Carry on!

 

[Running Wolf]

OK XD40,

So I will offer you this, and you will be the only one that can cash in on this offer. I will teach you the NRA's courses. Basic Pistol, PPITH and PPOTH, then we can set up and I will teach you my BASIC defensive firearms curriculum, and we will see if you think that the NRA is half azzing their training. And we will see if the NRA can stand up to that. And the only thing you will have to do is come up here, and provide your own equipment, hotel and food.

XD40,

I would like to state officially and for the record that I volunteer to be your proxy for this offer. If you don't have the time, inclination, or whatnot to accept the offer, I'd be happy to do so for you!

:lol:

 

[CalicoJack10]

Shipmate I was. I'm guessing you figured that out by the "compartment" clearing?

I hope to make it to one of your training sessions sometime this summer and maybe I can bring Springfield 1911 and McX.

Carry on!

There was the M-14, the compartment, and the standards of training. Being navy myself, and having been SAMI qualified, I saw what you were saying. Even though you were not really saying it. lol

Come on up, bring your friends, forget the idea of taking a course to get a permit, because I don't teach that type of course. I can however teach you to defend and survive. Tadpole Style!

 

[wild boar]

Could it be it's getting through?

I doubt it Jack, thats four posts in a row for training. It could be that we're Veterans, and even though we have had to come to terms with death, it doesn't have to happen now. I'll Back everything you guys have said, and maybe, some of your thoughts. When you decide to speak to the physiological aspects on the defaming process that diminishing your foe,ect...ect, let me know. I'd rather be a rusty soldier than a self taught rights activist when it comes to that ability, its been 37 years since my last lesson from our dear Uncle. Keep your powder dry buddy. boar out.

:dude:

 

[CalicoJack10]

I doubt it Jack, thats four posts in a row for training. It could be that we're Veterans, and even though we have had to come to terms with death, it doesn't have to happen now. I'll Back everything you guys have said, and maybe, some of your thoughts. When you decide to speak to the physiological aspects on the defaming process that diminishing your foe,ect...ect, let me know. I'd rather be a rusty soldier than a self taught rights activist when it comes to that ability, its been 37 years since my last lesson from our dear Uncle. Keep your powder dry buddy. boar out.

:dude:

The hope is that we can protect others from the hell we live through, I really do hope that it works. I am reminded of why I work so hard at this every time I close my eyes. God willing I can help others.

I do a lot to help vets with PTSD, if you ever need help with something service related, I got your 6. I never forget the warrior, no matter the war. And that will never stop toll I am having Roll Call with Jesus.

 

[MKEgal]

I see control issues.

I asked politely a couple times that the discussion of training (how much, should it be mandatory, what kind, who decides) which erupted on another thread w/ a completely different topic be taken into its own space.
Thanks, CJ, for doing that. Also makes it easier for people to find this discussion.

If it wasn't for the "Government mandate" that one get training before a permit is issued. The majority on this forum would not even think about getting any training.

We've already been carrying. And we've already educated ourselves without any gov't mandate to do so.

I know of nobody who carries now, & who might decide to carry concealed, who doesn't have some sort of safety training.
Is it top-notch self-defense training, from CJ or Front Sight or LFI? Rarely.
Should anyone who carries have more than the basics of safety? Absolutely.
My objection is that the gov't wants to control who exercises her rights & how.

The point is that the minimum is not good enough.
I don't believe that training should be mandated by anyone other than those that need the training.
I DO believe that the idea of hunters safety being enough is a dangerous!
...the more training WE get, the better off we are in the long run.

Anyone I talk to, or (hopefully) eventually teach, I will encourage toward further training, specifically self-defense oriented training.
It would be interesting to find out (though I don't think there's a way to do it) what sort of training people had before they used their firearm for self-defense. Supposedly it happens more than 2000 times per day, so it shouldn't be hard to find people to ask.
Then we'd have to look at if innocents were harmed, or if any of the other concerns people have happen in real life.

My job is to make sure that people who come to me for training leave with the ability to defend and survive without loosing their lives, loved ones, or any innocent bystanders.

Amen.

 

[Lurchiron]

YOUR 1911 ofcourse!

What!!!...So what do you have against mustard?

 

[CalicoJack10]

No problem MKEgal, though I have to admit I actually started this thread as much to see how many people would jump on me for it as much as to consolidate the fighting to a single place.

Then again, I also wanted to know who to steer clear of. lol

 

[Lurchiron]

A: I don't know too many operators that brag about who they are and what they do, and I know several. Military and PMC, all of them know that there is no glory in what has to be done in defense of this country.

B: I take it that means you are not willing to accept my offer?

C: It is not my history that is in question. And I never pretended to be anything, I offered to stand up and prove what I am and what I can do. Over and over, and free of charge as I recall.

D: I never asked where you are going, I asked who you worked for, there is a HUGE difference.

E: Why do you keep avoiding a spirited discussion and trying to turn it into an argument?

F: My training speaks for itself, and so does the work I do for my community, my state, my fellow Americans, Law abiding citizens, the special Olympics, my fellow veterans, and so on. Not to mention the fact that I tell people that I teach for free that all I ask in return is that they come on here and give an HONEST review, just like the guys did a few weeks ago.

G: I have had enough of the banter, and the back and forth where I try to create common sense, and in return I get insulted for trying to get you to realize that we all (Including me) can benefit from more training. As long as it is not Mandated training.

So best wishes to you and yours. Hopefully you can come to a point where you realize that you need more than just the minimum before it costs more than you are willing to take responsibility for.

OK, Buh Bye!!!!:dude:

Careful...if you rile him too much, he might ignore you:uhoh::shocker::lol:.

 

[CalicoJack10]

Careful...if you rile him too much, he might ignore you:uhoh::shocker::lol:.

Well, you know what they say, ignorance is bliss........

Wait......

That's not what you meant..........

I think I would be happier if he just ignored me. But I also would love the chance to put "Super Marine" to the test and see if he is an international contractor for management, or operational response. Like I said, I know an operator or two, and just stepping on the range with someone I can pick their training 99% of the time. I am not the best shooter, and I am sure there are better instructors, and I know for a fact we could ALL (including me) benefit from more training.

That's why I made the offer I did. I am a put up or shut up kinda guy. Just ask anyone who has met me. I put up 100% of the time. I am just not a fan of BS artists that talk the talk and then sit down.

 

[CalicoJack10]

BTW, if I am wrong I will eat and have eaten my words publicly!!!!

 

[rcawdor57]

Training...Training...Training! I Say "Of Course I Could Use More!"...

There was the M-14, the compartment, and the standards of training. Being navy myself, and having been SAMI qualified, I saw what you were saying. Even though you were not really saying it. lol

Come on up, bring your friends, forget the idea of taking a course to get a permit, because I don't teach that type of course. I can however teach you to defend and survive. Tadpole Style!

When I got out of the Navy in Bangor, Washington we were STILL using the Colt .45, M-14's and Remington 870's (IIRC). I wasn't in the Navy for 9-11 but I know now that they added a couple of .50 BMG's to the armory and other assorted firearms. I was on subs but did the hostage/compartment clearing training on a big ole surface ship in Bremerton that the SEAL's and other military used for training. The sub I was on (U.S.S. Georgia) and all other subs had to implement training for a "Team" to thwart terrorists if and when they got on and took over portions if not all of our sub. It was an experience I will never forget! We were trained by two C.I.A. guys who never told us their names.

I hope my wife and I can make it for your training one day so she can have her training requirement met for the concealed carry license. We are looking forward to meeting you.

Lock and Load!

 

[McX]

boy, they're hitting the training bit around here big time: training flyers at gas stations, and now one in the ads in the local paper this a.m. always; hurry, beat the rush, good in 30 states (never mention not here). Holding classes at some holiday inn or something.

 

[davegran]

....
Come on up, bring your friends, forget the idea of taking a course to get a permit, because I don't teach that type of course. I can however teach you to defend and survive....

Most summers my wife & I camp out up at Star Lake for a week. Maybe we can find some space in one of your classes during that time; we'd enjoy it and profit from it!

 

[CalicoJack10]

boy, they're hitting the training bit around here big time: training flyers at gas stations, and now one in the ads in the local paper this a.m. always; hurry, beat the rush, good in 30 states (never mention not here). Holding classes at some holiday inn or something.

Oh Yea, Well if you take my course I will give you a WCI discount, The "I drove 360 miles" discount, and I will include a free cheeseburger!! Beat that deal!!!

This offer does not apply to anyone other than the instructors of this course and all cheeseburgers will be McDonalds or hoggie doggies.

Hahahahahahahaha! I say just look for someone who can teach you to defend and survive instead of just someone who wants your money.

 

[gogodawgs]

Should firearms or firearm owners be subject to testing to receive a license to carry a firearm?

The Argument Against
Author Nick Smith


No, no, no... it says "....shall not be infringed." no training, no class, no license, nada...the government is to be absent from a citizens right to 'keep' (own) and 'bear' (carry, open or concealed).

Now for one minute let's tear apart this stupid licensing idea.

You take ONE test to drive a car when you are 16 and then NEVER have to prove competency again. The test is simple, multiple choice and teaches you nothing that you can't read on your own. You take ONE driving test and then NEVER have to prove your ability ever again, EVER. Your driver’s license is recognized in any of the 50 states. Therefore, you can have learned to drive in Alaska with very little traffic, yet your license is good in New York, New York or Los Angeles, CA.

You can therefore be 66 years old and have not taken a test, written or physical in 50 YEARS. Do you think cars have changed in the last 50 years? The 'you have to have a license to drive' argument doesn't hold water, it is a joke. How many times driving have you said to yourself; 'that old man shouldn't be driving', 'that woman shouldn't be driving', 'that immigrant shouldn't be driving', 'that teenager shouldn't be driving?' We have all said this to ourselves. The argument simply is ridiculous and is now null and void.

And even with licensing, we still have; drunk drivers, negligent drivers, hit and runs, get away (from crime) drivers, stolen cars, speeding in school zones and more.

YOU SEE THAT LICENSING DRIVERS (AND CARS) DOES NOTHING TO PREVENT CRIME FROM CARS...OR FROM DRIVERS.

We must all simply accept that we choose to live in a free society. In a free society their are inherit risks and there is evil and there is great joy. Part of living in a free society is that we must accept responsibility for our actions. There are things in a free society that people will always not like and will always be opposed to and never agree upon, we must learn to accept that and yet choose to live together in peace and respect.

 

[rcawdor57]

A Free Society Has Risks....Yes It Does.

"We must all simply accept that we choose to live in a free society. In a free society their are inherit risks and there is evil and there is great joy. Part of living in a free society is that we must accept responsibility for our actions. There are things in a free society that people will always not like and will always be opposed to and never agree upon, we must learn to accept that and yet choose to live together in peace and respect. "

I have said this over and over all my life. Every time a new "law" is put on the books another slice of freedom has been taken from us.

 

[wild boar]

[QUOTE="

I have said this over and over all my life. Every time a new "law" is put on the books another slice of freedom has been taken from us.[/QUOTE]

As long as crime evolves laws will have to adapt, thank a lawyer. If we except protection from state, and federal governments we'll have to Live with it. Times have changed, in the 1800 a sheriff was asked why he did nothing when one man shot another dead in the street, but when a man had stolen another's horse, he hanged him. To this the sheriff replied, I've known a lot of men that needed killing, but never have I seen a horse that needed stealing. boar out.

 

[Lurchiron]

boy, they're hitting the training bit around here big time: training flyers at gas stations, and now one in the ads in the local paper this a.m. always; hurry, beat the rush, good in 30 states (never mention not here). Holding classes at some holiday inn or something.

Maybe the starving artists could sell some paintings along side them, and they could split the hotel rental... :lol:


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