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OC Stop in Colorado

SeanO

Banned
Joined
Jun 26, 2017
Messages
11
Location
Colorado
Long time reader, first time poster. So a friend and I were out rucking today with rifles. We were contacted at rifle point and order to put our rifles down. Upon this we were "ordered" to hand over our IDs. Checks were run on or names and firearm serial numbers without permission. Any thoughts on where to start guys? I'll be requesting dispatch and body cam records tomorrow. Any help is greatly appreciated.
 

color of law

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Oct 7, 2007
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Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Get all the documentation first. Not to doubt you, but I'm only hearing your side of the story. And our forum rules do not accommodate long gun discussion. However, I would think the process you were subjected to would be permitted.
 

SeanO

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Jun 26, 2017
Messages
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Location
Colorado
Ah yes, forgot about the long gun rule. My training training was OCing a pistol as well, I was not. I have the dispatch records in hand, which don't say much. Currently waiting on the body cam footage to be reviewed because according to the PD "Any footage that contains images or personal identifying information about anyone not involved in the incident cannot be released".

Sorry about breaking the long gun post rule, hopefully the thread will stay open to discuss the legalities of the stop and we can leave the type of firearms out of it. Just don't know where else to post after being proned out by two officers with AR-15s.

Edit: corrected autocorrect words
 
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SeanO

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Jun 26, 2017
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Colorado
I'm currently looking for 2A lawyers in Colorado. If anyone has any recommendations they'd be greatly appreciated.

Eta: Spoke with one lawyer that said unless I was charged a lawyer can't do anything for me. That I need to have a "loss" of something. Tried explaining the illegal search and seizure aspect but he wasn't interested. Currently have another law firm that is somewhat interested and am waiting to hear back.
 
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BB62

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Which would be? Lol
Since you appear to be a newbie (no disrespect intended) with OC matters (or at least OC "confrontations") I just don't think that I should cloud (or you should cloud) the matter at hand by suggesting things that might possibly get you into a position that you can't see/are unsure of a way out.

Working your way through this matter will be a learning experience for you, and although the offending parties may not get a comeuppance directly, over time the steps you take as you work your way through things may have that effect indirectly.
 
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SeanO

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Jun 26, 2017
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Location
Colorado
Since you appear to be a newbie (no disrespect intended) with OC matters (or at least OC "confrontations") I just don't think that I should cloud (or you should cloud) the matter at hand by suggesting things that might possibly get you into a position that you can't see/are unsure of a way out.

Working your way through this matter will be a learning experience for you, and although the offending parties may not get a comeuppance directly, over time the steps you take as you work your way through things may have that effect indirectly.

I have plenty of experience in OC situations, Rich B. from the Connecticut forum can attest to that. I use to be a major OC advocate and pusher for OC training at PDs in Connecticut. So rant away with what you would do. I've been in some pretty sticky OC battles.
 

Fallschirjmäger

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Cumming, Georgia, USA
I don't see criminal charges being brought so that leaves only the venue of a Civil Suit to 'make you whole again'.

What losses did you suffer and what recompense will you petition the court for?
 

BB62

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I have plenty of experience in OC situations, Rich B. from the Connecticut forum can attest to that. I use to be a major OC advocate and pusher for OC training at PDs in Connecticut. So rant away with what you would do. I've been in some pretty sticky OC battles.
I'll try to avoid having the moderator smite me, but here goes...

Since you appear to be seasoned, I'd do the following:

1) File a records request for everything related to the stop
2) File a records request for the training material officers are given with regard to individuals openly carrying

Some other questions:
What reason was given for the stop?
Were you open carrying in or near a "sensitive place"?
Was "reasonable suspicion" voiced by the officers?

In Colorado are records public or not? In other words, are the authorities permitted to only release info/video to the party(s) involved?
.

After you got a better picture of things (and other readers here doing the same), and because of the fact that open carrying firearms other than sidearms outside of a group setting is likely to draw attention, concern, and likely police interaction - I'd openly carry a sidearm or two instead, with the serial # on my guns taped over, and without ID.

The question in the back of my mind is "Were you stopped because of where you were carrying, what you were carrying, because of your overall appearance (or some combination), or simply because you were OCing?"
 

lukaszu

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
73
Location
Brighton
Long time reader, first time poster. So a friend and I were out rucking today with rifles. We were contacted at rifle point and order to put our rifles down. Upon this we were "ordered" to hand over our IDs. Checks were run on or names and firearm serial numbers without permission. Any thoughts on where to start guys? I'll be requesting dispatch and body cam records tomorrow. Any help is greatly appreciated.

So here is the deal, you could win civil case however the cost of attorney fee will be much greater then the upside. Sounds like you were detained and not arrested... For how long? That is also important.... What was the reason for the stop. What are your damages claimed? I doubt you will find a lawyer that will honestly take your case but I wish you best of luck.
 

Grapeshot

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May 21, 2006
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35,317
Location
Valhalla
So here is the deal, you could win civil case however the cost of attorney fee will be much greater then the upside. Sounds like you were detained and not arrested... For how long? That is also important.... What was the reason for the stop. What are your damages claimed? I doubt you will find a lawyer that will honestly take your case but I wish you best of luck.
Detained but not arrested? Not free to leave?

Please explain.
 

Augustin

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May 20, 2009
Messages
337
Location
, ,
"I'd openly carry a sidearm or two instead, with the serial # on my guns taped over, and without ID."

In Colorado it is a class 1 misdemeanor to knowingly remove, deface, cover, alter, or destroy the manufacturer's serial number or any other distinguishing number or identification mark of a firearm.

See CO Rev Stat § 18-12-104 (2016)

Putting tape over the serial number of a firearm would be covering the number, according to Colorado law. This holds true for displaying a firearm at a gun show as well. This is how people get busted. Stupid and/or ignorant people do stupid and/or ignorant things.
 

color of law

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Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
In Colorado it is a class 1 misdemeanor to knowingly remove, deface, cover, alter, or destroy the manufacturer's serial number or any other distinguishing number or identification mark of a firearm.

See CO Rev Stat § 18-12-104 (2016)

Putting tape over the serial number of a firearm would be covering the number, according to Colorado law. This holds true for displaying a firearm at a gun show as well. This is how people get busted. Stupid and/or ignorant people do stupid and/or ignorant things.
Based on that law you cannot conceal your firearm because concealing the firearm would COVER the serial number. Stupid is as stupid does.
 

Fallschirjmäger

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Aug 4, 2007
Messages
3,823
Location
Cumming, Georgia, USA
Probably couldn't legally carry in a holster as most of those cover serial numbers.

... and lettuce not forget that it would be a criminal act to attach a light to the universal rail on the underside of a Glock's receiver.
... or attach 'target grips' to something like a early model S&W revolver
... or affix something like a Boonie Packer 'RediMag' to an AR
 
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F350

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2012
Messages
941
Location
The High Plains of Wyoming
In Colorado it is a class 1 misdemeanor to knowingly remove, deface, cover, alter, or destroy the manufacturer's serial number or any other distinguishing number or identification mark of a firearm.

See CO Rev Stat § 18-12-104 (2016)

Putting tape over the serial number of a firearm would be covering the number, according to Colorado law. This holds true for displaying a firearm at a gun show as well. This is how people get busted. Stupid and/or ignorant people do stupid and/or ignorant things.

In that case every S&W revolver with factory target grips is illegal in Colorado.
 

SeanO

Banned
Joined
Jun 26, 2017
Messages
11
Location
Colorado
I'll try to avoid having the moderator smite me, but here goes...

Since you appear to be seasoned, I'd do the following:

1) File a records request for everything related to the stop
2) File a records request for the training material officers are given with regard to individuals openly carrying

Some other questions:
What reason was given for the stop?
Were you open carrying in or near a "sensitive place"?
Was "reasonable suspicion" voiced by the officers?

In Colorado are records public or not? In other words, are the authorities permitted to only release info/video to the party(s) involved?
.

After you got a better picture of things (and other readers here doing the same), and because of the fact that open carrying firearms other than sidearms outside of a group setting is likely to draw attention, concern, and likely police interaction - I'd openly carry a sidearm or two instead, with the serial # on my guns taped over, and without ID.

The question in the back of my mind is "Were you stopped because of where you were carrying, what you were carrying, because of your overall appearance (or some combination), or simply because you were OCing?"


I've already done the first two items. Currently waiting on all the documents form the PD regarding the incident and open carry training. The reason was because of the firearms and the and to paraphrase "the way things are today". No sensitive location and RS was not voiced other than carrying guns is scary. I'd say it was a combination of both overall appearance and what was being carried.
 
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