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This is what we're up against on the street

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
A bad guy that goes after a citizen OPENLY CARRYING probably is not a coward. While many criminals are, they are the type to pass on high risk targets in the first place. I dealt with such characters as "Babe" Gabriel, and "Cornbread" Horton and they were very very dangerous, and definitely not cowards. But then these types could usually be found at certain locations when they were alive. Having a gun is good, using your noodle along with a gun is much better. Even using your noodle without a gun is better than being a numpty with a gun.
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Messages
3,433
Location
northern wis
. I dealt with such characters as "Babe" Gabriel, and "Cornbread" Horton and they were very very dangerous, and definitely not cowards. QUOTE]

Please enlighten us who these guys were Google does me no good.

Every jurisdiction can have a few really bad guys that one take extreme care in handling.
 
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WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
. I dealt with such characters as "Babe" Gabriel, and "Cornbread" Horton and they were very very dangerous, and definitely not cowards. QUOTE]

Please enlighten us who these guys were Google does me no good.

Every jurisdiction can have a few really bad guys that one take extreme care in handling.

I will have to see if I can find some information relating to them. They were(I believe both dead) some very bad people in Illinois. Babe moved to Colorado after going a few rounds with LE. If memory serves he is suspected of killing two people there.

Both Babe and Cornbread were not people you would run into everyday on the street. They hung out at certain places that were well known for bad guys.

http://www.sj-r.com/x69095387/Babe-Gabriel-notorious-Springfield-criminal-dies-in-Colorado-prison

http://www.leagle.com/decision/19821841676F2d1165_11680

The problem is unless one has knowledge or dealings with the likes of them, nobody really knows who is that dangerous when encountering bad guys. I assume all bad guys are extremely dangerous, and never make the mistake of expecting them to be a coward. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best outcome.
 
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Firearms Iinstuctor

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Messages
3,433
Location
northern wis
I will have to see if I can find some information relating to them. They were(I believe both dead) some very bad people in Illinois. Babe moved to Colorado after going a few rounds with LE. If memory serves he is suspected of killing two people there.

Both Babe and Cornbread were not people you would run into everyday on the street. They hung out at certain places that were well known for bad guys.

http://www.sj-r.com/x69095387/Babe-Gabriel-notorious-Springfield-criminal-dies-in-Colorado-prison

http://www.leagle.com/decision/19821841676F2d1165_11680

The problem is unless one has knowledge or dealings with the likes of them, nobody really knows who is that dangerous when encountering bad guys. I assume all bad guys are extremely dangerous, and never make the mistake of expecting them to be a coward. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best outcome.

Under estimating ones opponent is a good way to end up getting hurt.
 

Marco

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2007
Messages
3,905
Location
Greene County
Being armed is of no help when you have a gun sticking in your face, my friend.


Defeatist attitude, there my friend.

"The incident occurred in 2000. After getting off of work at 11:45pm I went to the gym and left my Colt Delta Elite 10mm under the front seat of my locked car. After finishing my workout I needed coffee ,there's a stop and rob that 's in the same parking lot so I headed to my car to retrieve my wallet and DE and proceeded to the store. That's when I was pan handled by a GIRL 18-25 yrs old at the most, I told the her I don't carry cash and continued to the store.

I got my coffee and was almost at my car when the same GIRL jumped from behind a car pointing a pistol at my abdomen (later determined to be a Raven 25acp with an unloaded chamber) demanding my car keys and my wallet. Surprised by this I told her okay and started to handed her my keys but instead of handing them to her I dropped them while I drew my 10mm and shoved it in her face. Now with my GUN in hand I demanded she hand over her pistol or die, she paused for a moment and stated "it's cool" and then handed me her gun.
I then told her to disappear, when she was far enough I scanned the area and picked up my keys and walked back into the store then called the police from my cell phone. After what seemed like hours (7 minutes) a officer arrived. I didn't know that someone had witnessed the entire incident and had already called the police. The Officer asked what happened, why didn't I comply with her request. and why I let her go?

My answer to his questions where:
I had no intention of letting myself become a victim, the hospital is only a block away. What would you do if you saw
a black man holding a pistol on a white woman? I didn't want some good citizen or a officer to shoot me in the back thinking they where doing the right thing, besides it is your job to catch the criminals my job is to stay alive. "

I know this story to be true I as I now the person it happened to.


My personal attitude when anyone threatens you with deadly force why not go for broke, as you are already dead. . Some of us will not rely on the good nature of those that will try to make us victims.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
Choices

Within the context of this thread -

Sometimes your last resort (lethal force) must be your first choice or you will have no other choices.

Giving up/capitulating, not attempting to prevail when faced with lethal force is a good way to end up...........dead.

Escaping/withdrawing may not be an option.
 

MSG Laigaie

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
3,241
Location
Philipsburg, Montana
......... simple disarming techniques will change the dynamics.............

My personal attitude when anyone threatens you with deadly force why not go for broke, as you are already dead. . Some of us will not rely on the good nature of those that will try to make us victims.[/SIZE][/FONT]


Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.

One of the rules Maj. Gen. James Mattis gave his Marines to live by in Iraq, as quoted in Fiasco: The American Military Adventure in Iraq (2006) by Thomas E. Ricks; as excerpted in Armed Forces Journal (August 2006)

I have been closely confronted by people with firearms on several occasions. Like quite a few of us I have spent time on the "two way range" and have always considered it great training for real life. I was trained early to "go for the throat". IMHO a blow to, or a crushing grip on the adams apple will make an opponent think of nothing but breathing. This is not for everyone, but it has been successful for me(I am breathing still) in the past.
In my last incident, which was not far from my home, an individual put a weapon in my stomach area about six inches from my skin. The reason he did that has been documented elsewhere. My hands were at the same level as his weapon, easy to deflect to his own leg, and ready for the throat.
DO NOT ATTEMPT without a great deal of practice. Train, Train, Train. But do remember, none of us are getting out of here alive, it is up to you as to how long you get to stay.
 

Rusty Young Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
1,548
Location
Árida Zona
Every situation is different.

You can study and practice for a lifetime and still get stuck in a situation you cannot defend against.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't study!

We practice what we can and put it to use when and if we can.

Just like the firearm, hand-to-hand combat is only a tool.

The tool may not work for each situation, but if you do not have it, you will never know.

+1 Well said!. It is better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it... knowledge in this case:p.
 

Rusty Young Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
1,548
Location
Árida Zona
Uh, sorry, how is a disarmed gunman still 'shootable'? Sorry to quibble.

Now, hitting him in the head with his gun, that makes sense.

Simple: barring the presence of any force multiplier (sidearm, rifle, "melee weapon", etc.), disparity of force, especially when it is a large disparity as in the cases of smaller-framed individuals assailed by hulking behemoths, can reasonably constitute a life/death situation.

It may not even be a large disparity of physical force/ability per se, but an inability of the assailant to comprehend any damage inflicted to his/her body, as we can see in both liquored-up berserkers or hallucinating drug-addicts.
 

MyWifeSaidYes

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Messages
1,028
Location
Logan, OH
Likely everyone already knows this, but not letting the bad guy / enemy get that close is the first battle to be fought.

You are correct, but even experienced, alert people can have a lapse of attention and quickly lose that battle...

...and how DO you tell who is the bad guy?
 

laina

Newbie
Joined
Apr 21, 2015
Messages
1
Location
Colorado
A bad guy that goes after a citizen OPENLY CARRYING probably is not a coward. While many criminals are, they are the type to pass on high risk targets in the first place. I dealt with such characters as "Babe" Gabriel, and "Cornbread" Horton and they were very very dangerous, and definitely not cowards. But then these types could usually be found at certain locations when they were alive. Having a gun is good, using your noodle along with a gun is much better. Even using your noodle without a gun is better than being a numpty with a gun.


I adored Babe Gabriel. He was my fathers best friend and we visited him in prison, when I was growing up. I have many letters saved, from when I was a kid, that he wrote me in prison. He didn't die as the bad man, so many know him as. But, because of the things he did, before I was even born,I know his legacy as the "bad guy" will live on. But, I loved him as much as my parents did. He was good to you, if you were good to him.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
I adored Babe Gabriel. He was my fathers best friend and we visited him in prison, when I was growing up. I have many letters saved, from when I was a kid, that he wrote me in prison. He didn't die as the bad man, so many know him as. But, because of the things he did, before I was even born,I know his legacy as the "bad guy" will live on. But, I loved him as much as my parents did. He was good to you, if you were good to him.
Welcome to OCDO Laina.

You make a good point that coincides with something I said recently regarding the death of a national anti-self defense leader - most everyone (99.9%), no matter how misdirected, have family (maybe children and grandchildren) and friends that care about them, love them. Their relationship with these individuals is not what the public sees or for the most part cares about - people will categorize or pigeon hole others according to certain criteria.

Your post is slightly off topic for this thread, as is my reply, but acceptable considering the relevance.

If you wish to share any stories related to Babe Gabriel, please do so in The Social Lounge and leave us a short post with a link here/on this thread.

Don't be too surprised if you hear/see negative reactions though - most often after a bad guy is caught/stopped someone will paint a kinder, gentler portrait of them. I comprehend familial ties and try to exhibit somewhat more understanding I think; however, the caring for someone who did harm to others doesn't excuse them if they were wrong/illegal in those actions. You may need some thick skin to get past some responses. Try to set the stage, make some parameters known as to why you are posting some of Babe's history.

I would find it interesting - I'm still a student of psychology and what motivates people - it was my major in school a lifetime ago.
 
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