Deputy accidentally shot while changing in jail locker room

[peter nap]

No, my point is that a rule that elicits a first response of "that simply cannot be true" is bad.

I have no problem with handling a gun as if it were loaded, but I would prefer we classify that under a muzzle control rule, rather than a loaded-unloaded rule.

There is enough illogical thinking in this world: listen to any anti-gun poster child. We don't need our own safety rules contributing to it.

I understand your point, but I will simply never support a rule that is logically fallacious or inconsistent. Bad rules, bad laws, you just can't "assume" people will do what you mean, and not what you say. You have to say it right.

TFred

I still have tears in my eyes from the Mr. Perfect post...:lol:

TFred, I agree with you but see 45 ACP's point. He's looking at it from a common sense angle but unfortunately, that's not what the rule says, it's absolute.

Us country folks were taught to never point it at anything we didn't want a hole in. That's a little easier rule to follow.

When I was in Military School we were issued Springfields. The firing pins were ground down so the rule was, they can't fire. There was also a very lucrative business of turning new firing pins just in case the North Attacked so obviously, the can't fire rule wasn't too wise.

Rules should be rules that can be followed, not rules that you have to apply logic to decipher....Unless of course, you're perfect:lol::lol::lol:

 

[Grapeshot]

--snip--

Us country folks were taught to never point it at anything we didn't want a hole in. That's a little easier rule to follow.

Somebody's got to pen a book "According to Nap" - the straight from the shoulder, simple to understand wisdom and moral messages are cast in a light too seldom seen.

Really, I believe it would sell.

 

[TFred]

The cardinal rule that I originally learned and still teach is "Treat every gun as if it were loaded...ALWAYS."

Never had a problem with that wording or the application thereof.

I understand the idea, I really do. But yours is the same fallacy as the other. I know that there are things you do with your gun after you know it is unloaded that you do not do with your gun loaded. Cleaning is the primary example. If you have a gun without a decocking lever, that would be another. If your rule worked 100% of the time, you would never have any reason to ever unload it, because you would never do anything that required it to be unloaded.

A good rule would account for every situation, and as PN says, not require you to think "does it apply now?"

TFred

 

[TFred]

I still have tears in my eyes from the Mr. Perfect post...:lol:

TFred, I agree with you but see 45 ACP's point. He's looking at it from a common sense angle but unfortunately, that's not what the rule says, it's absolute.

Us country folks were taught to never point it at anything we didn't want a hole in. That's a little easier rule to follow.

When I was in Military School we were issued Springfields. The firing pins were ground down so the rule was, they can't fire. There was also a very lucrative business of turning new firing pins just in case the North Attacked so obviously, the can't fire rule wasn't too wise.

Rules should be rules that can be followed, not rules that you have to apply logic to decipher....Unless of course, you're perfect:lol::lol::lol:

I think that is a rule that works very nearly 100% of the time! Only time I can think that it might not is if you're checking a barrel for cleanliness and you don't have a little mirror so you can see from the other end.

TFred

 

[BillB]

I think that is a rule that works very nearly 100% of the time! Only time I can think that it might not is if you're checking a barrel for cleanliness and you don't have a little mirror so you can see from the other end.
TFred

Here is some interesting background and discussion on the rules...

"All guns are always loaded!" is a ridiculous thing to say. What kind of safety rule is a declarative statement which is patently false?"

http://www.thegunzone.com/therules.html#nb3

 

[speed41ae]

TFred

I understand your point, but because mistakes can be made, I treat every gun that I pickup as a loaded gun. Before I clean any gun that I think is unloaded, I check it to make sure. Before I hand a gun to someone that I believe is unloaded, I always check and show them before I hand it to them. I have never been wrong yet, but I would rather be safe than sorry.

As too the Deputy that shot herself. I was not and do not know enough facts to make a judgement on the matter. I am glad that she was not seriously injured and hope that something good can be learned from this insolent.

 

[TFred]

Here is some interesting background and discussion on the rules...

"All guns are always loaded!" is a ridiculous thing to say. What kind of safety rule is a declarative statement which is patently false?"

http://www.thegunzone.com/therules.html#nb3

Thanks for the link, it looks very interesting, I will take the time to read it carefully.

And yes, that quote is exactly my point. It begs the question, "What other stupid things are these people saying?" Rules, especially safety rules, need to be indisputable.

TFred

 

[TFred]

TFred

I understand your point, but because mistakes can be made, I treat every gun that I pickup as a loaded gun. Before I clean any gun that I think is unloaded, I check it to make sure. Before I hand a gun to someone that I believe is unloaded, I always check and show them before I hand it to them. I have never been wrong yet, but I would rather be safe than sorry.

As too the Deputy that shot herself. I was not and do not know enough facts to make a judgement on the matter. I am glad that she was not seriously injured and hope that something good can be learned from this insolent.

Your practices sound safe to me. In fact your points could be a good rule #1: "Assume every gun is loaded, until you know it is not."

With such a wide variety of personalities that exist in the world, I'm not sure it is possible to come up with one set of rules that works for everyone.

TFred

 

[VW_Factor]

I certainly wouldn't call it a modification to rule one. Something that was taught to me when I was a kid, and stuck with me later on through life. Picking up a gun, or someone handing you a gun, etc.. Open the action, check its chamber condition, always. Doesn't matter if you watched the guy ahead of you at the gun shop check it, and handed it to you. Check it again. Treat it as loaded, until you yourself have verified the condition.

Isn't this what the "Treat all guns as loaded really means"?

People getting on about, well, it can't always be true and junk. Well, derp. Treat it as loaded until you know for certain, double or triple check if you have too, about its condition.

I don't understand why some others wouldn't understand how that works..

I'd also venture to say that perhaps a lot of those kids that "I didn't know it was loaded" would have know had their parents or guardians taught them basics of handling a gun. Either that, or the kid is full of crap and did it on purpose. >.<

 

[wylde007]

I have found more and more here recently that people tend to be far too literal and, as a result, end up taking something in an absolute context without considering that it may be an exaggeration or embellishment.

 

[Venator]

I have found more and more here recently that people tend to be far too literal and, as a result, end up taking something in an absolute context without considering that it may be an exaggeration or embellishment.

What exactly do you mean by that?

 

[peter nap]

What exactly do you mean by that?

Exactly which part are you inquiring about?:lol:

 

[The Wolfhound]

My version is:

All firearms are loaded until PROVEN otherwise. Proof? Bolt back, magazine out, chamber checked, cylinder open and empty, as applicable per specific firearm.
Always keep the muzzle in a safe direction (never point a firearm at anything you are not willing to kill or destroy + know your target and what is behind it)
Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target. (No "buggerhook" on the "bangswitch".)

I find with these I do not need to seek exceptions. Safe firearm handling MUST include similar basics.

 

[Felix]

If I had a mailbox like that, maybe my carrier would pay a bit more attention to the names on the correspondence and stop putting neighbors' letters/junk mail in my box!