Yakima Open Carrier MWAG Call

[sudden valley gunner]

I was actually referring to the incident on my birthday in Fred Meyer's, but yeah...getting drawn on by deputy Sheriff Dick Butler because I was obeying the law was...interesting to say the least.

My mistake.

Oh ok I remember now.

 

[Difdi]

Yep refusing to show ID seems to frustrate many officers. And I remember your incident and how he withdrew his firearm even though you posed no threat. And had done nothing illegal. Could argue his actions were illegal since you had the legal right by the RCW's to be there.

I find myself wondering...is brandishing a deadly weapon a breach of the peace in Washington?

Can you make a citizen's arrest on a uniformed police officer?

I can just see it: Not breaking any laws, polite, well-informed of rights and lawful obligations. Cop loses it and draws his weapon. "Sir, at this time I am placing you under citizen's arrest for brandishing a deadly weapon and breach of the peace. Please don't resist arrest."

I rather doubt it would end well for anyone involved, but the legal aspects are hilariously messy...

 

[amlevin]

I find myself wondering...is brandishing a deadly weapon a breach of the peace in Washington?

Brandishing is one of those words that is used a lot, by everyone, but it's not included anywhere in the (WA) Statutes.

RCW 9.41,270 requires several "conditions"

carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons

 

[amlevin]

Can you make a citizen's arrest on a uniformed police officer?

I can just see it: Not breaking any laws, polite, well-informed of rights and lawful obligations. Cop loses it and draws his weapon. "Sir, at this time I am placing you under citizen's arrest for brandishing a deadly weapon and breach of the peace. Please don't resist arrest."

I rather doubt it would end well for anyone involved, but the legal aspects are hilariously messy...

Have you ever heard the expression "Dead Right"? Somehow I don't see an encounter like this ending in any way that would have anything "hilarious" about it. Even the legal aspects.

I've noticed that some have pointed out that it could be legal to resist any unlawful arrest, right up to taking the life of the offending officer(s). I hope that those who present this theory are taking into consideration the "Lowest Common Denominator" of those reading this Forum. Not everyone who comes and views these posts are wired properly. While the information may be technically correct the results could be disastrous. Maybe a little forethought before promoting this idea.

 

[Trigger Dr]

Have you ever heard the expression "Dead Right"? Somehow I don't see an encounter like this ending in any way that would have anything "hilarious" about it. Even the legal aspects.

I've noticed that some have pointed out that it could be legal to resist any unlawful arrest, right up to taking the life of the offending officer(s). I hope that those who present this theory are taking into consideration the "Lowest Common Denominator" of those reading this Forum. Not everyone who comes and views these posts are wired properly. While the information may be technically correct the results could be disastrous. Maybe a little forethought before promoting this idea.

Although case law does exist supporting the right to resist unlawful arrest, up to and including deadly force, one must consider the totality of the situation.
I would suggest that unless your circumstances are EXACTLY the same as those in case law, one would stand a very good chance of being convicted. Even with the same circumstances there would be a strong possibility of conviction, as the presentation in court can and will color the decision.
One of my law professors made this statement numerous times, and it is true to the nth degree. "THERE IS ONLY ONE THING POSITIVE IN LAW...AND THAT IS, NOTHING IS POSITIVE IN LAW"
Remember, there is the letter of the law and there is the spirit of the law. They are not always the same and the court may interpret either way. Is it right? Who are we, with limited knowledge, to say?
Try it if you will, just be prepared for the decision.

 

[MSG Laigaie]

I tape

I see no reason to offer additional information especialy if my weapon was removed from me "for officer safety". I do not break the law and do not put myself in a position to appear as doing so.

 

[amlevin]

Although case law does exist supporting the right to resist unlawful arrest, up to and including deadly force, one must consider the totality of the situation.
I would suggest that unless your circumstances are EXACTLY the same as those in case law, one would stand a very good chance of being convicted. Even with the same circumstances there would be a strong possibility of conviction, as the presentation in court can and will color the decision.
One of my law professors made this statement numerous times, and it is true to the nth degree. "THERE IS ONLY ONE THING POSITIVE IN LAW...AND THAT IS, NOTHING IS POSITIVE IN LAW"
Remember, there is the letter of the law and there is the spirit of the law. They are not always the same and the court may interpret either way. Is it right? Who are we, with limited knowledge, to say?
Try it if you will, just be prepared for the decision.

I agree with what you say but my point was more to what would happen when the responding officers arrived. If you survived the first encounter, what would the chances of you surviving the encounter with all those officers, guns drawn, seeing their fellow officer laying there mortally wounded, and you with a gun?

Unless you had the ability to teleport yourself to a lawyer's office so he could arrange surrender to a neutral Department it could be real ugly.

 

[Trigger Dr]

Right you are !!

 

[BigDave]

Are you saying you could be Dead Right! :lol:

 

[sudden valley gunner]

I agree with what you say but my point was more to what would happen when the responding officers arrived. If you survived the first encounter, what would the chances of you surviving the encounter with all those officers, guns drawn, seeing their fellow officer laying there mortally wounded, and you with a gun?

Unless you had the ability to teleport yourself to a lawyer's office so he could arrange surrender to a neutral Department it could be real ugly.

I agree with you and Trigger. I am one who brings that point out. And that it is to show how far past our rights this country has gone, and that if cops would take these rulings seriously maybe it would put a check on their actions, instead of increasingly encroaching and eroding our rights.