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Barnes & Noble ban on OC

TheDuellist

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
26
Location
Boulder, Colorado, USA
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Your website makes me think you'll appreciate my OC getting today, 1911 in a Serpa plus a t-shirt you can't beat! :lol
<wow>
ZOMG! an OOMKIN! I thought you durids moonfar spamnot spam .45acp! OMFGBBQROFLCOPTERLOL!!11! Non-wow'ers: if that didn't make sense, skip the link below. hehe
( http://sanctorum.negative0.net/druid.htm )
</wow>
p.s. great pic :) i carry my Sig in a level 2 CQC Serpa and thoroughly love it. If i saw you out dressed like that I would have to /cheer and /salute and then check to see if you're pvp flagged.

Have you gotten any resolution yet from B&N?
Actually, I received a phone call from B&N corporate today but wasn't around my phone so got a voice mail. I'm in the final stages of submitting a manuscript to a science journal so I've been sleep deprived for a while now, but plan on returning the call tomorrow.
 

RockyMtnScotsman

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2008
Messages
461
Location
Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
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911 dispatcher: "is he making threats with the gun?"

Pam: "no"

911 dispatcher: "has he removed the gun from it's holster"

Pam: "no" ... "I'm not comfortable with it ..."

.
.
.

Well gee Pam sounds like you need to grow the hell up!! I don't recall ANYone ever promising me that I'd be "comfortable" all the time.

And calling 911 for a non-emergency is fear-mongering Pammy.


:cuss:
 

Evil Ernie

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Nov 18, 2007
Messages
779
Location
Castle Rock, Colorado, USA
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I'm wondering how close they were to calling in the SWAT teams and lobbing CS gas thru the window...sheesh....

C'mon Pam, how about a nice "baaaaaaa"....sheep....
 

TheDuellist

Regular Member
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Jul 14, 2008
Messages
26
Location
Boulder, Colorado, USA
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You remember that game called "gossip" where you tell someone something and they pass it on and they pass it on, etc until it gets to the last person and they say aloud what they heard and it's nothing like the original message?

First, I think the original 911 communications officer was very diligent in getting pertinent information:
1) description
2) has he touched/threatened with weapon
3) does he have any external ID that would identify him as security, etc?
4) where is his handgun?

I think it's instructive that the information from the original communications officer of "white male in his 20's with a handgun in a holster fastened to the back of his pants with nothing identifying him as a security guard who has never touched his handgun nor threatened with it. pam wants him removed." was relayed by dispatch as:

"white 20yo male with a handgun in the back of his pants walking around with no identification who hasn't threatened at this time. staff is nervous."

The original communications officer seemed pretty diligent in getting information from Pam. However, in the relay, the information from police dispatch had a decidedly different tone. Do you see what I mean?

Having a handgun in a holster fastened to the back of your pants carries a totally different connotation than a handgun in the back of your pants. One is OC the other is questionably partially concealed, while also conveying the nuance of just grabbing your pistol and shoving it in the back of your pants, which sounds unprofessional, spur-of-the-moment (ie emotional) and questionable. Also, no ID identifying someone as a security guard means something altogether different than "with no identification."

The "walking around" part is interesting as I didn't hear that at all in the original, in fact, it said my jacket was over my chair, indicating i was sitting down (in fact, i was sitting down working on my laptop drinking a starbucks coffee like a yuppie...don't shoot me). "Not threatening at this time," while I understand the verbiage (I still use "at this time" in some conversation), carries the implication that I *might* threaten at some point in the future. This dispatch description painted me in a totally different light than the original info gathering. Anyone agree with me here? I'm not looking to blame, but just pointing out how some true, earnest, good-faith information gathering can turn into a description that does not paint an accurate picture of the situation, and in fact, seems to exacerbate it.

Also, at about 12 sec before the end of this audio there is a "both units clear and with an FI" or something like that. Anyone know what an FI (or whatever it was he said) means?
 

Citizen

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Joined
Nov 15, 2006
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18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
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TheDuellist wrote:
SNIP "Not threatening at this time," while I understand the verbiage (I still use "at this time" in some conversation), carries the implication that I *might* threaten at some point in the future.
Mu-ha ha ha ha. Two can play at that game. :)

Officer Friendly of Boulder PD is not violating anyone's rights at this time.
 

Chief_of_Scouts

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Messages
37
Location
Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
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TheDuellist wrote:
Anyone know what an FI (or whatever it was he said) means?
FI = Freakin Idiot :p

Just kidding

I really liked Pam's tone of voice. She sounds like a person that is alarmed but trying to remain calm and professional. Her tone conveyed a lot in the 911 call.

Well Duellist, I am no lawyer, but I have taken enough law classes to know that your rights were violated and that you might have a pretty good civil suit case. Unfortunately, the jury, being a body of your peers, will likely be residents of Boulder and may not be very sympathetic to your situation. I hope you have found that attorney that specializes in firearm laws.
 

SANDCREEK

Regular Member
Joined
May 13, 2008
Messages
234
Location
Arlington, Texas, USA
imported post

" Extremism always brings about its OWN destruction ".

" As you SOW - so shall you REAP."

" Do unto others - as you would have them do unto you."

"Be on guard lest scorpions seek repose under your tent."

My point is - We should not defer to the "discomfort" of the "Pams", but we must have IMPATHY for their brain-washed condition, and state of mind. With effort , we can gain their acceptance, and even(I think) their APPRECIATION for making their environment SAFER.

I appreciate the efforts of those on the "front-lines" in this movement. They are putting their "shoulders into it", and their posteriors on the line. We need to recognize that it is going torequire much patience and wisdom to de-program minds that have been molded for years by the anti-gun hysteria, distortion,and lies.

Some folks will never be "comfortable" - unless an armed citizencomes to their rescue someday.

I felt compelled to share my above thoughts today - after reflecting on the news story about the "Critical Mass" bicyclists demonstrations of excess.
 

TheDuellist

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Jul 14, 2008
Messages
26
Location
Boulder, Colorado, USA
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I've received a call from a VP of B&N and also their District Manager for this district, and both were very conciliatory and apologetic and have said in no uncertain terms that their corporate policy is to honor the state's laws, and that OC where provided by the state will not be prohibited in their stores. They stated that the supervisor that called 911 acted wrongly and "highly inappropriately" and she and the entire district has completed thorough retraining in regards to this event.

Everyone I spoke to at corporate B&N were very nice and said this event should never have happened. This went very far up the chain (ie I spoke with a VP that reports directly to the president and they said everyone knew about it) and I feel they took it very seriously. Thank you to those who wrote on my behalf; that primed the pump, as it were, as everyone in corporate that I spoke with told me that they had already started to take action just from those emails, and were in the process of contacting the Boulder PD to get my information to give me a call. They seemed very proactive. One VP told me that when her colleague (an ex-army officer) who is also a VP there heard about a former US Marine being disarmed, escorted out, and banned for OC'ing he was furious.

So, in short, from B&N corporate: in states where OC is provided for by law, their stores will not prohibit you from OC'ing on premise, and they have completed a "retraining" to cover this specific area for sure in my district, and possibly in all of them. A corporate VP as well as the district manager for my district has told me that I am not banned and welcome me back carrying open or concealed.

Thanks to everyone for your support and advice through all of this.
 

lopoetve

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Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
65
Location
, ,
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TheDuellist wrote:
I've received a call from a VP of B&N and also their District Manager for this district, and both were very conciliatory and apologetic and have said in no uncertain terms that their corporate policy is to honor the state's laws, and that OC where provided by the state will not be prohibited in their stores. They stated that the supervisor that called 911 acted wrongly and "highly inappropriately" and she and the entire district has completed thorough retraining in regards to this event.

Everyone I spoke to at corporate B&N were very nice and said this event should never have happened. This went very far up the chain (ie I spoke with a VP that reports directly to the president and they said everyone knew about it) and I feel they took it very seriously. Thank you to those who wrote on my behalf; that primed the pump, as it were, as everyone in corporate that I spoke with told me that they had already started to take action just from those emails, and were in the process of contacting the Boulder PD to get my information to give me a call. They seemed very proactive. One VP told me that when her colleague (an ex-army officer) who is also a VP there heard about a former US Marine being disarmed, escorted out, and banned for OC'ing he was furious.

So, in short, from B&N corporate: in states where OC is provided for by law, their stores will not prohibit you from OC'ing on premise, and they have completed a "retraining" to cover this specific area for sure in my district, and possibly in all of them. A corporate VP as well as the district manager for my district has told me that I am not banned and welcome me back carrying open or concealed.

Thanks to everyone for your support and advice through all of this.
sweet fancy moses! Nice job, Duellist!
 

Chief_of_Scouts

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Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Messages
37
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Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
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The Duellist, great job, congratulations! This incident has restored my belief that common sense does prevail...every now and then.

I will be anxiously awaiting your B&N Part II post. Let us know how it goes the next time you visit B&N while OC'ing and say "hi" to good ol' Pam.
 

Evil Ernie

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Nov 18, 2007
Messages
779
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Castle Rock, Colorado, USA
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Wow! Well done dude!!!!!!! Talk about hitting one outta the park!!!! Oh, you gotta go back and rub it in a little...I know it's not our style, but it's irresistable not to...
 

SANDCREEK

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May 13, 2008
Messages
234
Location
Arlington, Texas, USA
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DUELLIST:Thank you for your service to this nation - AGAIN ! Your dedication to "upholding the Constitution" has made the United States SAFER for everyone .
 

asforme

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Mar 27, 2008
Messages
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Location
Kalamazoo, MI
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Yippie!
278635073_883bd891ec.jpg
 

BB62

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Joined
Aug 17, 2006
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Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
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TheDuellist wrote:
I've received a call from a VP of B&N and also their District Manager for this district, and both were very conciliatory and apologetic and have said in no uncertain terms that their corporate policy is to honor the state's laws, and that OC where provided by the state will not be prohibited in their stores. They stated that the supervisor that called 911 acted wrongly and "highly inappropriately" and she and the entire district has completed thorough retraining in regards to this event...

Wow, just wow!

I hope if I'm ever in your situation, I conduct myself with as much poise and courage as you have.

I tip my hat to you sir.
 
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