Florida Carry legal victory makes way for constitutional challenge to Open Carry Ban

[sniper1]

Do we have any kind of time frame for a verdict?

 

[notalawyer]

I wonder why Mr. Friday was only allowed approximately 3 minutes for rebuttal in lieu of the 5 minutes as originally stated by the female judge?

I think I heard them say the yellow light comes on when you have 5 minutes remaining. I suppose he just took a little longer at the beginning. Also, it does not appear that they held him strictly to his time limit. "You time has expired, please wrap it up." or something to that effect.

 

[notalawyer]

Do we have any kind of time frame for a verdict?

FYI, It's not a verdict, it a ruling, actually an opinion.

As for the time frame...whenever they choose to make it. Could be a couple months, could be a year or more.

 

[77zach]

Even if they took Mr Friday's advice, the session doesn't start until March 3, 2015. That said, this isn't a tough decision if they'll be honest. It could be written very quickly if they wanted to.

That's ok, gives Fl Carry more time be prepared for a favorable opinion and think of ways to head off the retail federation and the sheriffs. Right Stogie, and Rich?

 

[The Truth]

I wonder why Mr. Friday was only allowed approximately 3 minutes for rebuttal in lieu of the 5 minutes as originally stated by the female judge?

Probably because 3 minutes is a borderline insult to intelligent thought. It's asinine.

 

[StogieC]

He, and the AG, were each allotted 20 minutes for oral argument. He used a little less than 17 minutes for opening.

 

[StogieC]

FYI, It's not a verdict, it a ruling, actually an opinion.

When the DCA renders its decision, I expect there to be multiple opinions that explain the rulings and orders of the court.

 

[77zach]

When the DCA renders its decision, I expect there to be multiple opinions that explain the rulings and orders of the court.

Stogie, before all this started you thought unlicensed OC would be the end result. Do you still feel that way? I just can't believe a court would ever give us gun rights back. Privileges to get permits and register sure (Hiller, Madigan v Moore, etc) but not that. Fl Carry would be responsible for the most significant 2nd amendment restoration in court history. Much less, the legislature honor such a decision.

 

[StogieC]

Stogie, before all this started you thought unlicensed OC would be the end result. Do you still feel that way? I just can't believe a court would ever give us gun rights back. Privileges to get permits and register sure (Hiller, Madigan v Moore, etc) but not that. Fl Carry would be responsible for the most significant 2nd amendment restoration in court history. Much less, the legislature honor such a decision.

I feel good about it.

 

[77zach]

I feel good about it.

Ixtow vowed to eat a very high fiber meal for gold, not green! lol

 

[ccwinstructor]

Oral Arguments are not binding. They may indicate a bit one way or another

Well I finally had the opportunity to view the video and all I can say is WOW~!!!!!!!

The state hemmed and hawed quite a bit and didn't come across well. I'm curious how her "public safety" issue works out when she admits that there are exceptions to the OC ban (hunting, fishing, going to the range, etc.). Not all of those exceptions requires a license and yet the state is perfectly willing to allow OC by people in such situations while wanting to criminalize the licensed person who open carries. I just don't see how the state can think that's a winning argument.

It didn't help that her "understanding" of Heller and McDonald was, I'll being generous, "lacking".

The courts are tricky critters but the questions presented from the bench.....I loved "how would you write the opinion"...... I would say things are looking pretty good.

I will wait for the decision, but I am guardedly optimistic because of the way the Florida statute is written. It is clear that the attorney for the state had not done her homework. No stats on the danger of open carry... because there are none. Did not even know how many states where open carry was not prohibited. Admitted that Carry was a "fundamental right" but claimed it could be regulated on mere "rational basis" standard.

 

[77zach]

Two items

790.10 Improper exhibition of dangerous weapons or firearms.—If any person having or carrying any dirk, sword, sword cane, firearm, electric weapon or device, or other weapon shall, in the presence of one or more persons, exhibit the same in a rude, careless, angry, or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense, the person so offending shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

So doesn't this contradict the AG's opinion that general open carry would be improper? An exhibition implies more than a "brief" exposure and if there are improper exhibitions then doesn't that mean there exist proper exhibitions outside 790.25?

I have a modest proposal should justice rule the day and 790.053 be declared unconstitutional. I say we introduce a bill getting rid of ALL of Fl's "gun laws". We spend millions on CWFL's when those who get them almost never have them revoked for violent crimes with guns. How often do police ask for someone who is carrying to see their permit? I'd say....like never. Because they're carrying concealed. And criminals won't bother getting a permit. Carve out exemptions to preemption for courts and jails, keep 790.10 and all the laws that actually punish aggressive violence, and call it a day. Keep the CWFL process for purposes of reciprocity and for those who wish to carry in government skools.

 

[77zach]

CA AG perceives, then outsmarts alternative outlet theory. Path to national OC?

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-...nition-Concealed-Carry-A-Right-Or-A-Privilege

You have a human and natural right to carry concealed without a permit, but not in the US legal tradition (for the most part). This could, in theory, lay the groundwork for national OC.

 

[ADulay]

790.10 Improper exhibition of dangerous weapons or firearms.—If any person having or carrying any dirk, sword, sword cane, firearm, electric weapon or device, or other weapon shall, in the presence of one or more persons, exhibit the same in a rude, careless, angry, or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense, the person so offending shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

So doesn't this contradict the AG's opinion that general open carry would be improper? An exhibition implies more than a "brief" exposure and if there are improper exhibitions then doesn't that mean there exist proper exhibitions outside 790.25?

I have a modest proposal should justice rule the day and 790.053 be declared unconstitutional. I say we introduce a bill getting rid of ALL of Fl's "gun laws". We spend millions on CWFL's when those who get them almost never have them revoked for violent crimes with guns. How often do police ask for someone who is carrying to see their permit? I'd say....like never. Because they're carrying concealed. And criminals won't bother getting a permit. Carve out exemptions to preemption for courts and jails, keep 790.10 and all the laws that actually punish aggressive violence, and call it a day. Keep the CWFL process for purposes of reciprocity and for those who wish to carry in government skools.

Hmm, just reread your message and started to think about what you've written.

790.10 actually allows the "exhibition" of a firearm (among other things) as long as it is not "in a rude, careless, angry, or threatening manner".

And as we all know,

790.053 Open carrying of weapons.—
"(1) Except as otherwise provided by law and in subsection (2), it is unlawful for any person to openly carry on or about his or her person any firearm . . ."

Is there any chance that perhaps those first six words (Except as otherwise provided by law) that this COULD point to 790.10 to make open carry a viable option as long as you're not threatening anyone in a rude, careless or angry manner??

AD

 

[77zach]

Hmm, just reread your message and started to think about what you've written.

790.10 actually allows the "exhibition" of a firearm (among other things) as long as it is not "in a rude, careless, angry, or threatening manner".

And as we all know,

790.053 Open carrying of weapons.—
"(1) Except as otherwise provided by law and in subsection (2), it is unlawful for any person to openly carry on or about his or her person any firearm . . ."

Is there any chance that perhaps those first six words (Except as otherwise provided by law) that this COULD point to 790.10 to make open carry a viable option as long as you're not threatening anyone in a rude, careless or angry manner??

AD

It assumes that harmless exhibition exists. Time to chuck 790, while leaving in the CWFL option for reciprocity purposes. OC is a right, and if CC is a privilege criminals are going to do it anyway and permit holders are almost never guilty of violent crimes with firearms. The whole thing is a joke and I'm tired of playing the control freaks' games and the legislature should be too.

 

[notalawyer]

Hmm, just reread your message and started to think about what you've written.

790.10 actually allows the "exhibition" of a firearm (among other things) as long as it is not "in a rude, careless, angry, or threatening manner".

And as we all know,

790.053 Open carrying of weapons.—
"(1) Except as otherwise provided by law and in subsection (2), it is unlawful for any person to openly carry on or about his or her person any firearm . . ."

Is there any chance that perhaps those first six words (Except as otherwise provided by law) that this COULD point to 790.10 to make open carry a viable option as long as you're not threatening anyone in a rude, careless or angry manner??

AD

No.

Open carry can be distinguished from exhibition.

Like I said in another post, you can show your buddy your firearm, but if you whip it out in a rude, careless, angry, or threatening manner.

You can be carrying concealed (or take it out of the car, etc.) and pull it out to exhibit it, just don't do it in a rude, careless, angry, or threatening manner.

 

[press1280]

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-...nition-Concealed-Carry-A-Right-Or-A-Privilege

You have a human and natural right to carry concealed without a permit, but not in the US legal tradition (for the most part). This could, in theory, lay the groundwork for national OC.

The CA AG is blowing smoke. They want their cake and to eat it too-they want an OC ban and to continue giving CCWs to whomever they please.

 

[transam86]

fla compared to ga

only because im living in GA for a month till the end of dec then ill be relocating back to Fl. and I can now make the comparison between oc and cc. It is an honor and comfortable to be able to open carry in GA. No worries of getting harrassed by leos no liberals freaking out because a legal gun is showing. A woman ( cashier ) actually joked as I walked into big lots about it .I said its harmless then she proceeded to speak to me about here 9 semi. I dont see what the hell the big deal why Fl. wont pass an open carry. Its so great to dress as you wish not worrying if your gun is gonna show. If I liked GA. ide stay here just for that reason alone to open carry. Sad it is our state wont pass it ( OR STILL STALLED IN CONGRESS WITH THE LIBS ) . IT AINT THE WILD WEST IN GA. we aint havin shootouts here and i even had a guy thank me for open carrying and then proceeded to tell me about his doubble carry shoulder harnesses. I havent seen no one else oc but im only in a small town of gray though i had hit atlanta and macon. Walked in Ham Radio Outlet in Atlanta dressed in black BDU's black tank top and my olive drab 45 strapped to my left hip. Not even a question or raised eye brow. Gee go figure. PLEASE FLORIDA GET ON THE BAND WAGON!!!!!!!!!

 

[BB62]

only because im living in GA for a month till the end of dec then ill be relocating back to Fl. and I can now make the comparison between oc and cc. It is an honor and comfortable to be able to open carry in GA. No worries of getting harrassed by leos no liberals freaking out because a legal gun is showing. A woman ( cashier ) actually joked as I walked into big lots about it .I said its harmless then she proceeded to speak to me about here 9 semi. I dont see what the hell the big deal why Fl. wont pass an open carry. Its so great to dress as you wish not worrying if your gun is gonna show. If I liked GA. ide stay here just for that reason alone to open carry. Sad it is our state wont pass it ( OR STILL STALLED IN CONGRESS WITH THE LIBS ) . IT AINT THE WILD WEST IN GA. we aint havin shootouts here and i even had a guy thank me for open carrying and then proceeded to tell me about his doubble carry shoulder harnesses. I havent seen no one else oc but im only in a small town of gray though i had hit atlanta and macon. Walked in Ham Radio Outlet in Atlanta dressed in black BDU's black tank top and my olive drab 45 strapped to my left hip. Not even a question or raised eye brow. Gee go figure. PLEASE FLORIDA GET ON THE BAND WAGON!!!!!!!!!

Paragraphs, proper spelling and punctuation would greatly improve the readability of your post.

 

[Grapeshot]

--snipped-- SPELLING OR PUNCUATION....................

Might want to take a deep breath. BB62's reply was intended in good spirit, not as an insult.