Florida Carry legal victory makes way for constitutional challenge to Open Carry Ban

[transam86]

im so outta this rediclious siute

what happened to free speach????????? might as well be a damn romper room forum PATHETIC in out

 

[MKEgal]

im (sic) so outta this rediclious (sic) siute (sic)
what happened to free speach (sic) ?????????
might as well be a damn romper room forum PATHETIC in (sic) out

First off, you're on a privately-owned site. You do not have freedom of speech, you have the priviledges Mike & John allow, and while they're pretty generous & reasonable, there are limits. By signing up, you agreed to those limits.

Second, being as immature & hotheaded as you are showing, I'm having trouble believing that the birthday you gave when you signed up is accurate. Also, given those traits, perhaps being armed is not the best/safest idea for you (or more importantly, the people around you).

Third, his statement about the legibility of your post was spot-on. That's probably why you're so mad. Try improving instead of attacking. With so many problems, you're less likely to be able to communicate, and isn't that the whole point of posting something?

 

[marshaul]

what happened to free speach????????? might as well be a damn romper room forum PATHETIC in out

"Hey, relax guy!"

[video=youtube;jnpKUOAgWAU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnpKUOAgWAU[/video]

Nobody is trying to make you feel bad, my friend. There is a bit of the "if you can't handle the heat..." mentality, but that's internet fora in a nutshell.

Look at it this way: we're a community, so we tend to prod each other to better ourselves so that the community is bettered as a whole. Moreover, most folks (especially on this forum) have, through "debates" with vitriolic, uncouth, ungrammatical and generally irrational anti-gunners, realized that the "gun rights community" as a whole benefits from our being more well-spoken, well-reasoned, and cool-headed than our opposition. That so many of us could teach the average anti-gunner a thing or two about literacy really helps destroy the stereotypes of gun owners being ignorant, illiterate rednecks.

It's never pleasant being called out in public for one's weak points (however slight), but it's better coming from a friendly place rather than one of hostility.

Ultimately, a forum is a medium for communication. By posting here, you essentially demonstrate your desire to communicate. Unfortunately, however, the more difficult your post is to read, the fewer folks will stay with you until the end, and the less successful your effort to communicate will have been. So, if your posts are easy to parse, it benefits nobody more than yourself.

Writing is a skill – one which most folks who write well will tell you is best practiced by reading. There's nothing better to read about than subjects which interest you, of course, and since there are many well-written folks around here, you'd do better to read more here, rather than stomping your foot and leaving.

Finally, there is the matter of respect; it's difficult to parse walls of text, and poor spelling and grammar only contribute to the difficulty. So, when you write sloppily, you're basically asking a bunch of people you don't really know to do work you weren't willing to do yourself. Not only is it inefficient to have every reader independently perform a task the writer could perform once, it's disrespectful to foist work you should have done onto the other participants in a conversation. If you disrespect folks, they are less likely to read your posts and more likely to disrespect you.

 

[BB62]

"Hey, relax guy!"

[video=youtube;jnpKUOAgWAU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnpKUOAgWAU[/video]

Nobody is trying to make you feel bad, my friend. There is a bit of the "if you can't handle the heat..." mentality, but that's internet fora in a nutshell.

Look at it this way: we're a community, so we tend to prod each other to better ourselves so that the community is bettered as a whole. Moreover, most folks (especially on this forum) have, through "debates" with vitriolic, uncouth, ungrammatical and generally irrational anti-gunners, realized that the "gun rights community" as a whole benefits from our being more well-spoken, well-reasoned, and cool-headed than our opposition. That so many of us could teach the average anti-gunner a thing or two about literacy really helps destroy the stereotypes of gun owners being ignorant, illiterate rednecks.

It's never pleasant being called out in public for one's weak points (however slight), but it's better coming from a friendly place rather than one of hostility.

Ultimately, a forum is a medium for communication. My posting here, you essentially demonstrate your desire to communicate. Unfortunately, however, the more difficult your post is to read, the fewer folks will stay with you until the end, and the less successful your effort to communicate will have been. So, if your posts are easy to parse, it benefits nobody more than yourself.

Writing is a skill – one which most folks who write well will tell you is best practiced by reading. There's nothing better to read about than subjects which interest you, of course, and since there are many well-written folks around here, you'd do better to read more here, rather than stomping your foot and leaving.

Finally, there is the matter of respect; it's difficult to parse walls of text, and poor spelling and grammar only contribute to the difficulty. So, when you write sloppily, you're basically asking a bunch of people you don't really know to do work you weren't willing to do yourself. Not only is it inefficient to have every reader independently perform a task the writer could perform once, it's disrespectful to foist work you should have done onto the other participants in a conversation. If you disrespect folks, they are less likely to read your posts and more likely to disrespect you.

VERY well said.

 

[sniper1]

Any idea when we can expect any movement on this?

 

[StogieC]

The Judges may not even know yet.

 

[77zach]

If they choose to recognize the right to carry then they have 2 months in order to give the legislature the entire session. I wonder if the negative attention of a special seesion would make it more likely to see a CWFL requirement (if the court left them any wiggle room whatsoever) retention training, signage, many prohibited places, etc. Basically more likely to see the "right" totally gutted.

There is also precedent for the legislative branch just totally ignoring what the rubber stamping judicial branch does. The federal "gun free" school zone act was declared unconstitutional and Congress went ahead and passed it again and it can be enforced.

 

[ixtow]

Ixtow vowed to eat a very high fiber meal for gold, not green! lol

I'd be willing to make some kind of compromise even though I don't have to. ;-) Aw, damn, I sound like the NRA...

 

[77zach]

I also expect to see little to no support from the NRA on this. (I hope to be pleasantly surprised here, though)

Well, they're going with the no support or active opposition card in Texas. Not good. From their daily email alerts:

https://www.nraila.org/articles/201...ferrals-public-hearings-may-not-be-far-behind

Open carry is the most talked about gun legislation in Texas this session and they don't even mention it.

 

[StogieC]

The 4th DCA ruled against the right to carry openly in the Norman case. We're going to the Florida Supreme Court and we need your support to get there.


"While the right to carry outside the home has been established by the
highest court of the land, no decision interpreting the Second Amendment
can be cited for the proposition that a state must allow for one form of
carry over another. Because the Legislature has the right to enact laws
regarding the manner in which arms can be borne, it is likewise permitted
to forbid the carrying of arms in a particular place or manner which, in its
collective judgment, is likely to lead to breaches of the peace, see Carlton
v. State, 58 So. 486, 488-89 (Fla. 1912), provided a reasonable alternative
manner of carry is provided."


https://edca.4dca.org/DCADocs/2012/3525/123525_DC05_02182015_083006_i.pdf

 

[77zach]

TOLJASO.


Sorry guys, you did everything you could. The SC will not rule in your favor either. Truth is no defense. Good luck though. Please focus your efforts on the legislature, we have a pro OC governor, don't take that for granted.

Stogie, the supreme court will give us bad precedent too. I think your appeal to them could possibly hurt gun rights here in Florida. Think about what you're doing, the waste of time and $ aside.

Now there is a circuit split. The 7th says the CC license is a privilege, the 4th says it's a right. Go for licensed general OC in the legislature. If by some miracle the FLSC rules correctly, we'll have unlicensed OC (many years from now). We all know that they'll say the license scheme satisfies the right and that after that the legislature can regulate the manner. This is obvious to me.

 

[ADulay]

I'm just sick over this.

AD

 

[77zach]

I'm just sick over this.

AD

I'm not because I said this would be the result when the case was first filed. Now next time you won't be sick when the Supreme Court does the exact same thing. Fl carry needs to get a lot of members and with the help of Marion Hammer and the NRA get a licensed OC bill through. Remember that senator Evers said he'd try again. We need to get this done while we have the governor's signature. Unlicensed OC is a pipe dream, for another generation perhaps.

 

[2OLD2W8]

Our keepers aren't ready to cede control of this carry issue yet; removing the OC ban will expose the state's narrative regarding man and this specific inanimate tool.
OC=bad ...Concealed Carry=good,

An exposed handgun will necessarily misbehave and wreak havoc!!
The hidden handgun is dutiful and conforming, plus it creates REVENUE !!! :uhoh:

This artfully staged utopian dysfunction makes me...

 

[77zach]

Our keepers aren't ready to cede control of this carry issue yet; removing the OC ban will expose the state's narrative regarding man and this specific inanimate tool.
OC=bad ...Concealed Carry=good,

An exposed handgun will necessarily misbehave and wreak havoc!!
The hidden handgun is dutiful and conforming, plus it creates REVENUE !!! :uhoh:

This artfully staged utopian dysfunction makes me...
View attachment 12386

I lol'd when I saw that puking smiley face, not sure why.

Yep, if you want to OC, better move back to Kentucky! We'll be hiding our guns for many years to come.

 

[California Right To Carry]

Pertua v San Diego & Norman v. State of Florida

Looking for a silver lining, this case creates another split decision (yes, state court decisions can create splits with Federal courts). SCOTUS doesn't take cases to correct errors but it will grant cert petitions to resolve splits.

The three judge panel in Norman was just as nutty as the two judge majority in the case out of the 9th Circuit (Peruta). For slightly different reasons, both held that when SCOTUS said that Open Carry is the right guaranteed by the Constitution and that concealed carry can be banned what SCOTUS was really saying is that Open Carry can be banned.

These two courts have created a split with every other Federal and State court which has had a post-Heller concealed carry case cross its doorstep.

Technically, the Peruta case is still in limbo and has been for a year now. This means the Florida Court in Norman may ultimately be the only case which creates a split and we are still waiting to see what the DC Circuit has to say (post-Heller).

There are 11 numbered Federal Circuits plus the DC Circuit Court of Appeals. Here is where they currently stand on concealed carry:

The First Circuit Court of Appeals could not find a right to carry concealed. Hightower v. City of Boston, 693 F. 3d 61 - Court of Appeals, 1st Circuit (2012) at 73.
Neither could the Second Circuit Court of Appeals. Kachalsky v. County of Westchester, 701 F. 3d 81 - Court of Appeals, 2nd Circuit (2012) at 84.
Nor could the Third Circuit Court of Appeals. Drake v. Filko, 724 F. 3d 426 - Court of Appeals, 3rd Circuit (2013) at 431.
Nor could the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals. Woollard v. Gallagher, 712 F. 3d 865 - Court of Appeals, 4th Circuit (2013) at 868.
Nor could the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals. National Rifle Ass'n of America, Inc. v. McCraw, 719 F. 3d 338 - Court of Appeals, 5th Circuit (2013) at 346.
Nor could the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals. US v. Sanford, 707 F. 3d 594 - Court of Appeals, 6th Circuit (2012) at 597.
Nor could the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals. Moore v. Madigan, 702 F. 3d 933 (2012) at 938.
Nor could the Eighth Circuit Court of Appeals. US v. Fincher, 538 F. 3d 868 - Court of Appeals, 8th Circuit (2008) at 873.
Nor could the Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals. Peterson v. Martinez, 707 F. 3d 1197 - Court of Appeals, 10th Circuit (2013) at 1201.

Nor could the Court of Appeals for the D.C., Circuit. Parker v. District of Columbia, 478 F. 3d 370 - Court of Appeals, Dist. of Columbia Circuit (2007) at 392 aff'd sub nom. District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008). It was this DC Circuit case which became the Heller decision which cited Robertson v. Baldwin, 165 U.S. 275, 17 S.Ct. 326, 41 L.Ed. 715 (1897) which in turn said that there is no right to concealed carry.

Given that Florida is in the Eleventh Circuit one can only wonder why there hasn't been a single so called gun-rights group to challenge Florida's Open Carry ban in a Federal Civil Rights lawsuit? The Heller decision, after all, was decided seven years ago this June, plenty of time to have filed a lawsuit.

Charles Nichols - President of California Right To Carryhttp://CaliforniaRightToCarry.org
http://CaliforniaRightToCarry.org

 

[WalkingWolf]

Because those pro gun, not pro 2A, people with power do not want OC to be ruled as a unlicensed right. That has become blatantly obvious. The Heller decision spelled it out for them, laid out the red carpet, put a welcome mat to the steps of the court. Yet they still do not take the invite.

 

[77zach]

They don't take the invite, I think, because most people are afraid to exercise their rights in public thinking it's shameful.

Regardless the courts will not give any relief. If you look at my posts in this thread, the nutty Norman case said exactly what I said it would. You have a right to exercise a privilege. The right to bear arms is a 2nd class "right" and always will be in kourt.

I assure everyone, again, that any further appeal will fail. Am I the only one to see that we are depending on judges to be pro gun or neutral? They are not, the bias is strongly against us. Look how difficult it was to get a few crumbs in Illinois and D.C. The truth is no defense. I just don't want people to be "sick" 2 years from now when the FL supreme kourt dashes their hopes again when they should have been pressing Marion Hammer ( in notes with their dues to Unified Sportsmen of Florida) and their reps in Tallahassee for licensed OC. After a few years of that hopefully we'll get swept away in the permitless carry current that keeps advancing legislatively.

 

[press1280]

They don't take the invite, I think, because most people are afraid to exercise their rights in public thinking it's shameful.

Regardless the courts will not give any relief. If you look at my posts in this thread, the nutty Norman case said exactly what I said it would. You have a right to exercise a privilege. The right to bear arms is a 2nd class "right" and always will be in kourt.

I assure everyone, again, that any further appeal will fail. Am I the only one to see that we are depending on judges to be pro gun or neutral? They are not, the bias is strongly against us. Look how difficult it was to get a few crumbs in Illinois and D.C. The truth is no defense. I just don't want people to be "sick" 2 years from now when the FL supreme kourt dashes their hopes again when they should have been pressing Marion Hammer ( in notes with their dues to Unified Sportsmen of Florida) and their reps in Tallahassee for licensed OC. After a few years of that hopefully we'll get swept away in the permitless carry current that keeps advancing legislatively.

This case is helping on the national stage even if it isn't helping Florida, and I hope it is appealed all the way. The fact that they call in to question the Kachalsky, Drake and Woollard cases is enough to move the ball forward and create chaos in the courts. That'll help get SCOTUS' attention.

 

[77zach]

This case is helping on the national stage even if it isn't helping Florida, and I hope it is appealed all the way. The fact that they call in to question the Kachalsky, Drake and Woollard cases is enough to move the ball forward and create chaos in the courts. That'll help get SCOTUS' attention.

Fair enough. If it only costs a couple grand and Mr Friday is willing to volunteer his time I'm all for exposing the government's kourt system for what it is.