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Madison gun scare has officers emptying car occupants at gunpoint
- Thread starter blaze
- Start date
epilogue
Regular Member
Epic.
IcrewUH60
Regular Member
so looking at a BB gun in a car is "unlawful use of a facsimile firearm" but that wasnt RAS/PC to make the stop?
Yet another "no confidence" vote for MPD.
Yet another "no confidence" vote for MPD.
paul@paul-fisher.com
Regular Member
I guess why wouldn't the have RAS? It seems like a good stop to me. 167.31 only allows unloaded, encased firearm in a vehicle. Since it looks like a firearm and isn't in a case, reason to do a stop.
IcrewUH60
Regular Member
correct - that was my point. I thought they stopped the vehicle for running the red light after receiveing the alert. But, I re-read the article and it appears that one officer was already stopping the vehicle for running the red light when the alert was put out over the air. The officer realized the alert was for the vegichle he/she just stopped and then called for backup.
Nutczak
Regular Member
"unlawful use of a facsimile firearm" Wait, wht??
Ok, not for nothing here, but it was my understanding that the particular law they got cited for breaking was meant to get people for using a 'Facsimile Firearm" during the commission of another crime.
For instance;
If someone were to rob a kwik-trip, and they told the clerk 'I have a gun in my pocket" and they are holding a banana instead of a gun (So if they get caught, they cannot get tagged with "Armed Robbery" by having an actual gun.
How were these kids "Using" the BB-Gun that is now being called a facsimile?
The actions of the Madison police is one of the main reasons I avoid college towns. They are usually liberal strongholds where they expect government to supply their every need, and the entitlement issues of those people makes me want to puke, But if I did puke, I would probably get charged with aggravated battery in that town!!
Ok, not for nothing here, but it was my understanding that the particular law they got cited for breaking was meant to get people for using a 'Facsimile Firearm" during the commission of another crime.
For instance;
If someone were to rob a kwik-trip, and they told the clerk 'I have a gun in my pocket" and they are holding a banana instead of a gun (So if they get caught, they cannot get tagged with "Armed Robbery" by having an actual gun.
How were these kids "Using" the BB-Gun that is now being called a facsimile?
The actions of the Madison police is one of the main reasons I avoid college towns. They are usually liberal strongholds where they expect government to supply their every need, and the entitlement issues of those people makes me want to puke, But if I did puke, I would probably get charged with aggravated battery in that town!!
smithman
Regular Member
The three backseat passengers, one 17-year-old and two 18-year-olds, were cited for unlawful use of a facsimile firearm.
Wow. There is no end to the prohibited activities that don't have any victim. Can anybody explain why we need more laws?
Wow. There is no end to the prohibited activities that don't have any victim. Can anybody explain why we need more laws?
phred
Regular Member
Firearms need to be unloaded and encased while in a vehicle. A firearm is defined as using gunpowder to propel the projectile. A BB gun is not a facsimile, unless it would be used to impersonate a gun when committing a crime. Was a crime committed?
Brendon .45
Regular Member
+1
I read this earlier today. The stop for the red light appears to be good, but everything after that is a bit iffy. According to what's been reported here, based on the 'totatllity of the circumstances', I'm leaning towards siding with the po-po on this one. As responsible gun owners, we would never be driving around while showing off our sidearms to our passengers, and running red lights while doing it. But the tickets for the facsimile firearm are pushing it a bit.
Krusty
Regular Member
If the cops issue enough citations, maybe they can get one to stick! Years ago the cops would have told them to put the BB gun in the trunk and that would have been it...
Obviously this law didn't reduce any crime.
Obviously this law didn't reduce any crime.
Sure it seems like a good stop but what ever happened to "Hey kids you can't have that in view in the car, you're likely to spook some people, put it in the trunk until you get home." ?
Rediculous.
Shotgun
Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
I find it rather interesting that a BB gun is specifically identified as not meeting the definition of an "imitation firearm" under Wisconsin statutes, but apparently it can be regarded to be a "facsimile firearm"-- at least in the eyes of MPD.
Shotgun
Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
A good stop? What grounds did they have for holding the occupants at gun point? What possible violations of the law did the police have reason to suspect? 1) Running a red light. (Which I dare say hardly merits being held a gunpoint. or 2) A possible violation of improper transport of a weapon-- a civil forfeiture with a maximum of a 100 dollar fine, and not an arrestable offense.
The devil's advocate might suggest a third suspicion: carrying a concealed weapon. However nobody reported observing a weapon being concealed, they reported a visible "weapon."
Whoa.. . I said it "seems" like a good stop. I could make a good argument for the "gunpoint" scenario, depending on what the 911 call said but I don't think you'd listen.
My point was that many cops are no longer trained or inclined to protect and serve but rather to abuse authority and arrest.
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M
McX
Guest
probably them there totality of circumstances again.
Egad!
A legitimate traffic stop + a credible report of weapons in the car. I won't comment on the validity of the charges but criticism of the MPD for the conduct of the stop is unwarranted and stupid. If you kneejerk complain about any action of the police just because a (perceived) firearm is involved, nobody is going to take you seriously. There are enough instances of truly bad LEO conduct. Don't water those down by whining every time you feel motivated. If think the incident was wrongly handled please provide the stepwise scenario that you would have followed. Sometimes I think that some prominent posters must be WAVE moles. It is loyal and supportive of the "cause" to correct, chide or call out posters when the situation warrants. Groupthink and the party line are the stuff of anti-RKBA types, not us.
A legitimate traffic stop + a credible report of weapons in the car. I won't comment on the validity of the charges but criticism of the MPD for the conduct of the stop is unwarranted and stupid. If you kneejerk complain about any action of the police just because a (perceived) firearm is involved, nobody is going to take you seriously. There are enough instances of truly bad LEO conduct. Don't water those down by whining every time you feel motivated. If think the incident was wrongly handled please provide the stepwise scenario that you would have followed. Sometimes I think that some prominent posters must be WAVE moles. It is loyal and supportive of the "cause" to correct, chide or call out posters when the situation warrants. Groupthink and the party line are the stuff of anti-RKBA types, not us.
GLOCK21GB
Campaign Veteran
Complete Moron drives past guy talking on cell phone, tells cops some guy has a gun to his head, to you this is a credible report of a man with a gun ?? HOW does a phone look like a gun ? Why was the report of the man with a gun Credible ? Should the guy making the report been given a Breathalizer or tested for drugs ? it was a Phone. Why would the police ruin mans day on the word of a BLIND Moron ? How is ripping the cops for arresting him for talking on a phone NOT bad LEO conduct ? Why are you busting our butts for calling it the way we see it ? Now go back to the Blue Kool Aid you have been drinking.
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Peacekeeper
Regular Member
The madison PD and UW PD did the right thing on this one. THANK YOU for keeping us and yourselves safer!
Lets save the "armchair quarterbacking" for the superbowl!!
Lets save the "armchair quarterbacking" for the superbowl!!
epilogue
Regular Member
What.