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Showing ID to police

alexkaminski888

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2015
Messages
19
Location
Milwaukee, WI
Hi, in a lot of the open carry videos on YouTube I see people refusing to show their ID to police when asked. Is there a reason for this? I know in a lot of states you don't have to, but why wouldn't you? All it seems to do is create hostility which is the last thing you want. If you have no criminal record and you're legally able to own and carry a gun, why not just let them run a background check?
 

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,170
Location
earth's crust
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik

watch this ^^ and the second one (which you will want to watch I'm sure)


You know that cops record information that you give them, right?

So why allow them to document ANYTHING about you, including your whereabouts.

Explain to me why it is any of their business. And how a cop can make you free-er.

You must have $40,000 bucks just lying around to spend on a legal battle that could be avoided simply by saying: I do not consent to any encounter with you.
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,280
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
Hi, in a lot of the open carry videos on YouTube I see people refusing to show their ID to police when asked. Is there a reason for this? I know in a lot of states you don't have to, but why wouldn't you? All it seems to do is create hostility which is the last thing you want. If you have no criminal record and you're legally able to own and carry a gun, why not just let them run a background check?
Ahhhhh. <pleasure> One of my favorite subjects.

First, we each have to make our own decisions. While I might shake my head at the person who cooperates, I must concede that no matter how strongly I might disagree, it is his right to cooperate.

On to your questions. I cannot answer for others. I can only answer for myself.

Thousands of people paid the price in blood, smoke, and treasure across centuries to wrest from government our rights. From Magna Carta to ratification of the Bill of Rights was 576 years. Over half a millennium. Literally over a million Americans have died since then defending them. I will not spit on their graves by waiving those rights. A cop's curiosity in the here-and-now pales in comparison to centuries-long price paid to win and protect those rights.

A heavy price--very heavy, indeed--was paid to obtain our rights. I am absolutely not willing to pay that price twice, to pay it again. Especially for something government should already recognize without the people having to demand it. Rights were way, way too costly to obtain. They are precious, if no other reason than the human suffering and sacrifice it cost to obtain them. Very, very high price. Very, very high value.

Thus, I am unwilling to back up even one inch. Somebody died or suffered badly to gain that one inch. Thus, I will exercise rights to the limit. There is just no way in hell I am willing for anybody to have to go through that again.
 
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Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,280
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
Hi, in a lot of the open carry videos on YouTube I see people refusing to show their ID to police when asked. Is there a reason for this? I know in a lot of states you don't have to, but why wouldn't you? All it seems to do is create hostility which is the last thing you want. If you have no criminal record and you're legally able to own and carry a gun, why not just let them run a background check?
Another reason:

If a cop is confronting me about an openly carried, properly holstered, defensive sidearm, implicit in his investigation is the premise that exercising an enumerated right is somehow suspicious.

Oh, hell no! Being able to defend yourself against criminal attack is a fundamental human right. There is no possible way exercising a fundamental human right can be lowered to the same level as suspicion of criminality. No, no, NO!!
 

Fallschirjmäger

Active member
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
3,826
Location
Cumming, Georgia, USA
... but why wouldn't you?
I dunno, maybe the next time Officer Friendly stops you (when he has no suspicion of illegality, of course) why don't you ask him to provide documentation of his home address; where he sleep, and his wife and children are. I'm sure he'll willingly provide that to you, after all, what harm is there in it?
 

Freedom1Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,463
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
Hi, in a lot of the open carry videos on YouTube I see people refusing to show their ID to police when asked. Is there a reason for this? I know in a lot of states you don't have to, but why wouldn't you? All it seems to do is create hostility which is the last thing you want. If you have no criminal record and you're legally able to own and carry a gun, why not just let them run a background check?
Would you give out all that information to any stranger who simply asks you for it?

So, to answer your question, why not post your full name, birthdate, your DL number, and your address on this forum?

There are cops and former cops on this site so, if you have nothing to hide then you will share that information with the public.

For me it is not about hiding it is just none of a police officer's business who I am.

Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk
 

alexkaminski888

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2015
Messages
19
Location
Milwaukee, WI
This is Alex Kaminski's introduction back in August.
I'm actually now getting certified to be a welder, I couldn't last one semester of the liberal biased "knowledge" the professors tried to feed me. I never thought I would learn about how white males are oppressing minorities in a class that was supposed to be about wildlife and nature....
 

alexkaminski888

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2015
Messages
19
Location
Milwaukee, WI
Code:
A group of police officers are standing outside a Walmart and stopping everyone going in to WalMart and asking for ID so they can check them for outstanding parking tickets/fines/warrants. Do you show your ID?
You have a very good point. All I am saying is that if I was I was stopped by law enforcement I would rather be on my way as fast as I can and I wouldn't want to escalate the situation and create hostility. Do I think police have any right to stop a law abiding citizen? Hell no. But the last thing I want is some ill-informed cop to think I'm a threat and tackle me to the ground or shoot me.
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,337
Location
Nevada
...All I am saying is that if I was I was stopped by law enforcement I would rather be on my way as fast as I can and I wouldn't want to escalate the situation and create hostility. Do I think police have any right to stop a law abiding citizen? Hell no. But the last thing I want is some ill-informed cop to think I'm a threat and tackle me to the ground or shoot me.
When citizens acquiesce to these unlawful fishing expeditions, it emboldens the cops to keep doing them. You will be on your way much faster when the cops learn to stop doing it. You can help by politely refusing and continuing on your way. Indeed, they CAN'T detain you to ask these questions. Don't even stop walking as you politely say something to the effect of: "I don't have time right now, have a nice day."

Or, if you are in the mood, and have the time, you can go with Citizen's reasons, and really give the cop an education while still refusing and then still leave without asking for his permission first.

Your last sentence is a little interesting. If you honestly think this is a possibility for your part of the country, then perhaps you should ask some local experts, or maybe even your local LEA as to what level of training their officers have.
 

Fallschirjmäger

Active member
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
3,826
Location
Cumming, Georgia, USA
... All I am saying is that if I was I was stopped by law enforcement I would rather be on my way as fast as I can and I wouldn't want to escalate the situation and create hostility. Do I think police have any right to stop a law abiding citizen? Hell no. But the last thing I want is some ill-informed cop to think I'm a threat and tackle me to the ground or shoot me.
Alex, if Officer Friendly stops you, it's not because he's interested in you doing 'a thing' legally. He's stopping you because he thinks you did something illegal. He's conducting an investigation to justify his detainment of you.
If your answers don't provide a basis for probable cause and the officer is somehow sure you must be in violation of some law he thinks he remembers, or that one of his coworkers told him was illegal, all it means is that he's not asking the right questions. It means he thinks he needs more answers from you until he latches onto one that gives him either probable cause or a lead in establishing probable cause. You cannot make yourself more innocent by cooperation.


Officer Friendly is just looking to do his job
Officer Friendly is just looking for suspicious conduct
Officer Friendly is just looking for probable cause to make an arrest
Officer Friendly is just looking to put a criminal in jail
Officer Friendly is looking at you
 
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F350

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2012
Messages
942
Location
The High Plains of Wyoming
Hi, in a lot of the open carry videos on YouTube I see people refusing to show their ID to police when asked. Is there a reason for this? I know in a lot of states you don't have to, but why wouldn't you? All it seems to do is create hostility which is the last thing you want. If you have no criminal record and you're legally able to own and carry a gun, why not just let them run a background check?

Well..... I would require he be in proper uniform and use the correct words first.....

Uniform- Black leather trench coat with black fedora.
Correct words (with proper German accent)- PAPERS!! You vill show your identity papers!
 

nobama

New member
Joined
Mar 19, 2009
Messages
756
Location
, ,
Code:
You have a very good point. All I am saying is that if I was I was stopped by law enforcement I would rather be on my way as fast as I can and I wouldn't want to escalate the situation and create hostility. Do I think police have any right to stop a law abiding citizen? Hell no. But the last thing I want is some ill-informed cop to think I'm a threat and tackle me to the ground or shoot me.
They arent gonna shoot you. If a LEO comes to your door and asks if he or she can search your house, because you know you dont have anything to hide right? so just go ahead and let them in, that way they can be on their way in no time. This is the argument we get from people who dont OC, and frankly, dont care about their rights. They believe our rights come from the Government, but they dont. You see, we have this little piece of paper called the Constitution, the one LEO are sworn to uphold, so instead of giving in to their unconstitutional requests, why not hold them to their oath.
 

notalawyer

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2012
Messages
1,061
Location
Florida
Alex, if Officer Friendly stops you, it's not because he's interested in you doing 'a thing' legally. He's stopping you because he thinks you did something illegal. He's conducting an investigation to justify his detainment of you.
If your answers don't provide a basis for probable cause and the officer is somehow sure you must be in violation of some law he thinks he remembers, or that one of his coworkers told him was illegal, all it means is that he's not asking the right questions. It means he thinks he needs more answers from you until he latches onto one that gives him either probable cause or a lead in establishing probable cause. You cannot make yourself more innocent by cooperation.


Officer Friendly is just looking to do his job
Officer Friendly is just looking for suspicious conduct
Officer Friendly is just looking for probable cause to make an arrest
Officer Friendly is just looking to put a criminal in jail
Officer Friendly is looking at you
Or, quite often, simply because he does not like what you are doing.
 

Fallschirjmäger

Active member
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
3,826
Location
Cumming, Georgia, USA
Or, quite often, simply because he does not like what you are doing.
Having been arrested for 'felony trespassing' for doing nothing more than 'not being dressed in proper sports attire' while walking for exercise in a public park, in daytime, while it was open,...... I cannot disagree with you.

The arrest was non prosequi'd but that didn't stop me from spending 13 hours in jail.




It did pay for a brand spankin' new AR engraved with Officer Bell's badge number as the serial number, so I got that going for me.

Would I go it again?
 
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