• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Hr 218 aka leosa?

Jared

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2006
Messages
901
Location
Michigan, USA
NO! He doesn't. GFZ applies to private schools too!



When not acting in official capacity, he needs to comply with MN Permit law.

Yes the FGFZA applies to private schools; however, the MN permit satisfies the exception.

That does not satisfy the state ban in schools. Even the FGFSZA says that satisfying the federal ban does not mean a state ban is trumped.

So all what is left to satisfy is the state school ban. Which MN has, as you know as the VP of a gun rights group in MN., has a state ban with some exceptions.

So to satisfy the state ban in a private school, the OP may use LEOSA.

I think you hare having trouble understand how the FGFSZA and MN state version co-exist in tandem.

State permit = satisfies the federal law.

LEOSA = exemption from MN state ban if the school is private.... But not for public schools.

Not to be rude, but as a VP of a state gun group, you should have a better understanding about how two separate laws work in tandem.

This isn't hard to understand, but instead of understanding the WHOLE picture, you are only looking at one aspect and berating someone over it who clearly has a superior understanding of the issue.

Since MN is difficult for you to understand, let's use an easier example.

Connecticut has had a ban on guns in schools since 1998. I can carry in a private school in CT because I have a CT permit (meets FGSZA requirements) and my LEOSA ID trumps the CT school ban for private schools.

So LEOSA + CT permit to carry pistols and revolvers = I can carry in private schools in CT.

A CT permit holder can not carry in a CT school.

A LEOSA person can not carry in a CT school or within a 1000 feet because of FGFSZA.

I can not carry in a public school in CT because even though my CT license complies with FGFSZA, it doesn't comply with the state ban and my LEOSA ID does not trump the state ban like it would for a private school.
 
Last edited:

robdoar

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2010
Messages
152
Location
Minneapolis
Not to be rude, but as a VP of a state gun group, you should have a better understanding about how two separate laws work in tandem.
Not to be rude, as a cop from out of state, you should refrain from giving "advise" that could land someone a felony charge. Your perceived "superior understanding" is not passing muster.

I think you hare having trouble understand how the FGFSZA and MN state version co-exist in tandem.
And I think you're having trouble understanding how exemptions work. LEOSA does not meet either the "official duty" exemption or the B2 exemption. He has to carry under the terms of MN permit. LEOSA mentions nothing about schools, and does not override 18 USC 922(q).

But I'm tired of going in circles. Just trying to help him avoid a felony charge from bad advice. Consult an attorney if you want a proper education. There's a MN law professor chuckling at this thread at this very moment. Cheers.
 
Last edited:

Jared

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2006
Messages
901
Location
Michigan, USA
And I think you're having trouble understanding how exemptions work. LEOSA does not meet either the "official duty" exemption or the B2 exemption. He has to carry under the terms of MN permit. LEOSA mentions nothing about schools, and does not override 18 USC 922(q).

But I'm tired of going in circles. Just trying to help him avoid a felony charge. Consult an attorney if you want a proper education. There's a MN law professor chuckling at this thread at this very moment. Cheers.
Then your attorney isn't worth his bar license.

The FGFSZA requires a license to posses a firearm, it could be any type of gun license offered by the state, it doesn't have to be a carry license. Show me where the FGFSZA says It has to be a carry license and I'll be happy to admit I'm wrong.... Show me.

Show me where the FGFSZA says you need a "carry" license and you need to "carry under the terms of a MN (state) permit"?

Illinois cops have been carrying into schools since the FGFSZA was enacted and they have relied on a FOID possession card to be in compliance with the FGFSZA, not a "carry" license.

The FGFSZA does not require that you have a carry license AND you carry under the license. Your status as a person "licensed" to "possess" a firearm gives you complete exemption from the FGFSZA, no if's or buts.



That is not hard to understand. For example, an Illinois FOID card meets the exception for IL, a New Jersey FID card meets the requirement, it doesn't have to be a concealed carry license. In New York, a New York City permit to possess a rifle and shotgun meets the FGFSZA exemption. In Michigan, a license to purchase/possess qualifies. In Hawaii, a registration certificate qualifies.


Again, show me where you need a "carry" license to be exempt from the FGFSZA? Any license to "possess" works.

So your so called law professor is a hack who should do a little more reading and a little less chuckling.

Ask the adjunct "professor" under what law can a MN permit holder with a LEOSA ID be charged with for carrying in a private school? Show me??????
 
Last edited:

Jared

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2006
Messages
901
Location
Michigan, USA
I am a fairly new deputy in North Dakota. I will be visiting my nephew in a north eastern county, specifically Becker County. Now with this new law HR 218, I am having trouble on where I can an cannot carry while off-duty. We all know the saying is that we are "never off-duty" lol. But, I digress. So to make this simple, I am going to be picking up and signing out my nephew from his HS for lunch on an upcoming visit. Under MN law a licenesed peace officer can carry off duty in a school, but the definition in the Statute only defines a "Peace Officer" under 626.84 as basically any state agency that has the power to act as a Law Enfrcement officer. Also under fed law I am not to carry, even as an off duty LEO with in a 1,000 ft of a school if I do not have that states CC permit. So as a LEO from another state and totally different jurisdiction outside of the state of MN, can I carry into the school under HR 218 aka LEOSA or not. I did email the Sheriff and the Chief of Police of the county and city respectfully to ask them. But as I wait for a response I wanted to hear what other officers from MN had to say cuz I know a few of them are on here.

Thanks
Not sure if you heard back from the local chief or sheriff but you need a MN permit to be exempt from the Federal gun free school zone ban.

After complying with the federal law, you can then carry under LEOSA on a private school in MN unless they prohibit guns either by signage or by verbally communicating such to you.

If your nephew is at a public school then you can not carry in the school because while the MN permit exempts you from the federal ban as the MN permit "licenses" you to "possess" a firearm per 18 USC 922, LEOSA does not exempt you from the state ban because a public school is a government "building" as defined in LEOSA.

Short version...

MN permit = exemption from entire federal gun free school zone possession ban.

LEOSA = exempts you from MN's school ban if the school is private.

You need to comply with both provisions.
I hope this helps.
 
Last edited:

Jared

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2006
Messages
901
Location
Michigan, USA
Not to be rude, as a cop from out of state, you should refrain from giving "advise" that could land someone a felony charge. Your perceived "superior understanding" is not passing muster.



And I think you're having trouble understanding how exemptions work. LEOSA does not meet either the "official duty" exemption or the B2 exemption. He has to carry under the terms of MN permit. LEOSA mentions nothing about schools, and does not override 18 USC 922(q).

But I'm tired of going in circles. Just trying to help him avoid a felony charge from bad advice. Consult an attorney if you want a proper education. There's a MN law professor chuckling at this thread at this very moment. Cheers.
So where does B2 in FGFSZA use the word "carry"?

It's just frustrating that a VP of a so called gun group in MN doesn't understand this.

I don't need to be a cop in MN to understand this... I'm not a state cop, but I do have (unlike state cops) the ability to enforce the FGFSZA... And I fully understand it and how it doesn't use the word "carry" in B2.

Don't pout over "shots" being taken, I believe you were the first one to engage in ad hominem because even though you are a MN instructor, you are not educated on the FGFSZA and don't even realize that the word "carry" isn't mentioned as an exemption. So if you can't grasp that, then you won't grasp the rest of it. B2 is an absolute exemption to the possession aspect of the GFSZA, not a conditional exemption provided that you abide by the confines of the state "possession" license, as you suggest.
 
Top