No EMPTY Gun Holsters Allowed In St.Louis Zoo!

[Grapeshot]

I certainly hope that Missouri firearm owners are able to organize and attract enough support to be able to launch a thundering defense.

If the law is on your side, pound the law. If the facts are on your side, pound the facts. If neither are on your side pound the table.

The zoo's TRO and Permanent Injunction filings are all table pounding but it will take a good attorney and sufficient funding to pound the law and facts for the judge.

Smoke n' mirrors, pixie dust, and outright lies are the anti's stock and trade.

Watching this with keen interest.

 

[Ezek]

so... where you unable to enter even with an EMPTY holster?

 

[deepdiver]

so... where you unable to enter even with an EMPTY holster?

Entry with empty holster was ok. See page 6 of this thread (I would point you to a specific post but the particulars were discussed over several comments)

Also, after being asked about it for more than a week, the zoo finally, on Saturday morning according to the media stories, said they never have had a problem with empty holsters and said they "dispute" the story about Peyton, the OP of this thread. If this was a legit position/dispute they could have so responded the first 20 times they were asked about it and just stonewalled instead which led to all this. There is a heavy stench of the substance the zoo scoops up in large quantities hanging over the zoo management and the zoo spokeswoman.

 

[357SigFan]

http://fox2now.com/2015/06/13/dueling-demonstrators-target-st-louis-zoo-as-gun-debate-rages/

“It is extremely irresponsible for someone to come heavily armed into an area with children and frighten children this way,” Becky Morgan said.

Give me a break. First, NO ONE was 'heavily armed' or even talking about being 'heavily armed'. A handgun, maybe with an extra mag or two, does NOT constitute 'heavily armed'. Second, there is NOTHING irresponsible about a law abiding citizen being armed in proximity to children. Quite the opposite, actually (anyone that tries to tell me that me being armed around my daughter is irresponsible is going to get an earful). And third, the ONLY reason any children would be afraid of a person simply going about his or her business and carrying a gun is because liberal mouthpieces like her are pounding that nonsense into their heads.

The total lack of any common sense, logical or rational thought these days is utterly mind blowing and disheartening.

Several outlets did report on the anti's refusal to engage in dialogue.

KMOV oddly starts with the protesters.

http://www.kmov.com/story/29306868/...ainst-man-planning-to-bring-gun-onto-property


http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/loca...s-activist-protests-at-st-louis-zoo/71194676/

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_7852a473-b881-5507-a330-da2b98694ee7.html

Of course they won't get involved in a logical, rational dialogue/debate. As we all know, when people like that are faced with pure logic, which they are for some reason incapable of processing, they fall on their face and look like total buffoons.

 

[Mo]

so... where you unable to enter even with an EMPTY holster?

It's used a lot in motorcycle protective wear, jackets, pants and gloves, in place of leather. It's lighter and can be waterproofed or made as a mesh for more airflow on a hot day, and is a lot less expensive for production than leather. One caveat is that if you do suffer a crash the stuff is pretty much a one shot deal and you'll need new gear, BUT, it most probably will still be cheaper than going with leather in the first place.

I was also wondering how Amendment 5 will play in to all of this.

 

[Grapeshot]

It's used a lot in motorcycle protective wear, jackets, pants and gloves, in place of leather. It's lighter and can be waterproofed or made as a mesh for more airflow on a hot day, and is a lot less expensive for production than leather. One caveat is that if you do suffer a crash the stuff is pretty much a one shot deal and you'll need new gear, BUT, it most probably will still be cheaper than going with leather in the first place.

--Moderator note --^ ^ Off topic for this thread ^ ^

I was also wondering how Amendment 5 will play in to all of this.

Have no clue why your first three sentences are there.

 

[Ezek]

Entry with empty holster was ok. See page 6 of this thread (I would point you to a specific post but the particulars were discussed over several comments)

Also, after being asked about it for more than a week, the zoo finally, on Saturday morning according to the media stories, said they never have had a problem with empty holsters and said they "dispute" the story about Peyton, the OP of this thread. If this was a legit position/dispute they could have so responded the first 20 times they were asked about it and just stonewalled instead which led to all this. There is a heavy stench of the substance the zoo scoops up in large quantities hanging over the zoo management and the zoo spokeswoman.

I merely read BB62's response about the event and didn't see where he stated he was able to enter the premises with his empty holster, only that he was handed a TRO paper, engaged in some dialogue with the media and local LEO's, and attempted to engage in dialogue with some of the anti's, so I felt the question needed to be asked.

I will however state the media story that comments on "heavily armed" and being irresponsible nonsense needs to get one thing into their heads, to allow the entirety of patrons to be disarmed and therefore UNABLE to respond to a NON-LAC who is carrying concealed, and has intent to do harm to said patrons of said establishment is what is irresponsible, giving NO one any choice BUT to be a victim is reprehensible in its entirety.

wonder if the AG will get involved considering the TRO applied to EVERY citizen who was considering visiting the zoo.

 

[BB62]

I merely read BB62's response about the event and didn't see where he stated he was able to enter the premises with his empty holster...

"I sent out a notice earlier this morning to the press and the authorities, stating my intention to enter the Zoo with an EMPTY holster.

I just spoke to Chief Dotson by phone, and he indicated that there would be no problem, as long as everyone behaves themselves..."




http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...t-Louis-Zoo!&p=2147462&viewfull=1#post2147462

 

[sraacke]

TV/Radio host, gun trainer Paul Markel of Student of the Gun has posted a video stating that Jeff is a moron and is arguing that he was carrying a Tavor at the zoo.
https://www.facebook.com/studentoft...omment_id=882873771801624&notif_t=share_reply

 

[Grapeshot]

TV/Radio host, gun trainer Paul Markel of Student of the Gun has posted a video stating that Jeff is a moron and is arguing that he was carrying a Tavor at the zoo.
https://www.facebook.com/studentoft...omment_id=882873771801624&notif_t=share_reply

I see no connection/tie in between the above report including the LG picture and the zoo situation.

 

[logunowner]

TV/Radio host, gun trainer Paul Markel of Student of the Gun has posted a video stating that Jeff is a moron and is arguing that he was carrying a Tavor at the zoo.
https://www.facebook.com/studentoft...omment_id=882873771801624&notif_t=share_reply

It is hard for me to accept someone's opinion when he starts his rant, with "the guy is moron". Second he has no idea what is talking about, the guy had no intentions of carry a long gun into the zoo(in fact his instructions were just the opposite, no long guns), third he is suggesting you enter the Zoo with enough concealed weapons to fight an Army, yet the zoo was posted "NO Firearms". At least the "moron" showed enough respect to let the Zoo know his intentions.

I'm glad I haven't wasted any of my time listening to the "Student of the Gun", more could be learned from a well mannered third grader....

 

[kcgunfan]

It's hard to chase down the web of links, but the guy is claiming that Jeffry showed up with a long gun, which is completely false.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[sraacke]

The problem is, Paul is a well known gun trainer with a TV and a Radio show as well as a popular blog where he posted this video ( http://www.studentofthegun.com/blog/2015/06/3-things-your-concealed-carry-gun-cannot-do/ ) before he posted it to his Facebook page where I have been trying to counter his misinformation. If you see comments in the Facebook posts from Clinton Stephen Raacke, that's me. I respect Mr Markels experience but he regularly puts out misinformation and omits facts when he is reporting on events. When his errors are pointed out, instead of acknowledging them, he attacks the person who is trying to give him facts. His numerous fans are going on the information he is giving them and if that is incorrect it does nobody any good.

 

[logunowner]

The problem is, Paul is a well known gun trainer with a TV and a Radio show as well as a popular blog where he posted this video ( http://www.studentofthegun.com/blog/2015/06/3-things-your-concealed-carry-gun-cannot-do/ ) before he posted it to his Facebook page where I have been trying to counter his misinformation. If you see comments in the Facebook posts from Clinton Stephen Raacke, that's me. I respect Mr Markels experience but he regularly puts out misinformation and omits facts when he is reporting on events. When his errors are pointed out, instead of acknowledging them, he attacks the person who is trying to give him facts. His numerous fans are going on the information he is giving them and if that is incorrect it does nobody any good.

Thanks for the post, I'm not sure how to combat this guy, it is unfortunate.
I did go to his Facebook page and I see what you are saying, he has no appetite for the truth.

 

[WalkingWolf]

James Yeager's brother?

 

[Ezek]

"I sent out a notice earlier this morning to the press and the authorities, stating my intention to enter the Zoo with an EMPTY holster.

I just spoke to Chief Dotson by phone, and he indicated that there would be no problem, as long as everyone behaves themselves..."




http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...t-Louis-Zoo!&p=2147462&viewfull=1#post2147462

This implies he did, but does not actually state he did, so rather then assume I would like to be sure.

 

[Ezek]

TV/Radio host, gun trainer Paul Markel of Student of the Gun has posted a video stating that Jeff is a moron and is arguing that he was carrying a Tavor at the zoo.
https://www.facebook.com/studentoft...omment_id=882873771801624&notif_t=share_reply

The tavor sar is a fairly expensive rifle.. I doubt anyone would want to "protest" or even bring it anywhere near hoplophobes, at least I wouldn't. Although it is an awsome and fun rifle.. Love the Ergos of it.

 

[BB62]

This will be my last post on this thread, as the action has been moved to the legal arena:

A few minutes ago I got off the phone with the judge (who, btw is going to be the judge for the foreseeable future) and the attorney for the Zoo, Adam Hirtz, of the Lowenbaum Partnership LLC.

Of course the Zoo felt is was imperative that the TRO be continued in the meanwhile (because it was important to his client, dontcha know), but said that I could agree to a permanent restraining order if liked. How generous.

The judge granted a 60 day extension so I can find an attorney. (of course, in the meanwhile I will also see what I can do to solicit funds for a legal challenge, find out how best to challenge things, etc.)

In response to my question, the judge said if I were to find an attorney prior to then, and if everyone's schedule was open, the preliminary injunction hearing could be held prior to then.

In response to my question, the judge refused to describe what I'm expected to do at/bring to a preliminary injunction hearing.

In response to a later question, in the event that I was unable or unable/unwilling to bear the cost of legal counsel, I repeated the question about what would I need to do/bring to a preliminary injunction hearing - the judge said to contact the Zoo's attorney and suggested (as I recall) that there would be another tele-conference held.

 

[sraacke]

SotG Paul Markel contiues his attack on open carry

A few posts ago I let everyone here know that Paul Markel was decided to use his radio show Student of the Gun to misinform the public about the activities of some open carriers. He put out a video stating that activists were walking around the zoo with Tavors and other rifles and shotguns.
After I and others got on his Facebook feed and pointed out that there were no rifles at the zoo, just empty holsters he dug in his heels and insulted those trying to point out the facts to him.
Today he used his radio show to address open carry again. He insulted the OCT guys who were photographed at Chipotlies and he stated that the guy carrying a rifle at the Atlanta airport was demonstrating for the right to open carry pistols. And of course he mentioned the zoo at least twice including saying that the zoo is not the place to carry your Travor.
Then he goes into listing those things he thinks which to him are much more important than fighting for open carry rights or educating others about the rights they have to carry.
I used to b a supporter of Student of the Gun had hoped to travel to Mississippi to attend a defensive pistol class of his. Not any more.

Link to the radio show- https://www.studentofthegunradio.com/final-word-on-open-carry-5-issues-that-are-more-important/

 

[logunowner]

A few posts ago I let everyone here know that Paul Markel was decided to use his radio show Student of the Gun to misinform the public about the activities of some open carriers. He put out a video stating that activists were walking around the zoo with Tavors and other rifles and shotguns.
After I and others got on his Facebook feed and pointed out that there were no rifles at the zoo, just empty holsters he dug in his heels and insulted those trying to point out the facts to him.
Today he used his radio show to address open carry again. He insulted the OCT guys who were photographed at Chipotlies and he stated that the guy carrying a rifle at the Atlanta airport was demonstrating for the right to open carry pistols. And of course he mentioned the zoo at least twice including saying that the zoo is not the place to carry your Travor.
Then he goes into listing those things he thinks which to him are much more important than fighting for open carry rights or educating others about the rights they have to carry.
I used to b a supporter of Student of the Gun had hoped to travel to Mississippi to attend a defensive pistol class of his. Not any more.

Link to the radio show- https://www.studentofthegunradio.com/final-word-on-open-carry-5-issues-that-are-more-important/

Thanks for your post. I will be sending an email to each of his "sponsors" to let them know what an idiot they are supporting.....