Washington Cease Fire Event 10/9 Greenlake

[badkarma]

I just noticed that Washington Cease Fire is holding an event. Anyone interested in holding our own non-event in the same proximity?

"Our annual Day of Remembrance event at 10:30 A.M. Sunday, October 9, at Green Lake Park, Seattle."
http://www.washingtonceasefire.org/events

 

[gogodawgs]

My Opinion...

No. They are an irrelevant group, with only 5000 members across the state. There are more than 340,000 citizens with a CPL. I do not wish to give them any attention or any credibility.

A pro-gun Internet community focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life.

Frankly protesting/counter-protesting them only brings attention to them and is not part of my daily life.

 

[jt59]

No. They are an irrelevant group, with only 5000 members across the state. There are more than 340,000 citizens with a CPL. I do not wish to give them any attention or any credibility.



Frankly protesting/counter-protesting them only brings attention to them and is not part of my daily life.

This may be true, but....they apparently have a stated 2012 legislative intiative that we should at a minimum pay attention to:

Legislative Goals

" Washington CeaseFire believes there are several laws that should be passed to reduce gun violence in Washington State. Those states that have the most restrictive gun legislation have just one-sixth the level of gun violence versus those states with the least restrictive laws, according to the book, “Private Gun, Public Health,” by Dr. David Hemenway of the Harvard School of Public Health. Other states have: closed the gun-show loophole; banned the sale of military-style assault weapons; limited handgun sales to one per month; carefully regulated concealed weapon permits, and banned open carrying of guns. None of those policies apply in Washington state, which ranks among the most loosely regulated states in terms of guns. Washington CeaseFire believe those policies should be adopted to save lives in Washington state.

Our legislative priority for the 2012 state legislative session is to prohibit the unconcealed, open carrying of loaded weapons.

It is legal in this state to carry a loaded weapon in full view without a permit, even in government buildings such as the state Capitol – and into legislative hearing rooms during a public hearing.

Open carrying of loaded guns was prohibited in Dodge City during the days of the Wild West and is currently prohibited in such gun-friendly states as Texas, Oklahoma and Florida."


Although they will have a seemingly tough time to make the case that this meshes in any way with the stated goal to reduce gun "violence" it is clear they have us in their sites (as it were).

 

[tombrewster421]

This may be true, but....they apparently have a stated 2012 legislative intiative that we should at a minimum pay attention to:

Legislative Goals

" Washington CeaseFire believes there are several laws that should be passed to reduce gun violence in Washington State. Those states that have the most restrictive gun legislation have just one-sixth the level of gun violence versus those states with the least restrictive laws, according to the book, “Private Gun, Public Health,” by Dr. David Hemenway of the Harvard School of Public Health. Other states have: closed the gun-show loophole; banned the sale of military-style assault weapons; limited handgun sales to one per month; carefully regulated concealed weapon permits, and banned open carrying of guns. None of those policies apply in Washington state, which ranks among the most loosely regulated states in terms of guns. Washington CeaseFire believe those policies should be adopted to save lives in Washington state.

Our legislative priority for the 2012 state legislative session is to prohibit the unconcealed, open carrying of loaded weapons.

It is legal in this state to carry a loaded weapon in full view without a permit, even in government buildings such as the state Capitol – and into legislative hearing rooms during a public hearing.

Open carrying of loaded guns was prohibited in Dodge City during the days of the Wild West and is currently prohibited in such gun-friendly states as Texas, Oklahoma and Florida."


Although they will have a seemingly tough time to make the case that this meshes in any way with the stated goal to reduce gun "violence" it is clear they have us in their sites (as it were).

Way not cool!

 

[BigDave]

"Our legislative priority for the 2012 state legislative session is to prohibit the unconcealed, open carrying of loaded weapons."

Correct me if I am wrong here, but there would have to be a change in our Washington State Constitution

Art.1 Sec 24 RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS. The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, or the state, shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain or employ an armed body of men.
​

Not to say anyone should turn a blind eye to it, though we need to keep having positive events and contacts.

 

[Bookman]

As Gogo, DEROS and I discussed the other day, the anti-gunners in this state are irrelevant. Washington Ceasefire has only 5,000 members statewide. There are over 340,000 active CPL holders. That number still doesn't include gun owners who don't have a CPL. I don't think we need to worry about Washington Ceasefire.

That being said, it's alwats smart to pay attention to what's happening in Olympia and DC. That pretty much goes without saying.

Ralph Fascitelli evidently hasn't realized that WA isn't CA. There's a whole different mindset here. With very few exceptions, I believe that any politician who supported anti-gun legislation would find themselves voted out of office come the next election

 

[amlevin]

Ralph Fascitelli evidently hasn't realized that WA isn't CA. There's a whole different mindset here. With very few exceptions, I believe that any politician who supported anti-gun legislation would find themselves voted out of office come the next election

All good points, however, the one thing that WA Ceasfire may be counting on is the general apathy many seem to have. Yes, they own guns, carry guns, but don't really pay much attention to what's happening in Olympia.

Organizations like Ceasefire may be small in number and viewed as irrelevant by many but one thing worthy of note is that they always seem to get the ear of the Politicians. One or two effective lobbyists can be more of a force than 300-400 thousand disorganized gun owners.

 

[Jeff Hayes]

This may be true, but....they apparently have a stated 2012 legislative intiative that we should at a minimum pay attention to:

Legislative Goals

" Washington CeaseFire believes there are several laws that should be passed to reduce gun violence in Washington State. Those states that have the most restrictive gun legislation have just one-sixth the level of gun violence versus those states with the least restrictive laws, according to the book, “Private Gun, Public Health,” by Dr. David Hemenway of the Harvard School of Public Health. Other states have: closed the gun-show loophole; banned the sale of military-style assault weapons; limited handgun sales to one per month; carefully regulated concealed weapon permits, and banned open carrying of guns. None of those policies apply in Washington state, which ranks among the most loosely regulated states in terms of guns. Washington CeaseFire believe those policies should be adopted to save lives in Washington state.

Our legislative priority for the 2012 state legislative session is to prohibit the unconcealed, open carrying of loaded weapons.

It is legal in this state to carry a loaded weapon in full view without a permit, even in government buildings such as the state Capitol – and into legislative hearing rooms during a public hearing.

Open carrying of loaded guns was prohibited in Dodge City during the days of the Wild West and is currently prohibited in such gun-friendly states as Texas, Oklahoma and Florida."


Although they will have a seemingly tough time to make the case that this meshes in any way with the stated goal to reduce gun "violence" it is clear they have us in their sites (as it were).

This is where SAF, NRA, GOA etc should be stepping in with a counter statement. What we need is a state organization to handle the state stuff.

 

[SigGuy23]

" Washington CeaseFire believes there are several laws that should be passed to reduce gun violence in Washington State. Those states that have the most restrictive gun legislation have just one-sixth the level of gun violence versus those states with the least restrictive laws, according to the book, “Private Gun, Public Health,” by Dr. David Hemenway of the Harvard School of Public Health. Other states have: closed the gun-show loophole; banned the sale of military-style assault weapons; limited handgun sales to one per month; carefully regulated concealed weapon permits, and banned open carrying of guns. None of those policies apply in Washington state, which ranks among the most loosely regulated states in terms of guns. Washington CeaseFire believe those policies should be adopted to save lives in Washington state.

Really? They call these facts. Where the hell do they get their information? Two of the states with the strictest gun laws have the highest crime rate in the country. Illinois and California. LA and Chicago are the worst. Our crime rate is nothing compared to those states.

 

[Freedom First]

They may be few...

"Power is always gradually stealing away from the many to the few, because the few are more vigilant and consistent; it still contracts to a smaller number, till in time it centers in a single person.
"Thus all the forms of governments instituted among mankind, perpetually tend towards monarchy; and power, however diffused through the whole community, is by negligence or corruption, commotion or distress, reposed at last in the chief magistrate."
Samuel Johnson: Adventurer #45 (March 27, 1753)

We cannot vacate the public forum to these fools. To do so allows them an unchecked voice over the affairs of us all.

Counter protest? Eh.

Making absolutely clear to our representatives in our government that they will be answering to us should they fail to protect those Rights we hold so dear? You bet.

 

[Lovenox]

All good points, however, the one thing that WA Ceasfire may be counting on is the general apathy many seem to have. Yes, they own guns, carry guns, but don't really pay much attention to what's happening in Olympia.

Organizations like Ceasefire may be small in number and viewed as irrelevant by many but one thing worthy of note is that they always seem to get the ear of the Politicians. One or two effective lobbyists can be more of a force than 300-400 thousand disorganized gun owners.

In addition, they have the willing, sympathetic ear of the media at large who can turn a story around. Remember the meet and greet at the Federal Way when they asked Ruby about what happened at Forzas?? Like if the two were ever connected....

 

[jsanchez]

Are they remembering all the people who died of gun violence or just their leader tom wesley the federal prosicuitor, there was an article in the seattle times today about his 10 year annversery of his murder on 11 of october. I agree with GOGO, DEROS, and Bookman, I'm not going up there and I'm walking somewhere else than Greenlake to not give these miss guided people any standing. I hope it rains really hard.

 

[jt59]

This is where SAF, NRA, GOA etc should be stepping in with a counter statement. What we need is a state organization to handle the state stuff.

+1 - This is still the nut of the problem and the apathy or generally dis-organization of OC's. To me it is somewhat pointless to include the strength of the 350,000 CPL holders as a group to take a stand to the stated goal of making open carry illegal. I have been told recently by politicians that "no rights are absolute"....and the CPL holders (or a percentage of them) may not have any skin in the game if they are not of the few OC supporters as well. The issue of a "state organization" (for OC and other issues) was polled in the past and had mixed reviews to organization and value. Usually, in the absence of need (program, social, training, support), it is an organized attack such as this that may be a catalyst to generate enough interest to mount a defense. Expecting other organizations to pick this up and run, or getting attny's to defend foks for free when they get in a jam, settling out of court for officer "retraining", in the end just isn't going to get it done.....especially if they are able to raise a significant amount of the funding in the auction that will be dedicated to a legislative intiative. There are lots of laws on the books that don't pass constitutional muster, but were passed anyway in expectation that a legal challenge would be needed and not met. If we are going to do something more than showing up for coffee, then we need to be the standard bearers and have the willingness to push back.

It starts like this: http://www.doh.wa.gov/hsqa/professions/pharmacy/NPLEx.htm

with legislation passed in 2010...and ends up with a photo ID instant tracking database that reports real time purchases to the WSP while people weren't looking.

 

[hermannr]

+1 - This is still the nut of the problem and the apathy or generally dis-organization of OC's. To me it is somewhat pointless to include the strength of the 350,000 CPL holders as a group to take a stand to the stated goal of making open carry illegal. I have been told recently by politicians that "no rights are absolute"....and the CPL holders (or a percentage of them) may not have any skin in the game if they are not of the few OC supporters as well. The issue of a "state organization" (for OC and other issues) was polled in the past and had mixed reviews to organization and value. Usually, in the absence of need (program, social, training, support), it is an organized attack such as this that may be a catalyst to generate enough interest to mount a defense. Expecting other organizations to pick this up and run, or getting attny's to defend foks for free when they get in a jam, settling out of court for officer "retraining", in the end just isn't going to get it done.....especially if they are able to raise a significant amount of the funding in the auction that will be dedicated to a legislative intiative. There are lots of laws on the books that don't pass constitutional muster, but were passed anyway in expectation that a legal challenge would be needed and not met. If we are going to do something more than showing up for coffee, then we need to be the standard bearers and have the willingness to push back.

It starts like this: http://www.doh.wa.gov/hsqa/professions/pharmacy/NPLEx.htm

with legislation passed in 2010...and ends up with a photo ID instant tracking database that reports real time purchases to the WSP while people weren't looking.

This started a while back with Actifed disappearing behind the counter, and having to sign for it when you did ask for and purchase it. Now they are adding Sudifed, Benidryl, and all of the others and want instant access to see if you purchased some in another store too. Stupid waste of publicfunds.

 

[tombrewster421]

Let's not forget that there's a sticky for cleaning up the freeway in Fife scheduled for the same day. Let's rub it in their faces by getting better publicity than them, by doing good.

 

[jt59]

Let's not forget that there's a sticky for cleaning up the freeway in Fife scheduled for the same day. Let's rub it in their faces by getting better publicity than them, by doing good.

I like this idea....I'm planning on being there, but haven't heard much more about the organizing...

Who has the cool placards to put on the side of the road...

Who has the contact to get it up on the reader board

Who has the contact to the news to make it heard....

Who organized this last time?........I'm just a worker bee on this mission.

Who else is planning on coming?...it would be a poor showing with only three of us.

 

[tombrewster421]

Well, I think M1 has all the stuff related to the work. (or at least access) Deros could possibly call his contacts in the media. I suppose Dave Workman would probably also write about it in his column. Anything else?

 

[amlevin]

To me it is somewhat pointless to include the strength of the 350,000 CPL holders as a group to take a stand to the stated goal of making open carry illegal.

Especially since many of those CPL holders think OC is foolish. Had that discussion at the range Wednesday with a fellow shooter. CPL holder, NRA member, gun rights supporter all the way (his words) yet he feels OC makes too many people nervous and wouldn't loose any sleep if it was declared illegal.

It may not be productive to refer to the 350,000 CPL holders that much in an OC campaign. Lets face it, they did get their permit so they could carry Concealed and not just to cover their OC while in a vehicle.

The "Gun Culture" is divided on several issues. These divides actually give the "anti" plenty of ammunition.

 

[jbone]

It may not be productive to refer to the 350,000 CPL holders...

That's my take.


The number is often irrelevant, and, dangerous to assume safety is in numbers. What becomes relevant is the organization with a few people having connections, money and allies in a legislature. We can no longer hold faith in overall numbers as the dominating voice, haven’t for a long time. After all what was the U.S. population when a few; a minuet percentage went against the vast majority and passed Obama Care, or the other liberal/socialist laws we seeing popping up all over the country. A connected and funded social movement will always find ways in which to bypass the numbers. We cannot always assume numbers are the saving grace when social change and politics are married!

 

[Ruby]

In my opinion, it is both foolish and dangerous to ignore Washington Ceasefire or any other anti gun group that is both organized and vocal. We do so at our own peril. Please see the first line in my signature. Also, please remember that in the American War for Independence, it was a minority of the population that believed in that war and fought in it and won. OCers also are a minority of the gun owners in this state. I agree with those who say we cannot count on numbers any more.

I see RCW 270 as part of the problem also; there is too much open to intepretation. We have NO LAW that states that OC is legal, only what is illegal. The antis will definitely interpret it to their viewpoint. Who defines what "manifests an intent to intimidate another" or what "warrants alarm for the safety of other persons?" We've already had a couple of cases along these lines that did not turn out very well or with a clear verdict of no wrong doing. At least that I am aware of; please correct me if I am wrong. The people who wrote this RCW certainly gave themselves (and the state) lots of wiggle room.

Add to this the fact that we reside in an area of the state that is socialist (or seems to be, at least to me) and already anti-gun or apathetic, as was already mentioned. An awful lot of people are mainly interested in surviving financially and could care less about gun rights right now. I'm talking about people who are on the fence about it, not us.

Let's not assume we have nothing to worry about because it's in our Constitution, both federal and state. Yes, we have the 2A but that doesn't mean that they can't regulate where, when, & how. Cali just lost open carry, UNLOADED open carry! I find that incredible!! AFAIK, there has never been a document yet written that can't be changed. How many amendments does our own Constitution have??? It just takes the "right" combination of politics, money, timing, and determination. The antis have a plan, an agenda. We apparently don't!! What are we going to do about it?!? I do not favor going to Greenlake to counter protest, that would be seen as giving weight to their demonstration. But I think we have to take these people and others like them seriously. They are serious, they are organized, and they are well funded from the federal level on down. Yes, we have national organizations like SAF, NRA, etc and they have helped locally, as with the Seattle parks gun ban. But I believe jt59 is correct, we need to do more than meet for coffee. I am not able to because of lack of transportation and my work schedule, but I do support those who can get together to start planning a defense strategy.

I apologize for making this so long, but it was important for me to touch on these points. It is important that we dialogue about this both here and in person. We cannot afford to sit on our hands and do nothing.