OT - legal to kill mountain lion?

[Kildars]

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or a couple of these:

 

[SANDRAT]

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Aaron1124 wrote:

Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:

Aaron1124 wrote:

Citizen wrote:

I have a soft-spot for big kitties.

Is live trapping and relocation an option? Maybe a conservation group is already set up to do this.

I support this. Trapping and relocating would result in a happy cat and a happy human. No one needs to die if it can be avoided.

Pumas are not human.... they have no rights and if it comes to big cat or family and livestock.... I say kill the big cat. No shipping it off to parts unknown. Kill the cat.

That's your opinion, and I have mine.

I can say when I joined this organization,I never expected to see Bunny Huggers on here,next thing I expect to hear is trapping and relocating Gangbangers.Half of these posts sound like uninformed libs.Most cats found to attack humans are in very poor shape and need to be put down anyway.As far as the post about "Tracking" them by WDFW,if you can Track a Couger without a radio collar or Dogs,we can eliminate the ferry svstem,because you can part the waters also.Problem Cat?Shoot it.

 

[Kildars]

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So because we say lethal forced should be used last we're a bunch of bunny hugging liberals?

Great argument. A+. Really.

 

[Hammer]

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Kildars wrote:

Hammer wrote:

jinj wrote:

we have them by our house all the time, they are no problem.

No reason to kill them.

So, how many children have they eaten in your neighborhood?
I take it none of yours.
I guess as long as they can be fed someone ELSE'S children, it's all OK.
They'd be "no problem" "No reason to kill them"
I lived where a child WAS killed by a cougar.
If one looks into it, they will prey on humans.

Oh please, here we go with the "think of the children" argument.

If you live in a cougar prone area you have a responsibility to avoid the situation as much as possible. Either by getting one of these:



Building a fence, or whatever. You think you'll always be able to kill it? Prevention is the best way.

Ahh, I hear the sage voice of zero experience speaking.
Thaks for sharing your "wisdom"

 

[Bill Starks]

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[font="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"]WDFW NEWS RELEASE
Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife
600 Capitol Way North, Olympia, WA 98501-1091
http://wdfw.wa.gov/ [/font]
Correction to Aug. 4 general cougar season news release: The news release stated incorrectly that hounds could be used during the general cougar hunting season in Chelan, Ferry, Klickitat, Okanogan, Stevens and Pend Oreille counties from Oct. 31 through Nov. 30. Hounds may not be used during that time.
August 6, 2009
Contact: Wildlife Program, (360) 902-2515

 

[Aaron1124]

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Hammer wrote:

Kildars wrote:

Hammer wrote:

jinj wrote:

we have them by our house all the time, they are no problem.

No reason to kill them.

So, how many children have they eaten in your neighborhood?
I take it none of yours.
I guess as long as they can be fed someone ELSE'S children, it's all OK.
They'd be "no problem" "No reason to kill them"
I lived where a child WAS killed by a cougar.
If one looks into it, they will prey on humans.

Oh please, here we go with the "think of the children" argument.

If you live in a cougar prone area you have a responsibility to avoid the situation as much as possible. Either by getting one of these:



Building a fence, or whatever. You think you'll always be able to kill it? Prevention is the best way.

Ahh, I hear the sage voice of zero experience speaking.
Thaks for sharing your "wisdom"

I never understood why someone needs to make a rude remark at someone else stating an opinion that differs from their own.

 

[Aaron1124]

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SANDRAT wrote:

Aaron1124 wrote:

Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:

Aaron1124 wrote:

Citizen wrote:

I have a soft-spot for big kitties.

Is live trapping and relocation an option? Maybe a conservation group is already set up to do this.

I support this. Trapping and relocating would result in a happy cat and a happy human. No one needs to die if it can be avoided.

Pumas are not human.... they have no rights and if it comes to big cat or family and livestock.... I say kill the big cat. No shipping it off to parts unknown. Kill the cat.

That's your opinion, and I have mine.

I can say when I joined this organization,I never expected to see Bunny Huggers on here,next thing I expect to hear is trapping and relocating Gangbangers.Half of these posts sound like uninformed libs.Most cats found to attack humans are in very poor shape and need to be put down anyway.As far as the post about "Tracking" them by WDFW,if you can Track a Couger without a radio collar or Dogs,we can eliminate the ferry svstem,because you can part the waters also.Problem Cat?Shoot it.

So because I don't find it necessary to kill a wild animal as a first option means I'm a liberal? Great logic, partner. If you want to shoot the cougar, go for it. That's just not my style. Those who like insulting others for having a different opinion aren't showing much.

So there's a law or guideline that says since I'm a firearm owner, and support firearm rights, means I can't support animal rights at the same time?

 

[Kildars]

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Hammer wrote:

Ahh, I hear the sage voice of zero experience speaking.
Thaks for sharing your "wisdom"

Zero experience? You know nothing about me. If you feel prevention is a bad way to go well, idk what to say.

 

[SANDRAT]

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Aaron1124 wrote:

SANDRAT wrote:

Aaron1124 wrote:

Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:

Aaron1124 wrote:

Citizen wrote:

I have a soft-spot for big kitties.

Is live trapping and relocation an option? Maybe a conservation group is already set up to do this.

I support this. Trapping and relocating would result in a happy cat and a happy human. No one needs to die if it can be avoided.

Pumas are not human.... they have no rights and if it comes to big cat or family and livestock.... I say kill the big cat. No shipping it off to parts unknown. Kill the cat.

That's your opinion, and I have mine.

I can say when I joined this organization,I never expected to see Bunny Huggers on here,next thing I expect to hear is trapping and relocating Gangbangers.Half of these posts sound like uninformed libs.Most cats found to attack humans are in very poor shape and need to be put down anyway.As far as the post about "Tracking" them by WDFW,if you can Track a Couger without a radio collar or Dogs,we can eliminate the ferry svstem,because you can part the waters also.Problem Cat?Shoot it.

So because I don't find it necessary to kill a wild animal as a first option means I'm a liberal? Great logic, partner. If you want to shoot the cougar, go for it. That's just not my style. Those who like insulting others for having a different opinion aren't showing much.

So there's a law or guideline that says since I'm a firearm owner, and support firearm rights, means I can't support animal rights at the same time?

The "Key word" here is "problem"Couger,have your opinions all you want,but I am a WA state licensed trapper,and I do know what reality is.Who pays for a Couger proof fence around 2.5 acres?A big Dog has a less than 50/50 chance with a big kitty if he decides to stand his ground,If you were a hunter,you would know how damaging Cougers are to Big game herds.Ever since hound Hunting was all but outlawed,cats have gotten much bolder.Check out what happened in Orange Co.,CA when Couger hunting was Outlawed,it became the Hot spot in the nation for attacks on Humans.One thing to keep in mind,If you spot a Couger just looking at you and not running away,you best loosen the flap on your holster,you just might have a problem kitty on your hands.

 

[Kildars]

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Obviously if it comes down to protecting your children in an instant you would shoot the animal, or the human. However when trapping/relocation is an option I think it should be taken advantage of.

We're in their habitat.

 

[kparker]

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We're in their habitat.

Hey, it's our habitat now.

 

[Aaron1124]

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SANDRAT, actually you're incorrect about a dog standing less than a 50/50 chance against a cougar. I'm not a hunter myself, but many of my relatives and friends are.
I'm VERY familiar with LGDs and how effective they are against almost any predator. Dogs such as a Caucasian Ovtcharka, Dogo Argentino, Kangal, Anatolian Shepherd, and several other breeds are well known among the true experts at being able to fend off large predators such as cougars, wolves, coyotes, and other predators.

If you'd like, I can even cite several videos and documents that back up my claim.

Now, of course, if the life of a child is on the line, then of course I support using lethal force. I said my first method would be trapping and relocating. My uncle has 20 acres in Minnesota and yes, it's all fenced in. Maybe not everyone has the luxory or finances to build such a fence, but if appropriate measures want to be taken, then a person will take them.

 

[MrGray]

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Aaron1124 wrote:

[That's why I support the building of a fence large enough to keep a large predator out. Also, owning livestock guardian dogs are a GREAT deterrent. I would definitely use these two options before resorting to shooting one.

Like I said, this is just my opinion. Others are entititled to feel differently. I'm not looking to start an argument, but this is the approach I would take.

So, I live in the middle of a forest - mixed species, mostly Doug Fir, Hemlock, Cedar. I have various animals wander through my homesite - bear, cougar, deer, the occasional elk, bobcat, coyote, and a host of smaller species as well.

Please explain how high I will need to build this fence to keep cougars out. A quick search on the web returns the info that cougars can probably easily clear a 12 foot fence from the ground. I figure by climbing into a tree, a cougar can easily clear any fence I might build if only by moving across the canopy limb to limb, let alone jumping.

I could, I suppose, clear a wide corridor with no crown closure to keep them from simply climbing into the trees and then crossing over the fence above. I'd have to cut down a hell of a lot of trees to do that, and I'd lose both the habitat value of those trees AND the revenue they represent.

I figure I will need about 2 miles of fencing to fence my property. I will also need to understand how you plan to allow other animals (deer, bear, elk, etc.) to get past the fence - I assume you don't want to impact the other wildlife adversely. No, let me put that another way - I will not ALLOW you to insist that I build a fence which will have a negative impact on many species.

So now I need about 2 miles of fence that other animals can pass through unhindered but somehow magically is impermeable to cougars.

Just tell me, will you, how the hell I'd build such a fence?

For now, forget telling me how the hell I'll finance the construction. I won't worry about the costs. I figure it will cost upwards of $25 a running foot. I need about 10,000 feet of fence, so I'll be sending the bill for a quarter of a million bucks to you, and I'll let you deal with the costs. I'll encourage my neighbors to all do the same thing. They'll all have similar bills.

fair enough?

 

[Aaron1124]

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MrGray wrote:

Aaron1124 wrote:

[That's why I support the building of a fence large enough to keep a large predator out. Also, owning livestock guardian dogs are a GREAT deterrent. I would definitely use these two options before resorting to shooting one.

Like I said, this is just my opinion. Others are entititled to feel differently. I'm not looking to start an argument, but this is the approach I would take.

So, I live in the middle of a forest - mixed species, mostly Doug Fir, Hemlock, Cedar. I have various animals wander through my homesite - bear, cougar, deer, the occasional elk, bobcat, coyote, and a host of smaller species as well.

Please explain how high I will need to build this fence to keep cougars out. A quick search on the web returns the info that cougars can probably easily clear a 12 foot fence from the ground. I figure by climbing into a tree, a cougar can easily clear any fence I might build if only by moving across the canopy limb to limb, let alone jumping.

I could, I suppose, clear a wide corridor with no crown closure to keep them from simply climbing into the trees and then crossing over the fence above. I'd have to cut down a hell of a lot of trees to do that, and I'd lose both the habitat value of those trees AND the revenue they represent.

I figure I will need about 2 miles of fencing to fence my property. I will also need to understand how you plan to allow other animals (deer, bear, elk, etc.) to get past the fence - I assume you don't want to impact the other wildlife adversely. No, let me put that another way - I will not ALLOW you to insist that I build a fence which will have a negative impact on many species.

So now I need about 2 miles of fence that other animals can pass through unhindered but somehow magically is impermeable to cougars.

Just tell me, will you, how the hell I'd build such a fence?

For now, forget telling me how the hell I'll finance the construction. I won't worry about the costs. I figure it will cost upwards of $25 a running foot. I need about 10,000 feet of fence, so I'll be sending the bill for a quarter of a million bucks to you, and I'll let you deal with the costs. I'll encourage my neighbors to all do the same thing. They'll all have similar bills.

fair enough?

I can't answer that, because I'm not in the position to tell *you* what to do. I explained what *I* would do. Please re-read what I said.

I don't care what you do. Unlike you, I don't own that much property. I have a one story home in a wooded area with a little over 3,500 square feet of yard (combining the front and back) And although I do not own them anymore, I use to have two goats on my property, and I own two dogs as well. I've never had a negative encounter with any predator, and trust me, there aren't a lack of them out here.

I'm not tell you what you should do. Don't get defensive and assume that I am, simply because I'm stating how I feel. If you want to shoot a cougar, then shoot a cougar, because apparently you missed the last part of my post on the first page that reads: "Again, that is my opinion. You're entitled to do what you want.", seeing how you keep referencing how I'm "insisting" you to do something.

 

[Bader]

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[MrGray]

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Aaron1124 wrote:

I can't answer that, because I'm not in the position to tell *you* what to do. I explained what *I* would do.  Please re-read what I said.
[/b][/quote]

Ok, so imagine you're in my position. You've proposed building a fence.

How will this fence magically impede cougars but not impede other species? And how will the financing for this fence work?

Because it's all fine and dandy to whip out the moral superiority thing, you know, and say "Geez, just build a fence", but to be honest, a fence is NOT going to work at all, will be really expensive, and so your proposed solution is not workable.

And so now I'm waiting for someone to propose a REASONABLE solution. Don't tell me "have the cougar trapped and transported." We had a cougar in this area a few years ago. It killed three or four goats, threatened a child, and DFW came out and trapped it (using what was left of one of the goats as bait). They transported it way the heck over on the other side of the Cascades. A week and a half later, it was back - killed two goats, and then my neighbor was walking around the corner of her barn with her four year old son, going to feed the chickens, and the cougar was sitting there looking at the four year old son and thinking "Breakfast!"

That cougar is now dead, and I'm damn glad it is. And if you value the cougar more than the goats and a four year old human, I think you need to seriously re-examine your priorities.

I'm not in favor of killing things indiscriminately, but I eat meat, and I don't see a lot of moral difference between killing to eat and killing to keep from being eaten.

 

[Aaron1124]

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MrGray wrote:

Aaron1124 wrote:

I can't answer that, because I'm not in the position to tell *you* what to do. I explained what *I* would do. Please re-read what I said.
[/b][/quote]

Ok, so imagine you're in my position. You've proposed building a fence.

How will this fence magically impede cougars but not impede other species? And how will the financing for this fence work?

Because it's all fine and dandy to whip out the moral superiority thing, you know, and say "Geez, just build a fence", but to be honest, a fence is NOT going to work at all, will be really expensive, and so your proposed solution is not workable.

And so now I'm waiting for someone to propose a REASONABLE solution. Don't tell me "have the cougar trapped and transported." We had a cougar in this area a few years ago. It killed three or four goats, threatened a child, and DFW came out and trapped it (using what was left of one of the goats as bait). They transported it way the heck over on the other side of the Cascades. A week and a half later, it was back - killed two goats, and then my neighbor was walking around the corner of her barn with her four year old son, going to feed the chickens, and the cougar was sitting there looking at the four year old son and thinking "Breakfast!"

That cougar is now dead, and I'm damn glad it is. And if you value the cougar more than the goats and a four year old human, I think you need to seriously re-examine your priorities.

I'm not in favor of killing things indiscriminately, but I eat meat, and I don't see a lot of moral difference between killing to eat and killing to keep from being eaten.[/quote]Okay, the difference between you and I is I am not insisting anything to you. I am not proposing that you build a fence. I am not suggesting that you don't use lethal force on the predator, and on top of all things, I am not telling you what your priorities should be. On the other hand, you seem like you're just looking for an argument, because even though none of my posts have ever come close to insisting that others do something, you're continuing to tell me that I'm *insisting* you to do something. I clearly said in my last post, if you want to shoot the cougar, then shoot the cougar. I said nothing about wanting you to build a fence, but you're still on the topic. I have a fence. My fence, along with my dogs, keeps predators out. I might live in just of a highly wildlife populated area as you do. I see wildlife come and go on a daily basis. Never have I myself, my goats, my dogs, or my family been in immediate danger.

What I do works for me. If you're happy with what you do, then by all means, keep it up, but please drop the crazy idea thinking that I'm trying to tell you what to do.

 

[Bader]

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McGray, why are you so angry?

 

[Aaron1124]

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Here's all of my posts on the first two pages. You'll notice that I don't "insist" you do anything, in any of them.



"I support this. Trapping and relocating would result in a happy cat and a happy human. No one needs to die if it can be avoided." - Referencing that I support trapping if using lethal force is avoidable.

"Eh, I don't really consider making it someone elses problem. But that's just my opinion." - Meaning I don't consider it making it someone elses problem.

"There have been mountain lions that have been trapped by WDFW and relocated into the cascades." - Just as it says.

"Here's what I would do

1) Build a fence large enough to keep most would-be predators off of my property

2) Have a couple of LGDs (Livestock Guardian Dogs), such as Caucasian Ovtcharkas, Anatolian Shepherds, etc etc. They alone would be enough to thwart any cougar away from a potential attack on animals or your property.

3) If, for some reason, all else failed, I'd fire a warning shot, which would most likely spook the animal.

I'd only kill it in a last resort.

Again, that is my opinion. You're entitled to do what you want." - Meaning this has been a successful method of prevention for me.

"That's why I support the building of a fence large enough to keep a large predator out. Also, owning livestock guardian dogs are a GREAT deterrent. I would definitely use these two options before resorting to shooting one." - Meaning there are other methods that are working for me, meaning I haven't had to resort to shooting a cougar, or other predator.

"Like I said, this is just my opinion. Others are entitled to feel differently. I'm not looking to start an argument, but this is the approach I would take."

 

[MrGray]

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Aaron1124 wrote:

I have a fence. My fence, along with my dogs, keeps predators out. I might live in just of a highly wildlife populated area as you do. I see wildlife come and go on a daily basis.

You say you have a fence, and between your fence and your dogs, it keeps the predators out. How tall is this fence? Does it allow deer, bear, bobcats, elk, coyotes, and other wildlife in, or does it keep them out? Does it keep cougars out, or are there just no cougars present to come in? Is your fence solution workable in a closed canopy forest? How do you keep the cougars from simply jumping OVER the fence?