Need clarification on Texas open carry rules

[HPmatt]

What does "flexible" mean? Ignore them, since they are breaking no laws, or detain them only briefly while checking papers?

I anticipate it w/b a low key request for 'papers' - DL and CHL, with (their) gun kept holstered. I don't expect any merchants to post rather large 30.07 signage - other than Whole Foods and Whataburger (Dallas jurisdiction).


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[MAC702]

I anticipate it w/b a low key request for 'papers' - DL and CHL,...

So detainment and demand for papers. Just making sure.

 

[nonameisgood]

I anticipate it w/b a low key request for 'papers' - DL and CHL, with (their) gun kept holstered. I don't expect any merchants to post rather large 30.07 signage - other than Whole Foods and Whataburger (Dallas jurisdiction).


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Whole Paycheck is odd. They post then unpost then repost, but only certain doors. Whatadrunk is CC friendly, and after watching the security cam footage, OC there after 10 pm might be dangerous. I guess if they posted a "no drunks" sign they'd go out of business or the drunk would just drive through.


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[qednick]

I anticipate it w/b a low key request for 'papers' - DL and CHL, with (their) gun kept holstered. I don't expect any merchants to post rather large 30.07 signage - other than Whole Foods and Whataburger (Dallas jurisdiction).


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Isn't there an IKEA up that way? They are notoriously anti-gun. Wouldn't even let a uniformed cop in once.

 

[Grapeshot]

Isn't there an IKEA up that way? They are notoriously anti-gun. Wouldn't even let a uniformed cop in once.

Indeed that did happen; however, it carried the anti policy of the store beyond their intention.

The retailer released this statement: We regret that there was a misunderstanding of our weapon policy in our College Park Store. Our weapon policy does not apply to law enforcement officers. We are taking steps to ensure that this is clear for all our co-workers.

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/l...Told-to-Leave-Gun-Outside-Ikea-266105531.html

 

[HPmatt]

Isn't there an IKEA up that way? They are notoriously anti-gun. Wouldn't even let a uniformed cop in once.

Ikea is in Frisco - about 20 miles north of us up the N Dallas Tollway - just north/west of Plano - which is now fully built out. You probably can't OC but burkas are okay - in keeping w Swedish modesty...


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[solus]

only comment...

glad the nice LE Chief got a taste of the common man's perspective vice the elitist he is used to, including that he got ignored by IKEA until the news media stepped.

and the stuff is over priced...

ipse

 

[MSG Laigaie]

I have been talking with a friend in Texas about your laws and LEO contact. I have difficulty with part of the conversation and I would like a bit of clarification.

He refers to "informing merchants" in preparation of OC. My question is "Why?"

How many of you have contacted the "local PeeDee" and inquired about "policy" on contact between Legally Armed Citizens, both OC and CC, from the initial 911 call to actual contact? I would hate to find out next month that the PeeDee had not thought about it yet.

Remember that YOU are not an adversary to them. You are Legally Armed Citizens.

 

[stealthyeliminator]

Earlier in the thread there was some discussion about whether or not "drop-leg" type holsters would be considered "belt holsters." Of course the answers given earlier are still valid. I just wanted to mention that it appears that Dallas PD will be instructed to consider drop-leg holsters (that attach to your belt) belt holsters. They say:

What is a “belt holster” and what kind of holster would be a violation?
The law does not define a “belt holster”; the law just states you must carry your handgun in a “shoulder or belt holster.” A “drop down” holster attached to your belt is considered to be a belt holster.

http://www.dallascitynews.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Dallas-Open-Carry-FAQ.pdf

 

[stealthyeliminator]

I have been talking with a friend in Texas about your laws and LEO contact. I have difficulty with part of the conversation and I would like a bit of clarification.

He refers to "informing merchants" in preparation of OC. My question is "Why?"

How many of you have contacted the "local PeeDee" and inquired about "policy" on contact between Legally Armed Citizens, both OC and CC, from the initial 911 call to actual contact? I would hate to find out next month that the PeeDee had not thought about it yet.

Remember that YOU are not an adversary to them. You are Legally Armed Citizens.

I haven't spoken to any businesses or the PD about it. I think most on our local force are reasonable, and if us local guys simple begin OCing normally and not making a big deal, they will likely come to reasonable policies on their own. I think I am unlikely to influence their policy by contacting them ahead of time.

I don't plan on ever contacting a business ahead of time to inquire about their OC policy. I think if you walk in, normally OCing, they are much less likely to be bothered by it in that case, than they are likely to be hesitant to give you a "go ahead" in advance, left to their imagination rather than seeing the peacefulness of the OC first hand.

 

[hovercat]

If detained/arrested in TX, you are required to identify yourself. This can be done verbally, by stating your name and county of residence. Not certain if address is required. You are not required to produce papers.
If carrying under a license, you are required to produce the LTC license and other ID if requested by a LEO.

 

[MAC702]

If detained/arrested in TX, you are required to identify yourself. This can be done verbally, by stating your name and county of residence. Not certain if address is required. You are not required to produce papers.
If carrying under a license, you are required to produce the LTC license and other ID if requested by a LEO.

All [public] carrying [of modern sidearms] in nanny Texas is under a license.

 

[Glockster]

If detained/arrested in TX, you are required to identify yourself. This can be done verbally, by stating your name and county of residence. Not certain if address is required. You are not required to produce papers.
If carrying under a license, you are required to produce the LTC license and other ID if requested by a LEO.

You are required upon "demand" to produce both the CHL/LTC AND your DL if you are carrying under license (not other ID).

TEX GV. CODE ANN. § 411.205 : Texas Statutes – Section 411.205: DISPLAYING LICENSE; PENALTY

(a) If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder’s person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder’s driver’s license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder’s handgun license. A person who fails or refuses to display the license and identification as required by this subsection is subject to suspension of the person’s license as provided by Section 411.187.

 

[stealthyeliminator]

... "or identification certificate issued by the department"...

Hovercat, strike "detained" leaving only arrested, unless you know of some other statute than the failure to identify that one might be violating by not identifying themself after being merely detained... Once arrested, you would be in violation by intentionally withholding name, residence address, or date of birth.

If detained, one is prohibited from giving false information, but they are not necessarily in violation by withholding information.

Failure to identify is linked earlier in thread, but here it is again so one doesn't have to hunt: http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/PE/htm/PE.38.htm#38.02

 

[solus]

Earlier in the thread there was some discussion about whether or not "drop-leg" type holsters would be considered "belt holsters." Of course the answers given earlier are still valid. I just wanted to mention that it appears that Dallas PD will be instructed to consider drop-leg holsters (that attach to your belt) belt holsters. They say:

http://www.dallascitynews.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Dallas-Open-Carry-FAQ.pdf

of course this is 'dropped leg' is based on case law not the "opinion" from nice flunky in the DPD...

i am sure their perspective will hold up during judicial proceeding...

ipse

 

[solus]

I haven't spoken to any businesses or the PD about it. I think most on our local force are reasonable, and if us local guys simple begin OCing normally and not making a big deal, they will likely come to reasonable policies on their own. I think I am unlikely to influence their policy by contacting them ahead of time.

I don't plan on ever contacting a business ahead of time to inquire about their OC policy. I think if you walk in, normally OCing, they are much less likely to be bothered by it in that case, than they are likely to be hesitant to give you a "go ahead" in advance, left to their imagination rather than seeing the peacefulness of the OC first hand.

sure they well...

ipse

 

[solus]

You are required upon "demand" to produce both the CHL/LTC AND your DL if you are carrying under license (not other ID).

205 does not quantify the term 'demand' either...

glad to see you folk are getting the gist of things that where foreseen when the law passed...

ipse

 

[stealthyeliminator]

of course this is 'dropped leg' is based on case law not the "opinion" from nice flunky in the DPD...

i am sure their perspective will hold up during judicial proceeding...

ipse

I thought about mentioning this very thing, but it should be pretty much clear from earlier conversation that what you are getting at here is true... I just shared as information, I'm not suggesting someone use this to prepare a legal defense.

sure they well...

ipse

Meh, we will see. I'll let you know how it goes. If you get a collect call, I'm calling from the jail.

205 does not quantify the term 'demand' either...
...

Astute observation

But who gets the advantage? Automatically the LEO? Or could a good argument shift it the other way? I'm guessing you think it's doubtful the LAC could get any advantage from this.

 

[nonameisgood]

It's a spectrum, really.
Inquire. Ask. Demand. Threaten. Force.
"Do you have a license?"
"Can I see your license?"
"I need to see your license!"
"I need to see your license NOW, or else!!!"
"Feet back and spread 'em" <bends you over and removes your wallet>


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[MAC702]

It's a spectrum, really.
Inquire. Ask. Demand. Threaten. Force.
"Do you have a license?"
"Can I see your license?"
"I need to see your license!"...

Answer #1 with anything.
Answer #2 with "No."

Every encounter gets to #3 when we have lack of freedom; it's just how many steps you want to take to get there.