Stalked during my Walk today...

[PistolPackingMomma]

Pardon me if I'm a little less than coherent...I've still got a fair amount of adrenaline pumping through me at the moment...

I take my son out for a walk every day, weather permitting, and today was no exception. We stroll all the way down to the end of our neighborhood, probably about a mile or so. It's a very busy street with lots of cars coming and going, because it's the only entrance/exit to our neighborhood.

The first half of our walk was like any other walk we've taken, but on the second half back, a beige car passed us, driving into the neighborhood. As it was passing, the driver was practically leaning out of his window, staring at me. I though he was going to crack his neck at that angle. I noted it, thought it odd but shrugged it off as no big deal. We kept walking and enjoying the sunshine.

Barely 3 minutes later, the same beige car approached, now going in the opposite direction. He stopped in the road, obviously wanting to talk, or wanting something else. I wasn't interested in finding out. Other cars were driving past him, so I pushed the stroller into someone's yard and walked past, ignoring him and keeping several feet between us. At this point, my radar is going off. Something is not right about this. I'm feeling very wary and alert. After I pass him, I frequently glance over my shoulder and watch him. He drives off slowly, as if he's watching me in his mirror. He goes all the way down to the end of the road, and turns into the tennis court parking lot. Now I know he's going to pass us again.

Fortunately, before I left the house, I got a strong feeling to take my pocket camera with me. I pulled it out, turned it on, and set it in the stroller cup holder, so it wouldn't be too obvious, but could still be angled towards the road, and see everything beside us.
About 3-5 minutes and a few cars later, he does pull up.

(Sorry, at the moment I can only link it to photobucket, because youtube converts it to having this funky tracking issue...Click to watch.)



I really wish I hadn't been so polite. I considered asking him why he wanted to know my name, but I didn't expect him to answer truthfully, and I didn't want to engage in the encounter. I wanted to end it.
Is it possible he was just some curious, harmless guy who wanted to meet a stranger out walking her son? Or were my spidey senses tingling for the right reasons? I guess I'll never really know.

I'll tell you one thing that is for damn sure; I'm GLAD I was armed!!!!!
And if he'd known it, I bet he would have been a little less nosy!

 

[michaelm_ski]

I hope you called the police ? I hope you open carry now for abit so as if the dirtbag comes around again he will know that your no easy prey ! Thank god you and your son are alright .

 

[PistolPackingMomma]

I hope you called the police ? I hope you open carry now for abit so as if the dirtbag comes around again he will know that your no easy prey ! Thank god you and your son are alright .

I didn't report it to the police because there really wasn't anything to report. He did not verbally or physically threaten me, and I couldn't read the license plate tag because he had a very yellowed shield over it. I'm debating reporting it to our HOA, since I didn't recognize the car, but we have lots and lots of houses in our sub-division; it's possible I've just never seen him before. Or maybe he was visiting someone?

Unfortunately, South Carolina does not legally allow open carry except on private property Otherwise, if I could have, I would have! I'm so envious of all the other states where the law does not infringe (as much) on people's rights to carry as they wish.

During the whole encounter I was thinking of what actions I would take if it escalated, and though I usually play "what if" games when I walk, (what if someone tries to kidnap me/my son, someone isn't paying attention and is on a collision course with us, etc) it's a lot different with adrenaline pumping through you and only having split second decisions.

 

[carsontech]

I hope you called the police ? I hope you open carry now for abit so as if the dirtbag comes around again he will know that your no easy prey ! Thank god you and your son are alright .

Unfortunately, we can't open carry in public here in SC. We can only carry concealed if we have a "permit".

We would love to open carry here. We do so on private property and whenever we're in an open carry state.

EDIT: The wife beat me too it...

 

[M-Taliesin]

Howdy!
Could not hear what was said to you by the driver. It might be helpful if you'd provided what was said.
But I don't see where the driver did anything illegal. Maybe you're good looking or something and he just wanted to get a good look at a good looking woman? It is possible that's all it is. After all, men never stop looking. That's why they put curtains in a hearse.

I think it is foolish not to report your suspcions to the police along with a good photo of the driver. You might not have experienced an escalation of the issue, but he could be wanted on a whole passle of warrants for more serious issues. That his license plate wasn't clearly visible is highly suspicious. I don't know about your state, but the law in mine requires that the license plate be clearly visible and readable.

If your "spidey senses" were tingling, there is usually good cause to trust them. I had a situation once when my spidey senses went off and I ignored them. Next thing I knew, I was being held up and robbed at gunpoint. Trust your intuition and rely on it. If they're going off, there is usually good reason.

While he may not have done anything to you this time around, what about the next time? Or the next woman walking alone?
Get a good photo of this guy, take it down to the local cop shop and explain the incident to their folks, and let them check it out.
Worst case scenario, they may scoff at your intuitions and say you're being paranoid. Then again, the photo may end up providing them information that takes down a criminal who has a whole mess of wants on him. It won't hurt to have the situation checked out.

In addition, I'd ask for them to step up patrol of your neighborhood with an eye toward possibly intercepting him next time you go out, and get him checked out.

Maybe he was just checking out a good looking woman because he's a guy, or maybe he was merely cruising the neighborhood to kill time. Then again, you might be looking at a serial sex offender with a long rap sheet filled with assaults on women. Don't let it slide, but proactively get help from the cops. When it comes to where the rubber meets the road, wouldn't you rather have them handle the situation than you having to draw your weapon in self defence and end up having to shoot?

Letting it slide may just embolden him next time you go walking. Next time it may not turn out so cordial. Next time it may end up in a self defense situation. Next time you may be required to make that fateful decision whether to draw and fire to save your life or that of your child.
You got cops, have them investigate. That's what they get paid to do. And it could save you untold grief, sure to come whether right or wrong, if you do end up having to pull the trigger.

Good luck and blessings to you.
M-Taliesin

 

[G22shooter]

During a tactical pistol training class I took at Mid-Carolina Rifle Club, taught by Defense Training International, the instructor stressed the following mantra: "Be courteous to all but friendly to none." If someone approaches you, always seek to put more distance between them and yourself and LOUDLY tell them, "I CAN'T HELP YOU."

 

[MKEgal]

:shocker: :shocker: :shocker: :shocker: :exclaim: :exclaim:
Ditto to what other people said: take that video to the police & tell them what you've told us.
If he shows up again try to get any part of his tag.
Talk to your neighbors about him. Maybe others have had a similar experience.
And definitely do NOT be polite or talk to him again, other than to tell him (very loudly)
STAY AWAY!
If he blocks your path or starts to get out of the car, you might even go so far as to put your hand on your pistol grip.

This has been several years ago, but one summer morning I was sitting on my front steps doing something to my bicycle & a van drove by, slowly, then stopped barely past my property line. (Easy to see the tag.)
The guy practically hung out his window & yelled to me "do you live alone?"
What a stupid, obvious question.
I picked up the house phone handset I had sitting next to me & answered, "if you're having car trouble I'll be happy to call police for you".
Suddenly his van was able to move a lot faster.
AFAIK I never saw him again.
These days, he probably wouldn't stop. Most criminals in these parts are well attuned to people with guns.

 

[PistolPackingMomma]

Howdy!
Could not hear what was said to you by the driver. It might be helpful if you'd provided what was said.
But I don't see where the driver did anything illegal. Maybe you're good looking or something and he just wanted to get a good look at a good looking woman? It is possible that's all it is. After all, men never stop looking. That's why they put curtains in a hearse.

I think it is foolish not to report your suspcions to the police along with a good photo of the driver. You might not have experienced an escalation of the issue, but he could be wanted on a whole passle of warrants for more serious issues. That his license plate wasn't clearly visible is highly suspicious. I don't know about your state, but the law in mine requires that the license plate be clearly visible and readable.

If your "spidey senses" were tingling, there is usually good cause to trust them. I had a situation once when my spidey senses went off and I ignored them. Next thing I knew, I was being held up and robbed at gunpoint. Trust your intuition and rely on it. If they're going off, there is usually good reason.

While he may not have done anything to you this time around, what about the next time? Or the next woman walking alone?
Get a good photo of this guy, take it down to the local cop shop and explain the incident to their folks, and let them check it out.
Worst case scenario, they may scoff at your intuitions and say you're being paranoid. Then again, the photo may end up providing them information that takes down a criminal who has a whole mess of wants on him. It won't hurt to have the situation checked out.

In addition, I'd ask for them to step up patrol of your neighborhood with an eye toward possibly intercepting him next time you go out, and get him checked out.

Maybe he was just checking out a good looking woman because he's a guy, or maybe he was merely cruising the neighborhood to kill time. Then again, you might be looking at a serial sex offender with a long rap sheet filled with assaults on women. Don't let it slide, but proactively get help from the cops. When it comes to where the rubber meets the road, wouldn't you rather have them handle the situation than you having to draw your weapon in self defence and end up having to shoot?

Letting it slide may just embolden him next time you go walking. Next time it may not turn out so cordial. Next time it may end up in a self defense situation. Next time you may be required to make that fateful decision whether to draw and fire to save your life or that of your child.
You got cops, have them investigate. That's what they get paid to do. And it could save you untold grief, sure to come whether right or wrong, if you do end up having to pull the trigger.

Good luck and blessings to you.
M-Taliesin

The reason I was hesitant to report it is because he didn't do anything illegal. However, several people have been encouraging me to report it, and the more people say it, the more logic I see to it, so I'm going to see if I can email the incident and transcript to my local PD. We do have cops drive through our neighborhood several days a week (we have a problem with speeders) and several live in our sub-division, but I am going to report it to them as well as our HOA.

This is the transcript of the video:

Suspicious Driver: "How are you?"
Me: "Good, how are you?"
Suspicious Driver: "Do you speak Spanish?"
Me: "I'm sorry?"
Suspicious Driver: "Do you speak Spanish?"
Me: "No."
Suspicious Driver: "Oh. What is your name?"
Me: "Uh, I really don't feel comfortable telling you."
Suspicious Driver: "Oh, okay."
Me: "Have a nice day."

Second car: "You better be careful!"
Me: "Yeah, no joke!"

During a tactical pistol training class I took at Mid-Carolina Rifle Club, taught by Defense Training International, the instructor stressed the following mantra: "Be courteous to all but friendly to none." If someone approaches you, always seek to put more distance between them and yourself and LOUDLY tell them, "I CAN'T HELP YOU."

Excellent advice! I was really "mentally" slapping myself afterwards for being "polite" to him.

:shocker: :shocker: :shocker: :shocker: :exclaim: :exclaim:
Ditto to what other people said: take that video to the police & tell them what you've told us.
If he shows up again try to get any part of his tag.
Talk to your neighbors about him. Maybe others have had a similar experience.
And definitely do NOT be polite or talk to him again, other than to tell him (very loudly)
STAY AWAY!
If he blocks your path or starts to get out of the car, you might even go so far as to put your hand on your pistol grip.

That thought had definitely crossed my mind, and I may have done it, if the second car hadn't been behind him. I didn't want the girls to think I was threatening someone by exposing my gun and having them freak out and call the cops on me. If he had approached me, I most likely would have reacted defensively. I strongly suspect if I were able to OC, he wouldn't have stopped to talk to me...I'm just so glad I was armed and had my camera with me!

This has been several years ago, but one summer morning I was sitting on my front steps doing something to my bicycle & a van drove by, slowly, then stopped barely past my property line. (Easy to see the tag.)
The guy practically hung out his window & yelled to me "do you live alone?"
What a stupid, obvious question.
I picked up the house phone handset I had sitting next to me & answered, "if you're having car trouble I'll be happy to call police for you".
Suddenly his van was able to move a lot faster.
AFAIK I never saw him again.
These days, he probably wouldn't stop. Most criminals in these parts are well attuned to people with guns.

Eek! That could have been a very bad situation; you did great handling that!

Thanks everyone for the advice; I'm going to try to email this incident to our local PD as soon as I can.

 

[Fallschirjmäger]

Report it, create the paper trail. It may have to be used to justify your actions later.

 

[OC-moto450r]

2A

 

[PistolPackingMomma]

Thanks for the good read! I'd heard of the Condition colors, but that was a much more in-depth explanation of them.

I was definitely playing the "what if..." game in my head while waiting for him to pull up again, like what sort of escalations his actions would provoke. If he had moved the car closer to us, or tried to get out of the car, then I would definitely have un-tucked my shirt and put my hand on my gun. If he did not cease and desist after a verbal command to stop, I was prepared to defend my son and myself.

I do not want to have to shoot anyone; my gun is my last resort. But I don't carry this thing for decoration or a false sense of security.

 

[OC-moto450r]

2A

 

[PistolPackingMomma]

Update: I have emailed the incident to the head of the Investigation Dept. at our local PD. Will post if I get a response.

 

[PistolPackingMomma]

Update again:

Email response from my local PD:

PistolPackingMomma;

I have received your email and looked at the video. I apreciate you letting us know about this, and I will look into it. If you should happen to see the vehicle parked at a residence in your neighborhood, please call me and let me know the address. I would also like a copy of the video. I could not download it from Photobucket.

Thanks!
Lt. Kevin Threlkeld

My response;

Lt Threlkeld;
I was not able to attach the entire video, so I edited it down to only the encounter with the strange man. If you need the full video, please just let me know. I will let you know if I see him or the vehicle again. I appreciate your looking into the matter.

Thank you!

PistolPackingMomma

Today's emails;

PistolPackingMomma;

I wanted to let you know that we have identified the person in the vehicle and he has been spoken to. The Chief saw him in the neighborhood on 5-04-2012 and stopped him. He actually lives in the neighborhood. He apologized and said that he did not mean to scare you. He said the he would not do it again. If you have anymore trouble do not hesitate to contact me.

Have a great day!

Lt. Kevin Threlkeld

I have emailed him back thanking him for the update and asking how to start the FOIA process.

 

[rushcreek2]

I spend a good deal of time in the similarly rights-challenged state of Texas where OC also isn't legal with a CHL - but.......

Woman alone walking with her baby is subjected to a 3-round cruise-by resulting in an upgrade to condition "orange".

The holstered handgun is their for your protection, and should have become briefly discernible to ordinary observation - albeit "unintentionally" of course.(Texas version)

 

[MKEgal]

Woman alone walking with her baby is subjected to a 3-round cruise-by resulting in an upgrade to condition "orange".
The holstered handgun... should have become briefly discernible to ordinary observation - albeit "unintentionally" of course. (Texas version)

+1 "Darn wind!" (Never mind that NWS records would show dead calm all day...)

we have identified the person in the vehicle and he has been spoken to. The Chief saw him in the neighborhood on 5-04-2012 and stopped him. He actually lives in the neighborhood. He apologized and said that he did not mean to scare you. He said the he would not do it again

I'll bet he won't, esp. now that the police know who he is & that you're not the sort to put up with :cuss: like that.
Glad they found him.
Wonder what, if any, reason he gave for his very odd behaviour? If he lives nearby it's unlikely he was lost, & I can't think of any legit reason to cruise someone so thoroughly.

 

[PistolPackingMomma]

I spend a good deal of time in the similarly rights-challenged state of Texas where OC also isn't legal with a CHL - but.......

Woman alone walking with her baby is subjected to a 3-round cruise-by resulting in an upgrade to condition "orange".

The holstered handgun is their for your protection, and should have become briefly discernible to ordinary observation - albeit "unintentionally" of course.(Texas version)

The thought crossed my mind, but I opted not to unless he escalated it.

+1 "Darn wind!" (Never mind that NWS records would show dead calm all day...)


I'll bet he won't, esp. now that the police know who he is & that you're not the sort to put up with :cuss: like that.
Glad they found him.
Wonder what, if any, reason he gave for his very odd behaviour? If he lives nearby it's unlikely he was lost, & I can't think of any legit reason to cruise someone so thoroughly.

I wondered too. So I'm getting the FOIA report tomorrow so I can get the details. At the very least it should help me pinpoint his identity or general location so I continue to be vigilant, and possibly change my route if necessary. It's possible he was just a harmless, curious guy, but I'm not taking chances.

 

[PistolPackingMomma]

Got the FOIA report today.

The investigating detective shared my report with the Chief of Police, since he lives in my neighborhood. On 5/4/12, the Chief spotted the suspicious vehicle and pulled it over. He identified the driver. The driver admitted to the incident and stated he did not intend to scare me. He said he was going through a divorce and lived alone a couple streets away. The Chief advised him not the approach people the way he did, and the driver stated he was sorry and understood.

What weirds me out is the report lists him as 58 years old. He's older than my dad, and going through a divorce, and saw no issue with driving past a young mother 30 some years his junior multiple times and asking such odd questions.

 

[rushcreek2]

PistolPackingMama - I know that you were prepared to "present arms" if it became necessary.

The intent of such laws restricting licensed OPEN carry is to address the potential for unlawful "brandishing" of a weapon - but most states' disorderly conduct laws already address that concern.

SC, just like Texas is on thin ice constitutionally given that the SCOTUS has now affirmed that the 2A protects the right to bear arms in case of confrontations while respecting longstanding prohibitions affecting concealed carry = SC and Texas may no longer prohibit habitual OPEN carry, while mandating licensed concealed carry at the same time.

Of course we all know that it will take time for this recent nuance in 2A law to manifest itself in state legislatures, and county court rooms.

 

[Herr Heckler Koch]

The intent of such laws restricting licensed OPEN carry is to address the potential for unlawful "brandishing" of a weapon - but most states' disorderly conduct laws already address that concern.

Please, a citation to the intent of the South Carolina legislature?

An argument might be made that SC's traditional prohibition on legal gun carry stems from the 1860's era Jim Crow laws. Defensive gun carry was illegal in SC until the 1996 passage of The Law Abiding Citizens Self-Defense Act. Open carry for other than particular purposes is still illegal. Thanks to the national gun restrictions leader and The Looney.