Mariners' Museum in Newport News

[jnojr]

Ironically, I received my invitation to renew my membership in yesterday's mail.

I hope you returned it to them with a letter declining to renew and stating why.

 

[2a4all]

Jogger Groped on the Noland Trail

Well, it finally happened.

See this (WVEC-TV) video, but notice what some joggers are carrying for protection. The park and trail are posted as "No Weapons".

http://www.wvec.com/my-city/nnews/Woman-groped-while-running-on-trail-in-Newport-News-138473379.html

I wonder how museum security will resolve this lady's exhibition of her "protection".

 

[Grapeshot]

Well, it finally happened.

See this (WVEC-TV) video, but notice what some joggers are carrying for protection. The park and trail are posted as "No Weapons".

http://www.wvec.com/my-city/nnews/Woman-groped-while-running-on-trail-in-Newport-News-138473379.html

I wonder how museum security will resolve this lady's exhibition of her "protection".

There have been other problems in the area - no place is immune.

http://spotcrime.com/va/newport+news

http://articles.dailypress.com/1996-06-21/news/9606210084_1_suspects-crime-line-assault

http://jamesriverjournal.com/crime/16278-oyster-point-rapist-keep-those-tips-coming.html

 

[ocholsteroc]

A knife? a man can disarm you, mace really? :banghead:
Gun
Mace
Kinfe
EDC


Hands on is the last thing I would do, and a dog? wow.

I need to talk to a lawyer about batons, I saw a guy OCing one at a gunshow but what about cc? they arn't spring loaded.

 

[Grapeshot]

A knife? a man can disarm you, mace really? :banghead:
Gun
Mace
Kinfe
EDC


Hands on is the last thing I would do, and a dog? wow.

I need to talk to a lawyer about batons, I saw a guy OCing one at a gunshow but what about cc? they arn't spring loaded.

No other defensive tool is specifically authorized by statute to be CCd other than a handgun.
http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/18.2-308.HTM

Now a nice hiking/walking stick (can you say crudgel) or even hand held batons would make an interesting choice. Training would make it even better.

 

[2a4all]

No other defensive tool is specifically authorized by statute to be CCd other than a handgun.
http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/18.2-308.HTM

Now a nice hiking/walking stick (can you say crudgel) or even hand held batons would make an interesting choice. Training would make it even better.

Well, 18.2-308 is very explicit in the enumeration of prohibited concealed weapons, except for that catchall phrase "of like kind".

The woman's knife was a folding one, with a blade that looked to be about 3 or so inches long, which she wasn't shy about displaying (brandishing?). All of the edged weapons listed in the statute have hilts, which her folding knife lacks. In at least one VA court decision, the judge ruled that a steak knife wasn't "of like kind" because it lacked a hilt.

Somewhere on here there is (was) a thread about legal blade lengths. I checked the NN Code, and couldn't find any reference to an allowable length. The state statutes (that I found) impose a limit of 3" or less on school grounds (unless it's a tool, e.g. kitchen utensil). Someone please verify?

So, while her knife can clearly be used as a weapon, and does not appear to be specifically banned, is it illegal to carry it concealed? (Brandishing only applies to edged weapons with blades of 12" or longer. http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+coh+18.2-282.1+702326)

Is this the "Folding Knife Loophole"?

 

[ocholsteroc]

Well, 18.2-308 is very explicit in the enumeration of prohibited concealed weapons, except for that catchall phrase "of like kind".

The woman's knife was a folding one, with a blade that looked to be about 3 or so inches long, which she wasn't shy about displaying (brandishing?). All of the edged weapons listed in the statute have hilts, which her folding knife lacks. In at least one VA court decision, the judge ruled that a steak knife wasn't "of like kind" because it lacked a hilt.

Somewhere on here there is (was) a thread about legal blade lengths. I checked the NN Code, and couldn't find any reference to an allowable length. The state statutes (that I found) impose a limit of 3" or less on school grounds (unless it's a tool, e.g. kitchen utensil). Someone please verify?

So, while her knife can clearly be used as a weapon, and does not appear to be specifically banned, is it illegal to carry it concealed? (Brandishing only applies to edged weapons with blades of 12" or longer.

Is this the "Folding Knife Loophole"?

I keep my knife visible, I knew a cop from class who did the same.

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+coh+18.2-282.1+702326

Where do these fall under?

 

[Grapeshot]

No other defensive tool is specifically authorized by statute to be CCd other than a handgun.
http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/18.2-308.HTM

Now a nice hiking/walking stick (can you say crudgel) or even hand held batons would make an interesting choice. Training would make it even better.

Well, 18.2-308 is very explicit in the enumeration of prohibited concealed weapons, except for that catchall phrase "of like kind".

The woman's knife was a folding one, with a blade that looked to be about 3 or so inches long, which she wasn't shy about displaying (brandishing?). All of the edged weapons listed in the statute have hilts, which her folding knife lacks. In at least one VA court decision, the judge ruled that a steak knife wasn't "of like kind" because it lacked a hilt.

Somewhere on here there is (was) a thread about legal blade lengths. I checked the NN Code, and couldn't find any reference to an allowable length. The state statutes (that I found) impose a limit of 3" or less on school grounds (unless it's a tool, e.g. kitchen utensil). Someone please verify?

So, while her knife can clearly be used as a weapon, and does not appear to be specifically banned, is it illegal to carry it concealed? (Brandishing only applies to edged weapons with blades of 12" or longer. http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+coh+18.2-282.1+702326)

Is this the "Folding Knife Loophole"?

Kind of knew that I left myself open for that.

With such a variety of divergient knife laws not covered by preemption I didn't want somebody to misapply a post here. That and "like kind" leaves the decision to the judge too often and not to my liking.

A well written statute changing CHP to CWP would be a definite improvement - or best do away with the object/tool identification and let legal honest citizens provide for their self-defense by any means - intent and results being the determining factors. I'm sure User (Dan Hawes) could expand/expound on that quite well.

 

[peter nap]

Kind of knew that I left myself open for that.

With such a variety of divergient knife laws not covered by preemption I didn't want somebody to misapply a post here. That and "like kind" leaves the decision to the judge too often and not to my liking.

A well written statute changing CHP to CWP would be a definite improvement - or best do away with the object/tool identification and let legal honest citizens provide for their self-defense by any means - intent and results being the determining factors. I'm sure User (Dan Hawes) could expand/expound on that quite well.

There is preemption of a sort Grape. The Dillon Rule.
No subdivision of the state can enact a law without the permission of the state. So using the Code as permission as localities do, they cannot enact a local code more restrictive than the state code.

 

[Marco]

In at least one VA court decision, the judge ruled that a steak knife wasn't "of like kind" because it lacked a hilt.

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...-firearm-but-related!-Va-Knife-laws-vagueness

 

[Dreamer]

I keep my knife visible, I knew a cop from class who did the same.

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+coh+18.2-282.1+702326

Where do these fall under?

I can't speak to VA law, but in NC, ANY knife that folds and is designed by the manufacturer to be carrued in the pocket is legal to carry in a pocket. There is no blade length restriction, no mention of locking or assisted opening mechanisms, or hilts. The legality of pocket carry of knives in NC revolves around the INTENT of the manufacturer as to how the knife may be legally carried...


Our knife law is actually pretty straight-forward in NC. However, there are a lot of "urban myths" (the 3.25" blade length myth for instance) that people perpetuate, and the fact is that knife law is so infrequently addressed in the courts and in the LE academy that even most LEOs don't have a clue and perpetuate the stupid, false, and inaccurate urban myths.

I actually had to print copies of the statute and distribute them to the Campus Police at ECU when I was in grad school down there, because they didn't know JACK about knife law, and insisted that although my little Wenger "gentlemans pocket knife" was a knife, and therefore technically prohibited on campus, that it' didn't apply to that knife because it's blade was only 1.25" long and it didn't lock. They also said that my Gerber multitool WAS illegal to carry on campus because it had a serrated locking blade.

Both assertions were wrong. Under NC law, the tiny Wenger was actually a violation, and the multitool was 100% legal because it had screw drivers and pliers on it which I used to maintain and adjust our printing press in the printmaking labs, therefore giving it exemption under the code as a "tool for maintenance of academic equipment"...

 

[Grapeshot]

There is preemption of a sort Grape. The Dillon Rule.
No subdivision of the state can enact a law without the permission of the state. So using the Code as permission as localities do, they cannot enact a local code more restrictive than the state code.

Still the Dillon Rule places one before the bench when charged with a local ordinance not in conformity with the Code. That is time and money I'd rather not front, especially when the magic wand of the GA can fix it. Directly applicable preemption makes it much more likely that such things will never get beyond the magistrate level.

I know - in a perfect world..............:uhoh:

 

[2a4all]

No other defensive tool is specifically authorized by statute to be CCd other than a handgun.
http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/18.2-308.HTM

Now a nice hiking/walking stick (can you say crudgel) or even hand held batons would make an interesting choice. Training would make it even better.

It occurred to me that one might attach a suitable holster to a dog harness and let the dog carry the gun. When threatened, call the dog to heel.:dude:

 

[Grapeshot]

It occurred to me that one might attach a suitable holster to a dog harness and let the dog carry the gun. When threatened, call the dog to heel.:dude:

I would submit that the dog was under your immediate control (dogs are a possession btw) and that you therefore have constructive and actual possession thereof.

Try that with an illegal drug and let me know how it works out for you when you deny that you have any drugs.
Guess the dog's defense would be he was only keeping it for a friend. :lol: