Dad wants to buy a Hi-Point .40 S&W - Your thougts or opinions needed

[zack991]

Their quality control is garbage, and the result is that you have some pistols which work great, and some in the same model that are as bad as no other. I have had to work with several armed guards who bought them and when I needed their help the most their weapon failed. Price is not everything, but when it comes to a firearm anyone who trusts their life to a extremely cheap and who's quality control is garbage are just foolish .Cheaper materials, lighter metals. less tolerance on machining, mass production. Sorry but in Home Defense "You only get what you pay for" If your life depends on it, is it worth saving $100 to $200 dollars? I think not, but that is just me. You can get a NEW 45 Glock for just over/under 400 bucks and their quality is not questioned and you know its a damn good pistol. With a HI point your rolling dice with your life and God forbid you or your father rolls snake eyes.

 

[Hugin]

that's good advice. He saw this hi-point at his local BX/PX on base and was intrigued at the $125 price tag. He is retired military but does pretty well for himself. He can afford more ('cause I know he's not diverting any $$ my way) if that's the route he should be going. How much further though? My first handgun was a new glock 19 purchased in Delavan, WI, but I don't think he's going to want to drop 5 or 600 beans on hist first handgun.

Just before my trip overseas, I found out that the PX on Fort Belvoir, VA could order an Armsor 1911 Tactical for $451 total in your hand no additional taxes or fees.

Before making my choice on the type of pistol I wanted to buy my wife and I went to a local range that rented pistols, and tried a few. I found that I prefer an 'ol 1911 in .45acp over anything else that I fired and my wife hated all of the expensive guns I had her shoot (SIG, H&K etc...) and finally fell in love with a Ruger SR9.

We both have hands that are on the smaller side of things and like the single stack magazines. My only other experience with pistols up to this time was with an M9, and I found that to me it seemed that a 1911 in .45acp had less recoil than many 9mm pistols that I fired (probably because it weights twice as much ). Even my wife got a kick out of firing the 1911; she had one of the bigest smiles I've ever seen her to have.

Your father might want to try to find a place that rents weapons and try a few out, before making up his mind. But when/if he does he should see if the local PX can order that weapon for him.

Edit: Not to mention that if you father is retired mil, he may already be familiar with a 1911!

 

[IcrewUH60]

Gang bangers on welfare that don't know any better have hipoints....

lol, I'll let my dad know! He is retired Air Force after all and probably wont mind fitting in with the gang-bangers on welfare...

 

[IcrewUH60]

I subscribe to Gun Tests magazine and it wasn't too long ago (less than a year IIRC) that they tested one or more Hi Point handguns. The results were great for a "Brick" or a "Cheaply made piece of junk" as some have stated. The gun(s) were highly recommended for those that wanted a reliable, albeit inexpensive and heavy handgun.

I will get one if I ever run across them but I have yet to see the .45 ACP model available in the gun stores I frequent. Will I carry it? Nope. Too heavy for me. Will I shoot it? Of course.

And keep in mind that the phrase "Saturday Night Special" was something created by the anti-gun folks way back when (sixties) to put a scare into the sheep that don't know squat about firearms. "Saturday Night Special" was used the way "Assault Weapon" or "Assault Rifle" are used today; To create images of death and destruction in the minds of people who are ignorant.

And I have never laughed at anyone carrying any firearm. What goes on in the minds of some people?

insightful comment. I'll do some search'n around for the article and results. Thanks.

 

[IcrewUH60]

Personal experiences with highpoints. #1 constant feed problems. #2 Magazines hang up and fall out. #3 The weapon is twice the size of a glock, extra bulk to try to make up for inferior materials. #4 Had one literally fall apart in my hand. #5 inferior metalurgy (materials) and design. #6 insufficient accuracy. # 7 very ammo particular. You get what you pay for. In this case I guarantee you will buy regret.

thanks for the insight. Can you elaborate on #4?

 

[IcrewUH60]

No actually its not commonly used to describe "varying levels of agreement" as you describe and if it is then its like a disease that has spread from one forum to another by the mis-users themselves.

I am a forum owner and a mod and participant on a half dozen others and have been on the web since Al Gore and I invented it so I know of what I speak.

+10001.56
just had to.

 

[Bravo_Sierra]

If you're just gonna stand on a square range and plink away at stationary targets, then a Hi-Point is fine. If you're gonna do any kind of intensive training, high volume of rounds or carry it, get a real gun.

 

[George Mann]

1. There has never been a documented case of a Hi-Point falling apart!

2. A Hi-Point is a inherently accurate design, far beyond that of most other pistols, and it only requires a firm wrist to achieve!

3. As with every other mass produced semi-auto, Hi-Point quality can be hit-or-miss! However, they have the best warranty in the business.

Since your father needs a gun for training classes, a Hi-Point is a poor choice, especially if he intends to carry it.

 

[zack991]

1. There has never been a documented case of a Hi-Point falling apart!
Maybe not falling apart but certainly exploding apart due to poor construction.I have seen two do this at the range here in OH when it came to our qualification for my opota.

2. A Hi-Point is a inherently accurate design, far beyond that of most other pistols, and it only requires a firm wrist to achieve!

I would say they are decently accurate, but I would never say far beyond most other pistols. My Springfield, Glock, HK, Colt to just name a few of my babys easy out shoot that cheap pistol. The tolerance that they allow is a joke and not only hurts performance but reliability to safely fire and operate.

3. As with every other mass produced semi-auto, Hi-Point quality can be hit-or-miss! However, they have the best warranty in the business.

Yes as with every company you will have a lemon here and there. Yet that is never the first thing that comes to your mind when you talk about Spingfield, HK, Glock, SIG, S&W. Kimber, ECT. When you hear about HI point It is never anything good. The reason they have a no question ask policy when it comes to correcting broken guns is because their quality control is garbage. I have the same warranty if not better with all the names above and I know I have a better chance at getting a near perfect pistol ever time. These companies are known for making great pistols for around 400 bucks and up. Unlike Hi Point I have a good 65 percent chance of having a problematic gun that does a FTF or locks up all together.

In the OPOTA class i have to take every year to get re-certified I see at least 3 Highpoint from new guards cutting it cheap to save money. I have personally fired over 10 highpoint and 8 of those fired one or two rounds before having to be sent back to the manufacture to be fixed. I have seen well over 40 High point’s fire and out of that number I only remember 5 running smoothly. I refuse to work with any guard who puts the value of their life and mine in the hands of a high point. Sorry for me rambling on, but it’s almost insulting to try and compare their idea of a quality pistol to even the low end pistols in this market. Hi Point and Lorcin for example belong in a bin like you see at the dollar tree and my personal experience with them will never change
.

.

....

 

[George Mann]

A Hi-Point is a inherently accurate design, far beyond that of most other pistols, and it only requires a firm wrist to achieve!

I would say they are decently accurate, but I would never say far beyond most other pistols. My Springfield, Glock, HK, Colt to just name a few of my babys easy out shoot that cheap pistol. The tolerance that they allow is a joke and not only hurts performance but reliability to safely fire and operate.

Your claims are absurd! Your post is so ridiculous that I will ignore all but the quote above.

First of all, your claim about Hi-Points being nothing special in the accuracy department flies in the face of both its design (which you are apparently ignorant of), of which tolerance has virtually no affect on, as well as mine and many other owners real world experience concerning these pistols.

1. I have owned and shot models of nearly every make of pistol. My current Hi-Point (a JHP) is nearly as accurate as my HK MK23! Nearly as much only because the MK23 has a greater range of accuracy.

2. My JHP is definitely one of the most reliable pistols I have come across. It is the basic, reliable design + high tolerances that make this possible! Perhaps you are unfamiliar with a Mil-Spec 1911?

3. Hi-Point pistols often require adjustment of the magazine lips, and 200 rounds successfully cycled through them before one can can realistically depend on them!

Only a few brands of pistols are known to be reliable out of the box!

 

[George Mann]

#1 constant feed problems. #2 Magazines hang up and fall out. #3 The weapon is twice the size of a glock, extra bulk to try to make up for inferior materials. #4 Had one literally fall apart in my hand. #5 inferior metalurgy (materials) and design. #6 insufficient accuracy. # 7 very ammo particular. You get what you pay for.

#1. Adjust magazine feeding lips, shoot with firm wrist.

#2. Rare. Return to factory for free repair.

#3. Ignorance of design! Hi-Points operate on a blow-back principle. A heavy slide is necessary for reliable operation.

#4. This has never been documented, let alone proven!

#5. Hi-Point pistols are made from high quality, automotive grade zinc-alloy (Zamak)! Its design is battle-grade reliable once properly adjusted and broken in!

#6. Shooter error! Hi-Point pistols are inherently accurate!

#7. Rare. See #1 and #5.

 

[cscitney87]

Read my reviews in this very forum subsection. I'll say this....

You won't get through a magazine without at least One jam. If you do- Great job. I know it's possible- just not likely.

When it does shoot- it shoots very accurately due to the barrel being fixed to the frame.

I've owned mine for a year and have put countless boxes of ammo through it. Never found a permanent solution to the sloppy magazines. They will give you trouble from day 1. They practically recommend you widen the lips on your mag straight out of the box- and will tell you so if you call with jamming problems. That'll cure your 2nd round jamming. After that- your magazine spring will still be too tight and you'll jam in the middle of your magazine until the spring is broken in. After that- you'll just jam anyway.

 

[zack991]

Read my reviews in this very forum subsection. I'll say this....

You won't get through a magazine without at least One jam. If you do- Great job. I know it's possible- just not likely.

When it does shoot- it shoots very accurately due to the barrel being fixed to the frame.

I've owned mine for a year and have put countless boxes of ammo through it. Never found a permanent solution to the sloppy magazines. They will give you trouble from day 1. They practically recommend you widen the lips on your mag straight out of the box- and will tell you so if you call with jamming problems. That'll cure your 2nd round jamming. After that- your magazine spring will still be too tight and you'll jam in the middle of your magazine until the spring is broken in. After that- you'll just jam anyway.

I understand that every gun can have issues, but my problem is that for everyone saying it is a quality pistol yet you have to go through all that just to get them to cycle right. For me it just rubs me wrong that the company knows these problems and yet what have they done to correct these problems in let say a update model. They almost act like they enjoy the title of building unreliable pistols. Maybe I am just spoiled but to me all the problems that are almost standard problems for this pistol, yet so many here still consider it to be a quality firearm. Please explain it to me, I just can not see how it can be considered a quality gun. I have shot and owned some very cheap firearms but never had to go anywhere near the length that some here have to go to even get them to even cycle right. Is it like owning a car that never was popular and has a cult like following. It just seem wrong for any company to knowing put out a flaky product and so many act like its perfectly ok because it is a cheaper product. They act like they take zero pride in their work or their product they produce. It could be as simple as I personally feel owning a weapon that is known to be a questionable product that people put their trust in them. I will admit i enjoyed shooting their carbine.

 

[Michigander]

I had the chance to shoot a Hi Point .45 yesterday.

It handled balanced looked and shot like an electric drill. Recoil was mild with commercial target ammo. Shot point of aim very well, and had excellent shootability in general, including having a startlingly decent trigger.

I found it more homely and goofy than a Ruger P90, but actually in a strange disconcerting sort of way it was more pleasant to shoot than any of the other handguns we had with us, which included all of mine and several others, some of them being worth 5 times the price. My Sig was definitely more refined and aggressive feeling, kind of like M3 vs Mustang, but it just felt right in my hand, like it wanted to be shot all day, never putting up a fuss about reliability or serviceable accuracy.

If I was on a budget and didn't need deep concealment, I would have absolutely no problems owning and carrying one for defensive purposes. I would probably go for a more size efficient gun instead, such as a surplus pistol in 9x18 or something, but I for one will not bash Hi Point merely for being cheap.

I see them at the range often, and I've seen one jam once, and that was after over 1000 rounds and no cleaning or lubricating. I'm sure they jam at times like people complain about, but I've met far too many happy Hi Point owners to buy into armchair hype about them being crap just because people on the web say so.

 

[Michigander]

..if you have one & take it to an OC function....you will be laughed at... I mean people have some dignity & self respect....Gang bangers on welfare that don't know any better have hipoints....

I can say confidently as one of the first people to start urban open carrying in Michigan in 2007 that I have never, ever met a gun snob in the OC community. I've met many people in Michigan's OC community who carry Hi Points, and all have happily and proudly owned, carried, and target practice shot their Hi Points for years. Some are on a budget, some just like the platform. I have seen exactly none get laughed at.

One other thing, about tweaking to attain reliability, I would say that 1911's are no less of a crap shoot, the only difference being that I have personally experienced and helped fix a decently large number of 1911 cycling problems. That there are more parts and more people praising their specific brands does not make them morally or mechanically superior. They are still quite often a relentless pain in the ass, even with the higher quality brands, other than the custom grade models. But it's like an American pride issue, since it was a military gun for so long...

 

[George Mann]

I understand that every gun can have issues, but my problem is that for everyone saying it is a quality pistol yet you have to go through all that just to get them to cycle right. For me it just rubs me wrong that the company knows these problems and yet what have they done to correct these problems in let say a update model. They almost act like they enjoy the title of building unreliable pistols. Maybe I am just spoiled but to me all the problems that are almost standard problems for this pistol, yet so many here still consider it to be a quality firearm. Please explain it to me, I just can not see how it can be considered a quality gun. I have shot and owned some very cheap firearms but never had to go anywhere near the length that some here have to go to even get them to even cycle right. Is it like owning a car that never was popular and has a cult like following. It just seem wrong for any company to knowing put out a flaky product and so many act like its perfectly ok because it is a cheaper product. They act like they take zero pride in their work or their product they produce. It could be as simple as I personally feel owning a weapon that is known to be a questionable product that people put their trust in them. I will admit i enjoyed shooting their carbine.

The day that YOU can produce a perfect pistol, and stay in business selling it at an under-$200 retail price will be the day that Hi-Point can as well!

 

[wrightme]

The day that YOU can produce a perfect pistol, and stay in business selling it at an under-$200 retail price will be the day that Hi-Point can as well!

No, he may never be able to do so. Hi-Point already does.

 

[Bill Starks]

HiPoint torture test (I didn't read thru 4 pages to see if anyone else has posted this)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbvvurXmAmg&feature=player_embedded#!

 

[since9]

I see them at the range often, and I've seen one jam once, and that was after over 1000 rounds and no cleaning or lubricating. I'm sure they jam at times like people complain about, but I've met far too many happy Hi Point owners to buy into armchair hype about them being crap just because people on the web say so.

I've never shot a Hi-Point. I'm no stranger to either subversive marketing tactics or personal and group psychology, however, any three of which can result in an undeserved bad rap. I suspect it's largely the latter two in Hi-Point's case, but I wouldn't put it past manufacturers who've lost a lot of lucrative business to Hi-Point to have engaged in the former.

 

[dukenukum]

I have NEVER had a problem with my HI-POINTS I have had problems with Rugers, Glocks are useless to me as I cast bullets and they (Glock ) does not recommend cast bullets ( yes I now I can buy a special barrel) Kimbers are to much money and I don't like imports save for military collectible type guns. I conceal and open carry my HI-POINT .45