carry in city building

[Mr Birdman]

Are you allowed to carry in a city/bureau/township building if their police department is attached to the building?

 

[BB62]

You might want to check here also:

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/pennsylvania.pdf

 

[Mr Birdman]

bureau building.

Why would one not be allowed to carry in a city/bureau/township building if a police department is attached to the building?

The reason I ask is that I saw a sign in Forest Hills park saying there are no guns allowed in the park and I wanted to go to their council meeting and complain and I did not want to get in trouble for doing so because their building has the police station attached to it .

 

[BB62]

The reason I ask is that I saw a sign in Forest Hills park saying there are no guns allowed in the park and I wanted to go to their council meeting and complain and I did not want to get in trouble for doing so because their building has the police station attached to it .

You know, you can always ask what the law is behind their signage before attempting to enter while armed...

 

[Statkowski]

If this is the Borough of Forest Hills in Allegheny County (which was the only one I could find), if one goes online and checks out their municipal ordinances, one finds Section 16-104 in their Borough Code listing prohibited acts. One such act prohibited is: "To unlawfully possess, use, carry or discharge any firearms."

The operative word in their ordinance, making it not in conflict with state law, is the word "unlawfully". The ordinance doesn't say you can't carry in the park, it just says you can't do it unlawfully.

The sign may be misleading by omitting that "unlawfully" word.

 

[Grapeshot]

If this is the Borough of Forest Hills in Allegheny County (which was the only one I could find), if one goes online and checks out their municipal ordinances, one finds Section 16-104 in their Borough Code listing prohibited acts. One such act prohibited is: "To unlawfully possess, use, carry or discharge any firearms."

The operative word in their ordinance, making it not in conflict with state law, is the word "unlawfully". The ordinance doesn't say you can't carry in the park, it just says you can't do it unlawfully.

The sign may be misleading by omitting that "unlawfully" word.

It is a lot like saying no illegal guns.

 

[Statkowski]

If the sign omits one key word, it's in violation of state law.

§ 6120. *Limitation on the regulation of firearms and ammunition.
(a) *General rule.--No county, municipality or township may in any manner regulate the lawful ownership, possession, transfer or transportation of firearms, ammunition or ammunition components when carried or transported for purposes not prohibited by the laws of this Commonwealth.

Under the color of law, it's prohibiting lawful carry. The sign either needs a word added or the phrase deleted.

Attend the council meeting (carrying or not; it's not illegal). Write a letter, which also works.

If you're legally carrying, or not illegally carrying, ignore the signage.

 

[Mr Birdman]

sign.

here is a pic of the sign in the park.

 

[Statkowski]

Well, looking at the sign and then looking at the actual code (http://ecode360.com/FO3733), it appears to prohibit firearms under the color of law, but not in accordance with the actual law.

Section 6-405 has the penalties for unlawful discharge of a firearm (and the Chapter 6 does have an exception for threat to life of self or others). Section 16-110 covers the penalties for unlawful carrying of a firearm.

So, legally, what does the sign mean? Absolutely nothing, if you're a law-abiding handgun carrier.

 

[countryclubjoe]

Does not the 2nd amendment of the federal constitution trump all these bogus quasi laws/statutes, posted signs, etc ?

Please enlightening me..

Regards
CCJ

 

[countryclubjoe]

The states are sovereign.

I trust you are being humorous, however if not, in modern democracies the people's will is in theory sovereign. Also we have the 9th amendment and 14th amendment of the constitution to support our 2nd amendment right..

A law abiding citizen exercising his/her constitutional rights should not be under the jurisdiction of states quasi laws, statutes, posted signage etc..

" A right un-exercised is a right lost"..

My .02

CCJ

 

[Statkowski]

And all of the preceding is immaterial. Yes, the federal government is a creation of the sovereign states, and all the sovereign states, even if it's not in their state constitution, signed on to the U.S. Constitution, which supposedly clearly states what the government can and cannot do.

Push come to shove, will a district judge or county judge listen to one babble on about state sovereignty or 2nd Amendment supremacy? Not hardly.

The OP asked about the sign, and if it was valid. That question was answered - it is not. Now someone in Allegheny County has to start writing letters to get the offending sign changed or removed, perhaps the Allegheny County Sportsmen's League (http://acslpa.org/) will do so, if so notified.

 

[countryclubjoe]

Your trust is misplaced and mistaken. I am contradicting disrespectfully.

Your disrespect for me and my opinions are dully noted, however your disrespect for the United States Constitution, and the law of the land, while being a sheep, is disrespectful to no one, but yourself..

Like the chameleon changes their hue, you change names, hence from this point forward, you shall no longer be "word-salad". I feel Mr. Sheep is more apropos.

Bah, bah, bah..

My .02
CCJ

 

[Mr Birdman]

up date to the pic

here is a pic of the sign in the park.

Talked to the borough manager and he said he will look into it. He also told me that as a non resident of the borough I could come to the meeting but I could not speak about any issues since I did not live there. :banghead:

 

[Statkowski]

He also told me that as a non resident of the borough I could come to the meeting but I could not speak about any issues since I did not live there. :banghead:

As a former borough council member and council president, I fully understand where you're coming from, and where the borough manager is coming from. Think of it this way, you want to file a lawsuit but don't have standing. The borough council answers to the borough residents; outsiders not so much.