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OCer stopped at Springfield Walmart with gun, 100 rds of ammo

Firearms Iinstuctor

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Jul 12, 2011
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3,142
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northern wis
In another forum, I read the relevant MO statutes. The only section that could possibly apply requires mens rea, and the report makes it clear that he had no intention to cause alarm.

He caused alarm by being a dumbass, not because he intended to scare people.
I would disagree the store manager cause the alarm and scared people.
 

hammer6

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Oct 11, 2008
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1,373
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Florida
Don't you think there's a slight difference between the two cases?

In Springfield, some knucklehead scared some people but harmed no one. Criminal charges are relatively minor.

In El Paso, police and the DA are building a major case where 22 people were murdered.

Don't you think that the active major felony investigation might hold evidence a little closer to the vest until trial time?
Sure. Of course. But isn't a crime a crime?
 

Ghost1958

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Nov 5, 2015
Messages
725
Location
Kentucky
There was no panic until the idiot manager pulled a firealarm.

The firefighter who apparently thinks he is 007 is extremely lucky he was not quite legally shot in SD for pulling a gun on a citizen doing a completely legal act.

Personally I hope after the charges are tossed out the guy bankrupts the city police dept, the arresting officers , the idiot twins , firefighter and store manager.
 

Vitaeus

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May 30, 2010
Messages
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Location
Bremerton, Washington
1st He is an idiot, legal, but an idiot
2nd hopefully he gets a good lawyer, since this would be a horrible precedent to allow
3rd Firefighter might just have been doing his best with limited information, but no immediate threat should not involve drawing your firearm, let alone pointing at someone else.
4th damn, I miss having time for Open Carry
 

OC for ME

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Jan 6, 2010
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White Oak Plantation
There is a glaring lack of evidence that the Walmart patrons were as worked up about the armed citizen as the Walmart manager and the firefighter apparently were.

Precedent has been set...please note the charge filed.

The firefighter violated RSMo 571.030.1(4), he must be tested under RSMo 563.026/031, the firefighter should be tested under RSMo 563.051. Charge the firefighter under RSMo 565.050/090, RSMo 571.015. The firefighter thinking he knew MO weapons/use of force statutes is not the same as he knowing MO weapons/use of force statutes. Ignorance is no excuse...though, Springfield will not charge the firefighter, just as prosecutors/cops will not charge a 911 caller who calls cops on a OCer.

The citizen did not violate any MO statutes, hence Springfield not charging him with weapons offenses.

Edit for clarity.
 
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Ghost1958

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Nov 5, 2015
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725
Location
Kentucky
They will have to prove intent as that is mentioned in the statute I believe.

Intent is a mental state, which in a case like this is impossible to prove .

If the charges aren't dropped he will beat the rap.
 

hammer6

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Oct 11, 2008
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1,373
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Florida
They will have to prove intent as that is mentioned in the statute I believe.

Intent is a mental state, which in a case like this is impossible to prove .

If the charges aren't dropped he will beat the rap.
will this go to a jury?
 

Ghost1958

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Location
Kentucky
The thing everyone seems to keep missing in the rush to pile on the carrier is HE didn't cause the panic.

It's a given very few shoppers could even have known he was there.

The idiot manager did that by initiating a bogus fire alarm.

And the carrier came out along with the rest of the patrons only to assaulted with a deadly weapin by Wyat Earp the firefighter.

The guy had every right to carry and dress as he pleased. All the manager needed to do if he wanted him gone was to tell him to leave the store.

The wrong person got charged in this situation. The manager and the firefighter are the only ones who broke any law.
 

OC for ME

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White Oak Plantation
The perp is out on bond, his guns and ammo, at his residence, have been confiscated...I think I heard the sentence, if convicted, is ~4 years.


ETA
 
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hammer6

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Joined
Oct 11, 2008
Messages
1,373
Location
Florida
The thing everyone seems to keep missing in the rush to pile on the carrier is HE didn't cause the panic.

It's a given very few shoppers could even have known he was there.

The idiot manager did that by initiating a bogus fire alarm.

And the carrier came out along with the rest of the patrons only to assaulted with a deadly weapin by Wyat Earp the firefighter.

The guy had every right to carry and dress as he pleased. All the manager needed to do if he wanted him gone was to tell him to leave the store.

The wrong person got charged in this situation. The manager and the firefighter are the only ones who broke any law.
oooohh ooohhh oohhhhh!!!! this is the first EVER real life scenaio of yelling "fire" in a crowded theater!!!!!
 

We-the-People

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
2,222
Location
White City, Oregon, USA
Well it's been a while since I've been here to OC.ORG and I see the butters are still an ever present problem.

So let's see here...... We have a law biding citizen walking into a national chain store with an official policy of "if it's legal you're welcome" and a manager in said store apparently not liking that policy who decides to perform a terrorist act and scare more than 10 people by "yelling fire" and causing a panic.

We have an off duty government agent (in the firefighter) who commits a number of felonies including assault with a deadly weapon, kidnapping, menacing/brandishing/disorderly (dependent upon MO's specific laws).

We have an on duty government agent in a supervisory role (police supervisor) intimating that he and/or his minions might well have executed the law abiding citizen and that he's lucky they didn't.

And then we have the media trying their darndest to spin this with statements like "the armed man fled the store" rather than, when he heard the fire alarm the law abiding citizen exited the store as is normally done after hearing such an alarm.

And finally.....the BUTTERS here who support the second amendment......... BUT only when exercised in a way they approve.

Bottom line, the man did nothing illegal. The terrorist threat charges are to try to save their legal arses as they has ZIP on which to actually charge the man. Their firefighter hero buddy on the other hand committed crimes as well as the WalMart manager, the responding police, and every individual that (reportedly) called in an "active shooter".

Oh and that official police report that is supposedly a "probable cause statement" and purports to list crimes committed.......unless I missed it (and I went over it three times)......there were ZERO crimes listed. Just a lot of statements that clearly don't coincide with the otherwise stated charge of terrorist threats as the PC statement repeatedly states that the subjects intent was to see how the manager of that WalMart respected his 2A.....which a reasonable man would not have expected any problems in a chain store that has nationally recognized lawful open carry.
 
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