• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Welp, it had to happen eventually...

ixtow

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
5,038
Location
Suwannee County, FL
Deleted since the GCO and the rest of the Forum seem to think it's perfectly acceptable for cops to act this way. Not going to waste my time performing a public service to a public that has repeatedly stabbed me in the back for almost my entire life. May you reap what you have sown.
 
Last edited:

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,276
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
Greatly at odds about pushing this.

I guess its just a matter of weighing a summons for no helmet or boots against raising a fuss. I'm assuming the cops can always come back with that charge.

Personally, I would raise as much noise as I could. A felony stop by nervous cops is a deadly situation. All it takes is some misunderstanding. There's that guy at Costco a couple years back. And, there's a dashcam video on YouTube where the cop was so scared he gave the guy the wrong orders and then shot him, without realizing he was giving the guy contradictory orders. Very dangerous situation.

And, its too easy to paint the barney fifes as hysterical. Of course they were hysterical! They felony-stopped you just because you were OCing. What are they gonna say? That they weren't hysterical, but felony stopped you simply to harass you?
 
Last edited:

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,276
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
So, I don't know crap about Georgia's FOIA laws and such. Most likely the Dash Cam footage has already been destroyed.

It's a bummer because this really doesn't affect me. Within 6 - 8 months I'll be spending all but a few weeks a year for the rest of my life in a different country. Ya'll are the ones who have to live with these crazies... Just figured I'd offer to follow through for your benefit but looks like nobody cares.

I don't recall GA having a numerous OC membership; plus you never know how many lurkers are out there apart from checking the number of page views for each GA thread.

Its your call of course. Do understand that cop supervisors may have a file already on some of the attendees at your party; your complaint may be the one that makes a questionable cop desk-bound. Even if they're not on the their last warning, your complaint may give them pause next time they're feeling the itch to throw their weight around.

And, a genuinely good cop supervisor wants to know if his troops are screwing up.
 

KBCraig

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
4,857
Location
Granite State of Mind
Bottom line: I got a 3 gun Felony Stop for wearing Flip Flops and not having a Helmet on.

Riding like that is what we call "felony stupid"... it will eventually sort itself out.

Look, I don't mean to lecture a fellow free adult. As much as I disagree with helmet laws, riding without one is stupid. And even if you choose to ride without a helmet, riding with flip-flops is simply idiotic.
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,276
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
Like so many other things, it may be stupid and insane at one persons skill level, but perfectly fine at another's. I'm willing to bet a person with the skill to do without it is going to live longer than a person who sucks so bad that they keep putting it to use...

If I die of a major head injury I doubt anyone is going to miss me. The life I am forced to live in America is just plain not worth living, so I wouldn't care.

The entire subcontinent of southeast asia would cease to function if not for hoards of people on motorcycles and scooters wearing flip flops and no helmet. In fact, they seem to be doing better than the Americans, and they don't even bother to look where they're going!

Anyway. I got a generic FOIA letter made out, but I'm having trouble hunting down the proper records custodians. I sent them by email (which I know is wrong) just to see if I'd get a response for proper names and addresses. I'd like to find out if my guess about the GSP guy being persuaded into this by the others is true or not, if nothing else.

The statute may require the recipient to forward the records request to the custodian of the record, or notify you about who is the custodian.
 

rmodel65

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
489
Location
, ,
So, I don't know crap about Georgia's FOIA laws and such. Most likely the Dash Cam footage has already been destroyed.

It's a bummer because this really doesn't affect me. Within 6 - 8 months I'll be spending all but a few weeks a year for the rest of my life in a different country. Ya'll are the ones who have to live with these crazies... Just figured I'd offer to follow through for your benefit but looks like nobody cares.



http://georgiapacking.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=19355&hilit=open+records+request
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,453
Location
White Oak Plantation
Most on here know, I am also LE in GA. There are two sides to the coin, first, I do not agree with the felony stop routine that you described, could and should have been done very differently. That being said, they already had a reason to stop you (no helmet and flip flops while riding a motorcycle). The Lowndes SO has just as much jurisdiction over interstate traffic as GSP. If they would have wanted to "mess with you" they could have, you gave them the opportunity by violating traffic laws. They could have detained you (not let you leave on the motorcycle) until you had the proper safety equipment brought to you to comply with the helmet law. That being said, I still don't agree with the felony stop, the temporary confiscation of your weapons, or the harrassment you received concerning firearm carry. I imagine they probably thought that anybody riding a motorcycle on the interstate wearing flip flops and no helmet probably wasn't smart enough to know his rights anyways........LOL..
What does the bolded above mean? Shudda, wudda, cudda is meaningless under the law. You being a LE professional, did the acts of those LEOs, described as occurring, constitute a violation under GA law? If not, then are we to be relieved that the OP was permitted to leave while still violating GA law re helemet and shoes. In other words, the LEOs were being nice.

Are we to encourage the OP to press forward with holding those LEOs accountable for their actions? Or, are those LEOs off the hook due to the infractions related to the absence of a helmet and the wearing of flip-flops. It seems that GA LE officials are quite comfortable with their members drawing their weapons on citizens who are observed violation motorcycle safety laws.
 

smn

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
145
Location
, ,
I suggest you read current Ga law on the topic of confiscating firearms during a traffic stop: State v Jones 289 Ga. App. 176 (2008)
Georgia decisions agree that in order to justify a search of a vehicle for weapons, some conduct on the part of the occupants such as furtive movements or other indications of danger to the officer must be shown, and the officer must have an "objectively reasonable" belief that the occupants of a vehicle are "potentially dangerous." Silva v. State, 278 Ga. 506, 508 (604 SE2d 171) (2004) (driver leaned under seat as if to conceal weapon and drove recklessly while in that position, then offered implausible explanation for his conduct.) Here, no evidence was presented of furtive movements or danger; in fact, the officer candidly acknowledged that the search was merely his standard procedure because any firearm might be stolen. On its face, as noted by Jones, this policy justifies the search of any vehicle occupied by hunters or sport shooters with their firearms, or any pickup truck with a rifle or shotgun on the rear window rack. This is precisely the danger of "carte blanche authority to `secure' all weapons during a routine traffic stop," noted by the special concurrence in Megesi, supra, 277 Ga. App. at 860. "
I point this out because you may want to include it in a complaint letter.
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,453
Location
White Oak Plantation
I'm the first one to grab my torch and pitchfork; when the occasion calls for it.

This is a 4th amendment issue. <snip>
My post was written during your post re the helmet. Also, I am not calling for the villagers to arm themselves with torches and pitchforks. I contend that this is not a 4A issue but a department policy, maybe even a state statute issue re the use of force (drawing weapons) for a traffic infraction.

Thanks to you, Good Sir, for your response.

As I describe above I contend that the trooper and deputies may have acted disproportionately to the offense cited. Are there rules of engagement (when to draw a service weapon) re any "stop" conducted by LE in GA? If so then a summary of those rules of engagement will provide a reference point for the OP and any course of action to be taken to gain a redress of wrongs if he chooses to pursue any recourse. I do not contend that a LEO is violating a citizen's rights if they draw their service weapon if justification (statute/policy) supports that decision.

A LEO must not be permitted to use a level of force that is not absolutely required for the situation that they may find themselves in. LE enjoys a degree of latitude for the use of force that a citizen does not enjoy. The OP cites a specific set of facts and if those facts are to be believed then LE bears the responsibility to justify their actions re the traffic stop.

My question remains, did those LEOs actions comport with state statute and/or department policy. If so then the OP has a tough road ahead. If not, then those LEOs, all three, must be held to account. If the OPs conclusion that the trooper may have been coerced he still used the same level of force as the deputies whether he had any desire to do so prior to the stop.

Thank you for your service and please be safe.
 

MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,385
Location
in front of my computer, WI
ixtow said:
the Citation includes a summons lacking the information I need to fulfill the demand. Further, they NEVER answer the phone.
Either go in person & recording, or send a registered letter w/ signature on receipt asking for the missing information. Maybe include a copy of the ticket. Note the times/dates you've tried to call & the phone hasn't been answered. Make sure it's a wide range of days & times.

ixtow said:
Let's just see how these guys want to play it... Lowndes Co SO flatly rejected my FOIA almost instantly without stating any reason.
...I just got another email back from Lowndes saying that everything I want is exempted and they won't provide any of it
I'm guessing they mean exempted from release? What's their explanation for it?

I'm not familiar with GA laws, but here in WI there's a statue saying that the official presumption is that all government records are available to the public (with a few statutory exceptions for personal information, records of employee punishment, medical records, etc., or if it's not a narrow request, or if the request is unduly burdensome to the record keeper).

If a record keeper wants to deny a FOIA in whole or in part, they have to clearly explain why they're doing so, & it has to have a sufficient & legal reason, or they can be taken to court & ordered to produce the document(s).
 
Top