Handgun Registration Repeal question

TheQ · Sep 19, 2012

stainless1911 said:
You gain the ability to legally call it a pistol and carry it as such. It wouldn't cost me a lot of money, that would be something I could figure out on my own.

I don't think you get it, it gives you the ability to get a trip to State prison. Deft The Feds will give you another prison sentence when your state sentence is done.

TheQ · Sep 19, 2012

Jared said:
That's always the excuse. First off, the ONLY thing these idiots can do for fincancia;/economy is to repeal laws... but anyway, this is a bigger issue. The senate has been nothing but problems. There is a referendum on the ballot to abolish the state senate. I'm so for it. I hope everyone else is too and they spread the word.

If people want to know another reason to abolish the state senate. That's a 100,000 grand less, a pension less, and one less medical plan per senator.

I don't know of any such ballot proposal. I make it a point to track proposals.

TheQ · Sep 19, 2012

TheQ said:
I don't think you get it, it gives you the ability to get a trip to State prison. Deft The Feds will give you another prison sentence when your state sentence is done.

Have I mentioned since you will have committed a felony, they will take all of your guns. What's more, you will never be able to own a gun again. What's even more, under Michigan law, since you will have committed a felony while in possession of a firearm, there will be a mandatory two year prison sentence -- not probation.

Also, I'm not sure how a prison conviction will affect your "entitlements".

stainless1911 · Sep 19, 2012

TheQ said:
I don't think you get it, it gives you the ability to get a trip to State prison. Deft The Feds will give you another prison sentence when your state sentence is done.

If it is not shorter than 26" then it is not an SBR, and therefore legal by the feds. If in doubt, get a stamp. If it is not longer than 26" then it is a pistol in Michigan. Neither law would be broken.

Big Gay Al · Sep 19, 2012

stainless1911 said:
If it is not shorter than 26" then it is not an SBR, and therefore legal by the feds. If in doubt, get a stamp....

EXCEPT, as already pointed out, SBRs are illegal in Michigan.

stainless1911 · Sep 19, 2012

Big Gay Al said:
EXCEPT, as already pointed out, SBRs are illegal in Michigan.

stainless1911 said:
If it is not shorter than 26" then it is not an SBR, and therefore legal by the feds.

It would have to be 26.00 inches to meet both the federal and state requirements.

Yance · Sep 19, 2012

Not to take sides here, but if you have someone who is a recognized professional in a specific field, like a gunsmith, look over a firearm and verify that it is in fact legal and get documentation to prove that you had it looked at by a certified individual who specifies in a certain field you would have a much better defense if the time comes that you need a defense.

Its like having a mechanic certify that your vehicle is street legal, if theres any questions about it you can fall back on the mechanic and/or any documentation provided that it is in fact street legal.

now given the severity of the crime the question then becomes is it worth it to potentially put yourself in that situation, you would have to be 100% sure that youre I's are dotted and your T's crossed, it would be a fine line to tip toe across so you better make sure youre good at walking a tight rope.

TheQ · Sep 19, 2012

stainless1911 said:
It would have to be 26.00 inches to meet both the federal and state requirements.

Going to get out your micrometer to measure it? I'm sure the State and Feds will.

Just one thousandth over 26 and they'll charge you with CCW. One thousandth under and the charge will be SBR.

Better re-measure after every shot you fire -- the shot may have put you over/under.

HKcarrier · Sep 19, 2012

stainless1911 said:
If it is not shorter than 26" then it is not an SBR, and therefore legal by the feds. If in doubt, get a stamp. If it is not longer than 26" then it is a pistol in Michigan. Neither law would be broken.

stainless1911 said:
You gain the ability to legally call it a pistol and carry it as such. It wouldn't cost me a lot of money, that would be something I could figure out on my own.

I need to revisit the statutes, but are you suggesting that the wording of what constitutes a pistol (not a michigan pistol) is a firearm NOT over 26" (or does it read UNDER 26") and that a rifle is OVER 26", so you're thinking there is some sort of magic "inbetween" length where there is overlap in the qualifications?

TheQ · Sep 19, 2012

HKcarrier said:
I need to revisit the statutes, but are you suggesting that the wording of what constitutes a pistol (not a michigan pistol) is a firearm NOT over 26" (or does it read UNDER 26") and that a rifle is OVER 26", so you're thinking there is some sort of magic "inbetween" length where there is overlap in the qualifications?

I too need to revisit the statute, but that's my understanding of his suggestion. I think it's ludicrous. He better hope his micrometer is properly calibrated.

Does Michigan have a law that says you get a special treat if someone is killed during the commission of a felony you ate involved in? If so, if you ever use that gun defensively, you could be convicted of felony murder, just because someone died during the commission of your felony (even if your shooting was self-defense).

zoom6zoom · Sep 19, 2012

The Federal definitions, with code sections cited:

The NFA, Title 26, United States Code (U.S.C.), Chapter 53, requires that persons manufacturing, importing, transferring, or possessing firearms as defined in the NFA comply with the Act’s licensing, registration, and taxation requirements. The NFA defines the term “firearm” at 26 U.S.C. 5845(a) to include “(3) a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length;” (“short-barreled rifle”) and “(4) a weapon made from a rifle if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length” (“weapon made from a rifle”). The term “rifle” is defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(c) and 27 CFR 479.11 as “a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire a fixed cartridge.” Although not defined in the NFA, the term “pistol” is defined by the Act’s implementing regulations, 27 CFR 479.11, as “a weapon originally designed, made, and intended to fire a projectile (bullet) from one or more barrels when held in one hand, and having (a) a chamber(s) as an integral part(s) of, or permanently aligned with, the bore(s); and (b) a short stock designed to be gripped by one hand and at an angle to and extending below the line of the bore(s)”

stainless1911 · Sep 19, 2012

TheQ said:
Going to get out your micrometer to measure it? I'm sure the State and Feds will.

Just one thousandth over 26 and they'll charge you with CCW. One thousandth under and the charge will be SBR.

Better re-measure after every shot you fire -- the shot may have put you over/under.

I reload, so I'm well accustomed to measuring things to the thousandth. Find a jury that would convict on +/-.001.

ETA I'd make sure to point out that the gun would be shorter on a cold day, and longer on a hot day.

HKcarrier said:
I need to revisit the statutes, but are you suggesting that the wording of what constitutes a pistol (not a michigan pistol) is a firearm NOT over 26" (or does it read UNDER 26") and that a rifle is OVER 26", so you're thinking there is some sort of magic "inbetween" length where there is overlap in the qualifications?

I do, the magic # is 26".

Big Gay Al · Sep 19, 2012

TheQ said:
I too need to revisit the statute, but that's my understanding of his suggestion. I think it's ludicrous. He better hope his micrometer is properly calibrated.

Does Michigan have a law that says you get a special treat if someone is killed during the commission of a felony you ate involved in? If so, if you ever use that gun defensively, you could be convicted of felony murder, just because someone died during the commission of your felony (even if your shooting was self-defense).

When I read the Michigan statute it said "26 inches or less." The federal definition of an SBR says "less than 26 inches." That doesn't really leave a lot of room.

stainless1911 · Sep 19, 2012

Big Gay Al said:
When I read the Michigan statute it said "26 inches or less." The federal definition of an SBR says "less than 26 inches." That doesn't really leave a lot of room.

Ok, then that settles it. Thanks Al.

So much for working within the system. When you do, this is the only possible outcome.

TheQ · Sep 19, 2012

stainless1911 said:
Ok, then that settles it. Thanks Al.

So much for working within the system. When you do, this is the only possible outcome.

As you pointed out, temperature will effect length.

A jury might let you off. Do you have the $ to defend yourself? Maybe you spent it all on your recent gun purchases?

Or maybe you'll plead guilty or nolo-contender again and tell us how you got railroaded?

My point being, you're walking a fine line and do you have the funds to get yourself out of the sh*t heap?

Big Gay Al · Sep 19, 2012

As I look at the definition of an SBR, it ocurs to me, if the barrel remains longer than 16 inches, you might be safe. But you'd have to find a way to reduce the overall length without reducing the barrel length.

(8) The term “short-barreled rifle” means a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length and any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if such weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.

Big Gay Al · Sep 19, 2012

I should point out, the Kahr arms model AOM150 M1A1 Carbine, has an OAL of 25.75 inches with the folding stock folded. The barrel is 18 inches long, and ATF goes by the OAL with the stock unfolded.

This would still be a "Michigan Pistol" under the new statute.

M1A1 Carbine

John Pierce · Sep 19, 2012

stainless1911 said:
Ok, then that settles it. Thanks Al.

So much for working within the system. When you do, this is the only possible outcome.

This site is all about working within the system. It is also about not giving advise that can get people who come here in legal hot water.

Please stop making absurd suggestions just to see what response you get. The whole Michigan forum is suffering from this **** measuring contest that is going on here!

Every day, I try to make a living, keep the servers running, and do guns rights advocacy, but it seems that lately, all I do is answer dozens of PM's, reported posts, and emails from Michigan forum members who want me to defenestrate you.

Please stop giving them a reason or ...

****!

smellslikemichigan · Sep 19, 2012

john is a busy man. how many of his 692 posts do you think have been wasted on stainless?

stainless1911 · Sep 19, 2012

Big Gay Al said:
As I look at the definition of an SBR, it ocurs to me, if the barrel remains longer than 16 inches, you might be safe. But you'd have to find a way to reduce the overall length without reducing the barrel length.

The stock should be easy enough to work with.

John Pierce said:
This site is all about working within the system. It is also about not giving advise that can get people who come here in legal hot water.

Please stop making absurd suggestions just to see what response you get. The whole Michigan forum is suffering from this **** measuring contest that is going on here! Every day, I try to make a living, keep the servers running, and do guns rights advocacy, but it seems that lately, all I do is answer dozens of PM's, reported posts, and emails from Michigan forum members who want me to defenestrate you.

Please stop giving them a reason or ...

****!

I wasnt trying to cause you trouble John, I'm sorry if it did. What I was looking for was why it may or may not be legal or illegal. Al was the only one who seemed to be willing to give an answer to my position.

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