CERT Class Open Carry

[usmcmustang]

AG Masto has made it quite clear that she does not answer questions like this from mere citizens. The last such question had to come from the Clark County DA's office. (Her answer in that case was not in our favor.) We need to contact the NVFAC and give them the opportunity to represent us on this issue.

TBG

My intent and purpose was certainly not to get any response out of Ms. Masto. It was just a way of letting her office know that some of the "natives are restless." And of course, if there is a response I suspect it won't be in our favor... but what does that matter? The AG's office has probably already "approved" what LVMPD is doing in this regard and even gone so far as provided their "blessing." The only definitive way this issue will ever be resolved will be by the Nevada Supreme Court. And, who knows, if it get's there and is decided, that too could be "not in our favor." Getting it there is gonna be the grand hurdle.

If you think it opportune for the NVFAC to get involved, I will provide whatever information I have for those folks to review. But when you say "represent us on this issue," just what type of "representation" would that entail? Where and how would they "represent us?"

 

[The Big Guy]

My intent and purpose was certainly not to get any response out of Ms. Masto. It was just a way of letting her office know that some of the "natives are restless." And of course, if there is a response I suspect it won't be in our favor... but what does that matter? The AG's office has probably already "approved" what LVMPD is doing in this regard and even gone so far as provided their "blessing." The only definitive way this issue will ever be resolved will be by the Nevada Supreme Court. And, who knows, if it get's there and is decided, that too could be "not in our favor." Getting it there is gonna be the grand hurdle.

If you think it opportune for the NVFAC to get involved, I will provide whatever information I have for those folks to review. But when you say "represent us on this issue," just what type of "representation" would that entail? Where and how would they "represent us?"

Can make initial contact with them on the issue (pressure). They can push the NRA to get involved. Finding a case and backing it with lawyers. I don't know about you but I don't have the time or money to do it myself. I don't think most of do.

Before you jump off on it, yes, I know that we (OC's) are the poor step children of the NRA. We can still push. Persistance can pay off.

TBG

 

[Merlin]

Attached is the photo of the new signage. I love how the wording has absolutely nothing to do with the law.

I didn't get a chance to confront Sgt. Lake this evening. He was pretty clearly getting out of dodge as soon as the class was over, and had no intention of discussing anything with me. The shame is, I went with the updated pamphlet in hand, with 202.3673 highlighted. I was giddy when I saw the signage.

So how would I go about verifying who is responsible for this illegal graffiti? FOIA request to the NLV Fire Dept? Anyone who has experience with this, I would appreciate your input.

 

[MAC702]

So did you stay armed this time?

Especially after proving that his performance of last week was not out of ignorance, but out of elitism and arrogance.

 

[MAC702]

...At this point, the woman (Page Spencer <pspencer@LasVEgasNevada.gov>), who had been fairly quiet during this whole thing, finally chimed in with her perspective on it.

"Some of the activities you will be participating in are just not a good idea with a gun. It would be a safety issue. We are gonna be rolling around on the floor, tied up, doing search and rescue drills in dark places, that sort of thing"...

Because everyone knows that cops disarm before doing any of that stuff.

 

[Merlin]

So did you stay armed this time?

Especially after proving that his performance of last week was not out of ignorance, but out of elitism and arrogance.

No, I considered it, but with the new signage, it was clear that if I did so, I would be arrested tonight (wrongful or not). I got sh*t to do tomorrow, so it wasn't really an option.

I am contemplating making a shirt with the NRS 202.3673 verbatim on the front. I can make a one-off at Walgreens cheaply. For now, I might fight signage with signage. I sure wish it wasn't too late to have a few of y'all sign up for the class, I would feel a lot better if I had a few cellmates.

 

[usmcmustang]

And... it looks like from the schedule I have seen of upcoming classes that they are to be held on private property... churches and stuff.

 

[usmcmustang]

So how would I go about verifying who is responsible for this illegal graffiti? /QUOTE]

The graffiti you speak of is the "spiritual work" of non other than our esteemed County Sheriff and his upper-echelon cohorts (probably to include the County Fire Commissioner). For you see, they have a "spiritual mission." Why do I say "spiritual?" Well, listen closely to the PIO for the LVMPD... "...NRS 202.3673 does indeed prohibit anyone except law enforcement personnel from wearing/carrying a concealed firearm into a police facility. Whether concealed or not, we enforce this NRS to include all persons entering a police facility wearing a firearm. It is our position that we are following the spirit of NRS 202.3673 by asserting our right to maintain a safe work environment for both our employees and visitors..."

 

[usmcmustang]

They can push the NRA to get involved. Finding a case and backing it with lawyers.

We can still push. Persistance can pay off.

TBG

Nobody is going to "find a case." WE (some of us) will have to orchestrate a case and be willing perhaps to go to jail for 24-72 hours. But BEFORE any of that happens, the assurance of the "backing (of) lawyers" from whatever source would have to be locked in. What organization will provide that "assurance?" I'm thinkin' it ain't the NRA or any organization associated with the NRA. If you can provide something positive there, I'm willing to listen and participate.

 

[FallonJeeper]

So how would I go about verifying who is responsible for this illegal graffiti? /QUOTE]

The graffiti you speak of is the "spiritual work" of non other than our esteemed County Sheriff and his upper-echelon cohorts (probably to include the County Fire Commissioner). For you see, they have a "spiritual mission." Why do I say "spiritual?" Well, listen closely to the PIO for the LVMPD... "...NRS 202.3673 does indeed prohibit anyone except law enforcement personnel from wearing/carrying a concealed firearm into a police facility. Whether concealed or not, we enforce this NRS to include all persons entering a police facility wearing a firearm. It is our position that we are following the spirit of NRS 202.3673 by asserting our right to maintain a safe work environment for both our employees and visitors..."

So if I drive 90 MPH in a 70 MPH speed zone, I'm close and "following the spirit of the law"?

 

[DVC]

GOA (Gun owners of America) is a much better choice. They have the inclination but do not have the resources of the mighty NRA.

Or the Second Amendment Foundation, which has the strongest record of any of them.

 

[DVC]

So if I drive 90 MPH in a 70 MPH speed zone, I'm close and "following the spirit of the law"?

Yes, if you're a cop . . .

Of course, to REALLY do it right, you also have to be steering with your knees because you're talking on a cell phone and typing on the MDT, not wearing a seatbelt (for "officer security"), changing lanes without signalling and slow-rolling through stop signs and stoplights.

 

[ManInBlack]

The problem is that groups like the SAF and GOA lack visibility outside of the hardcore gun rights community; hopefully this will change with more successful lawsuits.

For generations, hunters, "sport shooters," and the like, have been taught by their fathers that joining the NRA is what one does to protect gun rights. Hell, it happened to me, as well. It is no different than the generations of good Republicans who have been taught to vote for that party's candidates exclusively, because that is what you do to keep the country from being spent into oblivion (lol).

 

[Merlin]

Yeah, that whole lvmpd pio release about them enforcing a concealed carry restriction on open carry is some ludicrous stuff. I think that is known as "running roughshod".
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[DVC]

Because everyone knows that cops disarm before doing any of that stuff.

Gotta be fair here and mention that YES, they DO generally do this training while unarmed. They wear gym sweats, or take off their harness before rolling around. In fact, I've seen one class in which part of the drill was to get good at rapid de-harnessing (to go into water for a rescue, or through a small hole, etc).

Myself, I wouldn't do this training while armed, either, I don't like banging my pistol into things. I have something called a "Life Jacket," which is a lockable plastic clamshell sleeve which fits over the pistol, with only an inch or so of the butt and muzzle sticking out. I use it for things like this, where I will be taking off the pistol and setting it down somewhere. It's better than a trigger lock because you don't have to mess with clearing the action first -- just draw from the holster, set into the clamshell and close it.

However, what _I_ might do has no part of this -- it's the OP's right and choice to OC to a place where he isn't prohibited by law from doing so, and he is being denied that right IN VIOLATION OF THE LAW.

 

[The Big Guy]

I made initial contact with NVFAC regarding this issue and the response to date has been less than satisfactory. I will advise and update later.

TBG

 

[DVC]

The problem is that groups like the SAF and GOA lack visibility outside of the hardcore gun rights community.

As far as the public is concerned, yes.

However, those who would deny you your civil rights DO know who SAF is. That word got around fast after the Heller Decision, and then again after McDonald -- and every other court win along the way. Those who might not know about GOA will still immediately understand who they are if you mention them.

To put it another way, the NRA is like VHS and SAF and GOA are like BETA. Everyone knew VHS, but the PROFESSIONALS respected BETA. While the NRA is the political loud noise, SAF comes in and gets things done.

One friend puts it something like this: "The NRA struts like a lifeguard while blowing his whistle, but SAF wades into the water, trips the bully, holds his head down in the surf and rubs his face on the coral! Then the NRA writes a report saying that the problem has been solved, and he wants a raise."

 

[The Big Guy]

As far as the public is concerned, yes.

However, those who would deny you your civil rights DO know who SAF is. That word got around fast after the Heller Decision, and then again after McDonald -- and every other court win along the way. Those who might not know about GOA will still immediately understand who they are if you mention them.

To put it another way, the NRA is like VHS and SAF and GOA are like BETA. Everyone knew VHS, but the PROFESSIONALS respected BETA. While the NRA is the political loud noise, SAF comes in and gets things done.

One friend puts it something like this: "The NRA struts like a lifeguard while blowing his whistle, but SAF wades into the water, trips the bully, holds his head down in the surf and rubs his face on the coral! Then the NRA writes a report saying that the problem has been solved, and he wants a raise."

Funny....and unfortunately true...

TBG

 

[Merlin]

TBG,

Thanks for your efforts on this. Your success with City of Henderson was a large part of what reassured me that it was possible for one man to make a difference. I tell everyone I know about the modified parks signs and such. When I am in the area, I make it a point to take my kids to the CoH parks, 'cause I can. Thanks to you.
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[DVC]

Funny....and unfortunately true...

The NRA has their uses. They're a great gun club, and they are the go-to group for gun safety programs such as Eddie Eagle.

The problem is that when it comes to the war on civil rights, they are The Man Behind the Armor-Plated Desk.