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Hamburg Wal-Mart. OC'er tresspassed from ALL Wal-Marts.

Ghost1958

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Messages
986
Location
Kentucky
There is nothing prohibiting private businesses from banning open carry either. Again you have no right to carry a firearm into a place that you don't own if the owner prohibits such carrying, regardless of the way you choose to carry it. Government entities are prohibited from making such laws and regulations, but not private entities. I don't think you have a firm grasp on how constitutional rights, property rights, statute construction, and so on work. There doesn't have to be a law endowing a property owner with the ability to prohibit open carry, the lack of a law prohibiting such gives him that right. As said before there are laws prohibiting a public accommodation from refusing admittance or serving a protected class, but there is not law requiring someone to allow admittance or being required to serve someone carrying a gun.

Ok
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,912
Location
North Carolina
A business owner/private property can ban people, not carrying firearms. While it may seem like banning firearms, it is not, firearms are inanimate objects and have no ability to obey a ban, they go where they are carried. People are banned because they carry, it is more a political statement than safety. Most business knows that firearms carried by criminals can't read the gun buster sign. So the person(gun owner) still carries, just carries at a different business. Target had to learn this the hard way, same for Dick's.
 

gutshot II

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2017
Messages
619
Location
Central Ky.
If every open carrier in the country stopped spending every penny they have at Walmart, the company would not even notice it. We don't have enough people to make a difference with a national chain. We might be able to have some influence with a local "mom and pop".
 

gutshot II

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2017
Messages
619
Location
Central Ky.
There is nothing prohibiting private businesses from banning open carry either. Again you have no right to carry a firearm into a place that you don't own if the owner prohibits such carrying, regardless of the way you choose to carry it. Government entities are prohibited from making such laws and regulations, but not private entities. I don't think you have a firm grasp on how constitutional rights, property rights, statute construction, and so on work. There doesn't have to be a law endowing a property owner with the ability to prohibit open carry, the lack of a law prohibiting such gives him that right. As said before there are laws prohibiting a public accommodation from refusing admittance or serving a protected class, but there is not law requiring someone to allow admittance or being required to serve someone carrying a gun.
+1000
 

gutshot II

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2017
Messages
619
Location
Central Ky.
This idea that the state has no authority to ban open carry is abserd. Over and over, I have challenged anyone that believes that foolishness to open carry onto a school. So far, no takers, but they keep saying it. Saying it is easy, doing is much different. Put up or shut up, comes to mind. Ky. has statutes that prohibit OC in schools and in bars. Both have been on the books for decades. How is it that the state CAN'T ban OC but DOES ban OC? The whole idea is laughable.
 

Ghost1958

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Messages
986
Location
Kentucky
Yeah. There is. The RTKABA Which prexisted this nation and,constitution.

That aside. There is a reason there is no gun related charge for carrying into a business that doesnt want it.

In Ky, there is the absolute right to be armed with only concealed carry being constitutionally regulated .

A business owner cannot disarm, not demand a carrier in his vaunted property disarm.
The BEST he can do is a minor trespass, and that could be done over anything. EXCEPT the OC of a firearm.

Wal-Mart was,dumb enough to put it in writing and if the carrier has the pockets to get it to the KY supreme court he WILL win.

An open to the public anything is NOT private anyway.

Want you business private, put up a no tresspassing sign.
 
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Ghost1958

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Messages
986
Location
Kentucky
This idea that the state has no authority to ban open carry is abserd. Over and over, I have challenged anyone that believes that foolishness to open carry onto a school. So far, no takers, but they keep saying it. Saying it is easy, doing is much different. Put up or shut up, comes to mind. Ky. has statutes that prohibit OC in schools and in bars. Both have been on the books for decades. How is it that the state CAN'T ban OC but DOES ban OC? The whole idea is laughable.
[/QUOTE

Ky state constitution. As,you well know.

All that can be done over OC in a bar is a threatenes temporary confiscation of the firearm. Doubt you ever heard of it actually being done. And OC is done in bars quite often with zip being done about it.

There is no criminal charge other than federal , for carrying in a "prohibited" place,here.

The school malarkey is the state piggy backing on Fed law.

There is,no point in beating the state law,when they will just use,fed,law.
 

Ghost1958

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Messages
986
Location
Kentucky
This idea that the state has no authority to ban open carry is abserd. Over and over, I have challenged anyone that believes that foolishness to open carry onto a school. So far, no takers, but they keep saying it. Saying it is easy, doing is much different. Put up or shut up, comes to mind. Ky. has statutes that prohibit OC in schools and in bars. Both have been on the books for decades. How is it that the state CAN'T ban OC but DOES ban OC? The whole idea is laughable.
This was pointed out to you quite a while back when you were just gutshot supporting the NRA Bill for permitless carry in trade for FOL signage until it was evident it wasn't going to fly.
And you said it didn't say what it says then alsi

It's no 7 in ky bill of rights. Hasnt changed.
Only convers the authority to permit or deny concealed carry.

Nothing about OC.
No authority to create permit schemes.

Try finding authority to ban OC.

Seventh: The right to bear arms in defense of themselves and of the State, subject to the power of the General Assembly to enact laws to prevent persons from carrying concealed weapons.[1

See
 

garyh9900

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2011
Messages
153
Location
KY
Yeah. There is. The RTKABA Which prexisted this nation and,constitution.

That aside. There is a reason there is no gun related charge for carrying into a business that doesnt want it.

In Ky, there is the absolute right to be armed with only concealed carry being constitutionally regulated .

A business owner cannot disarm, not demand a carrier in his vaunted property disarm.
The BEST he can do is a minor trespass, and that could be done over anything. EXCEPT the OC of a firearm.

Wal-Mart was,dumb enough to put it in writing and if the carrier has the pockets to get it to the KY supreme court he WILL win.

An open to the public anything is NOT private anyway.

Want you business private, put up a no tresspassing sign.
Again, a private business can ban open carry if it chooses. You have cited no law that says otherwise. Feel free to try your theory out, you’ll lose every single case. You’re theory has no basis of support in the law.
 

Ghost1958

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Messages
986
Location
Kentucky
Once again, if you believe that, OC into a school. I await your report.
Find any mention of OC, permit scheme creation? No? Just admit it instead of dodging it.

As I pointed out it would be pointless to get the ky version tossed out though it would be easy enough. They would just use the Fed charge.

Besides it's not impossible to carry in a school in ky. See it done occasionally.
 

Ghost1958

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Messages
986
Location
Kentucky
Again, a private business can ban open carry if it chooses. You have cited no law that says otherwise. Feel free to try your theory out, you’ll lose every single case. You’re theory has no basis of support in the law.
There IS no case law on OC in ky . Reason being the cops bogus charges are 99.9 percent thrown out before getting to trial.

And no a business cannot ban OC in ky.
All they can do OC is use a trespass law that has NOTHING to do with the gun.
 

garyh9900

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2011
Messages
153
Location
KY
There IS no case law on OC in ky . Reason being the cops bogus charges are 99.9 percent thrown out before getting to trial.

And no a business cannot ban OC in ky.
All they can do OC is use a trespass law that has NOTHING to do with the gun.
Again, you have cited nothing that says private businesses cannot ban open carry. You have cited no law that says you can open carry wherever you chose against the private property owners wishes. Our constitution restrains the government, not businesses from private citizens. For example we have the freedom of speech, press, assembly, and religion. Do you think that gives you the right to walk into CNN and put yourself on the air. Do you think that you can just waltz into a church and decide today is your day to start preaching without the church’s consent. Do you think that you can demand your editorial be printed in your local newspaper? There are no laws saying you can’t do those things. So does that mean you can?
 

Ghost1958

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Messages
986
Location
Kentucky
Again, you have cited nothing that says private businesses cannot ban open carry. You have cited no law that says you can open carry wherever you chose against the private property owners wishes. Our constitution restrains the government, not businesses from private citizens. For example we have the freedom of speech, press, assembly, and religion. Do you think that gives you the right to walk into CNN and put yourself on the air. Do you think that you can just waltz into a church and decide today is your day to start preaching without the church’s consent. Do you think that you can demand your editorial be printed in your local newspaper? There are no laws saying you can’t do those things. So does that mean you can?
 

Ghost1958

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Messages
986
Location
Kentucky
I cited the need for a statute to be written in this state to even allow business to ban cc.

I don't need to cite a law , but I did. No 7 , ky constitution.

Business can ban cc. Business can ban a person. Business cannot specfically ban OC.
 

garyh9900

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2011
Messages
153
Location
KY
I cited the need for a statute to be written in this state to even allow business to ban cc.

I don't need to cite a law , but I did. No 7 , ky constitution.

Business can ban cc. Business can ban a person. Business cannot specfically ban OC.
Man you are having a difficult time seeing the picture. There is no law prohibiting businesses from doing so. 1.7 of the KY Constitution restrains the government, not private businesses, in regards to the right to bear arms. It does not give you the right to ignore the decisions of owners of private property, and you’ve cited no law or case law to the contrary.

So my example regarding free speech, is covered by 1.4 of the Kentucky Constitution, does that give you the right to waltz into WKYT and put yourself on the air?
 

gutshot II

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2017
Messages
619
Location
Central Ky.
Here is a little history lesson for those of us here that are still struggling with our GED tests.

When Ky. first became a state, we needed laws and we needed a state constitution. Most of the population of KY, especially the educated ones, were originally from Pennsylvania. The people picked to write the first Ky. state constitution decided to copy large portions of the new constitution and many of the laws from those of Pennsylvania. That was particularly true when it came to the "Bill of Rights". The Pennsylvania "Bill of Rights" stated that:

§ 21. Right to bear arms.
The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned.


The people picked to write the KY Constitution thought that sounded pretty good, so they used that, word for word. In 1850, the constitution was changed to delete "shall not be questioned", and add "subject to the power of the General Assembly to enact laws to prevent persons from carrying concealed weapons." So that,"shall not be questioned" part has been gone for over 150 years.

Some people seem to think that wording is still there. Those people must have been educated 150 years ago.


The Pennsylvanian Constitution has the original wording to this day. Which state do you think has the best gun laws? The original wording of their constitution did not prevent the regulation of CC in Pennsylvania, even though their constitution doesn't cede that power to the legislature. Their CC law is more restrictive than ours. Their regulation of OC is more restrictive than ours. Retaining those words in their constitution didn't do the gun owners of Pennsylvania a bit of good and the wording of our constitution will not stop you from going to jail if you OC into a school. Those words do make for a long tedious and boring conversation on the internet by people that like to bloviate but have no solutions to anything. If I tell you I can run a mile in 2 minutes, you would probably say that I can't. Once I do it and do it for year after year, you will sound pretty stupid saying I can't.

I am still waiting on volunteers to OC into a school. Anyone interested? No? Anything else is just childish chatter.
 

garyh9900

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2011
Messages
153
Location
KY
Here is a little history lesson for those of us here that are still struggling with our GED tests.

When Ky. first became a state, we needed laws and we needed a state constitution. Most of the population of KY, especially the educated ones, were originally from Pennsylvania. The people picked to write the first Ky. state constitution decided to copy large portions of the new constitution and many of the laws from those of Pennsylvania. That was particularly true when it came to the "Bill of Rights". The Pennsylvania "Bill of Rights" stated that:

§ 21. Right to bear arms.
The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned.


The people picked to write the KY Constitution thought that sounded pretty good, so they used that, word for word. In 1850, the constitution was changed to delete "shall not be questioned", and add "subject to the power of the General Assembly to enact laws to prevent persons from carrying concealed weapons." So that,"shall not be questioned" part has been gone for over 150 years.

Some people seem to think that wording is still there. Those people must have been educated 150 years ago.


The Pennsylvanian Constitution has the original wording to this day. Which state do you think has the best gun laws? The original wording of their constitution did not prevent the regulation of CC in Pennsylvania, even though their constitution doesn't cede that power to the legislature. Their CC law is more restrictive than ours. Their regulation of OC is more restrictive than ours. Retaining those words in their constitution didn't do the gun owners of Pennsylvania a bit of good and the wording of our constitution will not stop you from going to jail if you OC into a school. Those words do make for a long tedious and boring conversation on the internet by people that like to bloviate but have no solutions to anything. If I tell you I can run a mile in 2 minutes, you would probably say that I can't. Once I do it and do it for year after year, you will sound pretty stupid saying I can't.

I am still waiting on volunteers to OC into a school. Anyone interested? No? Anything else is just childish chatter.
Surely someone could just print it out, and walk into the school and they be okay. Right?
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
4,887
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Once again, if you believe that, OC into a school. I await your report.
Apples and oranges. Schools are NOT open to the public. Private businesses having rights to regulate their business is NOT absolute. A business exists at the pleasure of the state. And as I pointed out above the KY Supreme Court overturned a trespass conviction during an armed robbery. He left when shot at. But he was convicted of robbery.

A business cannot just ask a customer to leave if he is in the process of a transaction. It is not that simple.

When a business opens their doors to do business with the public they forfeit some of their autonomy. I speak from experience.

The problem is most cops are not taught trespass law. They end up violating your rights because they are ignorant.
 
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