magazine failure to feed issues

[Nascar24Glock]

I have a G26 and a G27, both of which are gen3's, and though I don't shoot them very much, neither one of them have ever had any problems of any kind whatsoever. I installed a Pierce mag extension on both or their primary magazines to allow my shooting hand to gain a better purchase on the guns. In your case, I am leaning towards one of your hands contacting your larger magazine at the time of firing. I know I had something like this happen to my primary carry gen3 G23 (was shooting from a rest once and the recoil apparently caused the magazine to seat deeper into its well causing a stovepipe). In particular, I would bet one or both of your hands is causing the larger magazine to bend towards the backstrap at the moment of firing. This would be a natural thing since recoil pushes the gun up and back.

This is possible. Since the Glock 27 has space on the grip for only two non-trigger fingers (middle and ring), I usually rest my pinky finger on the very bottom of the stock magazine (which would be about 3/4 of an inch from the bottom on the 15-round magazine that I'm having issues with). I'll test that theory out next time I go shooting and see if leaving the pinky finger off of it makes any difference.

The only FTF issues I have seen with Glock 27 and 17's is from limp wristing. In both cases they were girls. The first one has gotten lots of training and now fired a couple thousand Rds and no longer has the issue. The second I'm working on. Not to say there can't be other causes. But they are very reliable feeding arms.

Well, unfortunately, as I mentioned earlier, I have very small hands for a man. More specifically, my hands are basically the size of a girl's hands. According to this website (http://www.celtarts.com/ring_size.htm), my hands, using my right ring finger size (6.75) as a proxy, are closer to a woman's average hand size (7) than a man's average hand size (10). So, any issues with "girls commonly limp-wristing a Glock", perhaps due to smaller hand sizes, may apply to this situation.

since you said it was new i would check and insure you in fact got a g22 magazine and not a g17 magazine. they can be easily mixed up just by glancing at them

It is a Glock 22 magazine. The magazine has holes to indicate 15 rounds, not 17; the rear side of the magazine has the inscription ".40" at the top; and the top of the magazine towards the rear has the inscription ".40" (although, interestingly, the front of the top of the magazine, where the magazine contacts with the slide stop, has the inscription "9.", just like my stock 9-round magazines).

 

[mobiushky]

This is possible. Since the Glock 27 has space on the grip for only two non-trigger fingers (middle and ring), I usually rest my pinky finger on the very bottom of the stock magazine (which would be about 3/4 of an inch from the bottom on the 15-round magazine that I'm having issues with). I'll test that theory out next time I go shooting and see if leaving the pinky finger off of it makes any difference.



Well, unfortunately, as I mentioned earlier, I have very small hands for a man. More specifically, my hands are basically the size of a girl's hands. According to this website (http://www.celtarts.com/ring_size.htm), my hands, using my right ring finger size (6.75) as a proxy, are closer to a woman's average hand size (7) than a man's average hand size (10). So, any issues with "girls commonly limp-wristing a Glock", perhaps due to smaller hand sizes, may apply to this situation.



It is a Glock 22 magazine. The magazine has holes to indicate 15 rounds, not 17; the rear side of the magazine has the inscription ".40" at the top; and the top of the magazine towards the rear has the inscription ".40" (although, interestingly, the front of the top of the magazine, where the magazine contacts with the slide stop, has the inscription "9.", just like my stock 9-round magazines).

Does it say .40 on the follower? Just curious.

 

[Michigander]

Two things in my experience can cause this. Either lubrication/dirt and debris, or leaving it completely loaded for extended periods then attempting to fire the ammo that has been sitting it in the entire time. Keep them clean and oiled, and leave a round or two of capacity empty on magazines like glock's which have tiny followers to maximize capacity, and it won't happen.

I definitely would not jump to replace the spring. If the spring has a compression issue, taking the magazine apart and cleaning it will let the spring "breath" well enough to make it good to go again, at least in my experience, so long as it isn't topped off for great lengths of time.

Not that I would say absolutely don't leave a magazine with a small follower topped off, just that I would unload and reload it no less than monthly, and preferably every couple weeks just to be sure.

 

[Nascar24Glock]

Does it say .40 on the follower? Just curious.

The follower does say ".40" on it.

Two things in my experience can cause this. Either lubrication/dirt and debris, or leaving it completely loaded for extended periods then attempting to fire the ammo that has been sitting it in the entire time. Keep them clean and oiled, and leave a round or two of capacity empty on magazines like glock's which have tiny followers to maximize capacity, and it won't happen.

I definitely would not jump to replace the spring. If the spring has a compression issue, taking the magazine apart and cleaning it will let the spring "breath" well enough to make it good to go again, at least in my experience, so long as it isn't topped off for great lengths of time.

Not that I would say absolutely don't leave a magazine with a small follower topped off, just that I would unload and reload it no less than monthly, and preferably every couple weeks just to be sure.

I have stored this particular 15-round magazine completely unloaded. For the stock magazines, I load 8 out of 9 rounds and rotate them about once every other month.

I may try taking it apart and putting some oil on it.

 

[mobiushky]

Metal springs weaken over time due to metal fatigue. Metal fatigue is the name we use to explain the microscopic cracks that develop in the crystalline structure of the metal. Those cracks are created by repeated deformation of the metal. As the metal is deformed the cracks become worse. The more repeated the metal is deformed, the worse the cracks will get. Eventually the metal's ability to return to shape weakens. Unfortunately there is a lot of mythology in the firearms community about how metal fatigue works. Most of the mythology points to leaving metal springs compressed over long periods of time. Except that the function of metal fatigue requires repeated deformation. Once a metal spring is compressed it does not continue to form the minute fractures. The methodology of the fracturing requires compression followed by extension followed by compression etc, etc.

In other words, compressing a spring for long periods of time will have no affect on the structural integrity of the spring unless you hyper extend the spring past it's rebound point, spring creep. What actually weakens springs is the constant action of compressing and then releasing the spring repetitively. This is called cyclic loading. When you load and unload a magazine you are introducing and exacerbating microscopic fractures. That is the only time when those fractures occur. Leaving a magazine loaded will have far less impact on metal fatigue than to be cycling the spring frequently. Fatigue is irreversible. Once it's started, it will continue and accumulate over time as you compress and relax the spring.

This might help people interested in understand the mechanism of metal fatigue:

http://www.epi-eng.com/mechanical_engineering_basics/fatigue_in_metals.htm#cumulative

http://larrylawson.net/fatigue.htm

If you're really a glutton for punishment you could read:

ASM Handbook Volume 19, Fatigue And Fracture

But generally only structural engineers read that kind of stuff.

 

[g21sfpistol]

Two things in my experience can cause this. Either lubrication/dirt and debris, or leaving it completely loaded for extended periods then attempting to fire the ammo that has been sitting it in the entire time. Keep them clean and oiled, and leave a round or two of capacity empty on magazines like glock's which have tiny followers to maximize capacity, and it won't happen.

I definitely would not jump to replace the spring. If the spring has a compression issue, taking the magazine apart and cleaning it will let the spring "breath" well enough to make it good to go again, at least in my experience, so long as it isn't topped off for great lengths of time.

Not that I would say absolutely don't leave a magazine with a small follower topped off, just that I would unload and reload it no less than monthly, and preferably every couple weeks just to be sure.

i leave my mag fully loaded with no issues. even my trainning mags that are 2 coils shorter than a new spring still work just fine. and they have been loaded for years

 

[Michigander]

i leave my mag fully loaded with no issues. even my trainning mags that are 2 coils shorter than a new spring still work just fine. and they have been loaded for years

I am not a metallurgist, just a mechanic who carries. I can tell you from experience that I've seen it with a variety of handgun magazines belonging to me, friends, and associates. Even wolff springs acknowledges this as a problem. I wish all the best for anyone who thinks I am wrong and carries accordingly.

http://www.gunsprings.com/faq

5. How often should I change magazine spring? Should I unload my magazines, rotate magazines, load with fewer than the maximum rounds?
Magazine springs in semi-auto pistols are one of the most critical springs and are the subject of much debate and concern. Magazines which are kept fully loaded for long periods of time, such as in law enforcement and personal/home defense applications, will generally be subject to more fatigue than the weekend shooter's magazine springs in which the magazines are loaded up only when shooting.

Magazine design and capacity also affect the longevity of the spring. In many older pistol designs, maximum capacity was not the always the goal such as with the 7 round 1911 Colt magazines will last for years fully loaded. There was room for more spring material in these guns which reduces overall stress and increases the usable life of the spring.

More recently higher capacity magazine have become popular. These are designed to hold more rounds with less spring material often in the same space. This puts more stress on the spring and will cause it to fatigue at a faster rate. Unloading these magazines a round or two will help the life of the spring. Rotating fully loaded magazines will also help the problem somewhat but it is not always practical.

In applications where the magazine must be kept loaded at all times, a high quality magazine spring such as Wolff extra power magazine springs, will provide maximum life. Regular replacement of magazine springs will provide the best defense against failure from weak magazine springs. Regular shooting of the pistol is the best way to be sure the springs are still functioning reliably.

 

[cmr287]

Weak springs... If they are Glocks, take everyrhing to rhe and they will give you BrandNew ones.

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

 

[WalkingWolf]

I have mags made in 1937, they are always loaded, and as military surplus, I assume they were used well. I have absolutely no issues, guess the metal in 1937 was actually better than the metal used today. If any current high end firearm has mag issues I would not settle for a firearm of the quality. There is no good reason for a Glock mag to fail, or have issues, yes Glock should certainly replace them, but Glock should find the source of their issues. Or any other manufacturer that claims to sell a top of the line handgun. My mother carried a Colt 25 ACP in her purse, she bought it before I was born. The gun was always loaded, and before she died I fired the gun without any issues, of any kind. Not one failure to feed with a loaded magazine that had been fully loaded for decades.

It amazes me that people will accept this from Glock, but from another manufacturer the guns are labelled a POS.

 

[mobiushky]

NM, not worth it. OP, sent you a PM.

 

[WalkingWolf]

Notice the OP never mentions the brand of the actual mag? Yeah. There are a LOT of non-Glock made mags on the market that people buy thinking they are Glock.

I have off brand 1911 mags I have had for years, no problems, and they are always loaded. Most times issues are related to ammo, unless the mags just fall apart. Inconsistent light loaded ammo, such as WWB are known to cause problems. They cause failures for two reasons. 1)The round fails to eject because there is not enough power to cycle the slide fully resulting in either a FTE, or combined with a off feed round. 2)The fire casing is ejected but because the slide does not fully retract the slide grabs the next round on the groove instead of the heal of the brass. What this causes is the round to be jammed in a upward angle totally unable to chamber.

More people are using cheap ammo, to save money. Or they want lighter recoil, that lighter recoil comes at a price, and that is reliability. If the mags are functional, I doubt his problem is the mags.

PS I have found that shorter OAL are more reliable than longer OAL. But one has to be aware of pressure increases when using Shorter OAL.

I do two things when working up loads for semi autos. I load one bullet in the mag, and check if the slide is locking back on every shot. That will tell you if your slide is fully retracting. Next comes full mag checks at rapid fire, which usually once a load passes check one, check two goes perfect.

 

[marshaul]

...guess the metal in 1937 was actually better than the metal used today...

Definitely not.

 

[WalkingWolf]

Definitely not.

Well, I am not so sure, I have Star Super, I have owned many Stars. And not once had a feeding or ejecting issue with any of them. And as far as I know other star owners have not. There are claims my gun was built from a scrapped German battleship, I really don't know. Evidently Star went bankrupt from mismanagement because they built tanks for firearms that just keep on going. I have never heard of a verifiable Star KaBoom, though I have had many people try to tell me what POS Stars are. Their reasoning, they are inexpensive(cheap), and that they went out of business.

I really do not think the OP's problem is the magazine, many issues relate to improper ammo, or failure to maintain the firearm. I do know that Glock owners seem to have more than their fair share of problems. Considering that I would rather pay $300 for a used Israeli Hi Power, or $200 for a used surplus Star, than $500 for a Glock. I would take one if it was given to me though.

Glocks are good police guns, and similar guns because they do not require as much training as a 1911, IMO. They were a large reason for the change from DA revolvers to DAO semi autos. I wish that training would return to marksmanship for officers instead of just throwing lead everywhere.

 

[Nascar24Glock]

Well, I am not so sure, I have Star Super, I have owned many Stars. And not once had a feeding or ejecting issue with any of them. And as far as I know other star owners have not. There are claims my gun was built from a scrapped German battleship, I really don't know. Evidently Star went bankrupt from mismanagement because they built tanks for firearms that just keep on going. I have never heard of a verifiable Star KaBoom, though I have had many people try to tell me what POS Stars are. Their reasoning, they are inexpensive(cheap), and that they went out of business.

I really do not think the OP's problem is the magazine, many issues relate to improper ammo, or failure to maintain the firearm. I do know that Glock owners seem to have more than their fair share of problems. Considering that I would rather pay $300 for a used Israeli Hi Power, or $200 for a used surplus Star, than $500 for a Glock. I would take one if it was given to me though.

Glocks are good police guns, and similar guns because they do not require as much training as a 1911, IMO. They were a large reason for the change from DA revolvers to DAO semi autos. I wish that training would return to marksmanship for officers instead of just throwing lead everywhere.

Here is the ammunition I used in the "jamfest" magazine. Keep in mind that I've fired 85 rounds of it without any issues through the stock magazines.

 

[WalkingWolf]

Here is the ammunition I used in the "jamfest" magazine. Keep in mind that I've fired 85 rounds of it without any issues through the stock magazines.

View attachment 10556

Wellll I have heard that some have had problems with the blazer ammo. It could be that after 85 rounds the dirt just built up and started gumming up the gun. I have heard blazer is very dirty ammo. One way to tell is find the specs for Glock magazines and measure yours to see if they are within specs. If they are within specs, again I doubt it is your mag, unless it is dirty, take it apart and clean it.

Take the spring out and see if the follower feels gritty going up and down, if it does polish it. Or just polish it anyway.

 

[q445187]

Reloads?

I've put several hundred rounds through it with no issues. After using the 15-round magazine, I put another forty or so through it with no issues on the stock 9-round magazines. All three jams occurred within the 15 rounds I put through it on the 15-round magazine. I used the same ammunition type in the stock and 15-round magazines.

And, no, I've never replaced the recoil spring.

Are you using reloads? I have had the same issue with reloads that weren't strong enough. I have found that I have to make the rounds a little hotter, I assume because of the double recoil spring as my loads fir fine in a glock 23, 22 etc, but about every 5 hang in the 27.

 

[Primus]

Follower

It's the follower in the magazine. When you load the 15 rds you'll see that it's a double stack, but your 9 rounds is a single stack. When you load rds into the double, you'll see that the rds alternate on their way down the pipe. If the follower gets stuck, it can cause a gap and gets jammed up. The single stack goes straight down so you don't have that problem.

I would't throw the mag out, unload it and reload it a few times. Also after you get done loading it/as your loading it, keep checking the window in the back of the magazine to make sure there are rds lined up with the holes. If that doesn't work, send it to me.

 

[WalkingWolf]

It's the follower in the magazine. When you load the 15 rds you'll see that it's a double stack, but your 9 rounds is a single stack. When you load rds into the double, you'll see that the rds alternate on their way down the pipe. If the follower gets stuck, it can cause a gap and gets jammed up. The single stack goes straight down so you don't have that problem.

I would't throw the mag out, unload it and reload it a few times. Also after you get done loading it/as your loading it, keep checking the window in the back of the magazine to make sure there are rds lined up with the holes. If that doesn't work, send it to me.

OR buy a 1911~~couldn't resist.

 

[Primus]

OR buy a 1911~~couldn't resist.

That will be my next purchase. Stilla Glock guy, but I would like to buy/build a 1911 and run it in Single Stack USPSA

 

[tgiv]

What else?

The OP must be limp wristing.:lol: We know only SNS jam. :banana:

Honestly it is probably the ammo or a nick in the feed ramp. Try different ammo, polish the feed ramp, THEN look to the magazines. If all else fails use the Glock warranty. If they are like Hi Point(SNS) they will fix or replace free of charge and give you new magazines to comp for the shipping.

OR just buy a 3 Hi Points for the cost of one Glock.

Refreshing to read the help from WalkingWolf.
My G27 was new in Aug2010 and although nothing has changed - except how to clean it better - it began troubles with feeding. I repeat nothing changed including ammo, magazines, no wrist injuries, no ramp nicks.
1. changed the mag springs, even bought new mags, the only suspect was the 9 round Glock mag ... worked on new stronger grip techniques, seemed to work but not really when the flawless 22 round mag also failed today
2. began to polish feed ramp, thanks to your wisdom and U-tube examples, only had Brasso until good stuff arrives, used drill w/bit on soft fiber wheel, looks great, will report on results next range visit BUT......
3. what in the world are these nicks in the slide grooves, up near front of ejection port? Damage from old mags going bad? Brasso & fiber wheel smoothed some but nothing like a wood/metal shop teacher would admire ... or pass. Nicks were more silver than slide/et al. mmmmm Will report on that ... something NO ONE on ANY forum has mentioned ... (they all want to joke about limp wristing)
4. I must admit that although recently cleaned and not ready for another, the slide grooves were filthy!?!?!?

Hope these observations help our OP and others, who will chime in with revelations that will return our trust to our ever lovin Sub-Comp Glocks