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Private Security Guards Can Open Carry (Loaded) But The Public Can't?

N6ATF

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1245A Defender wrote:
love it when a cop "needs to run a law abiding citizen for wants n warrents"!
The only need is psycho-pathological, to establish total dominance over law-abiding citizens, by violating the oath, the Constitution, basic human rights... with near-absolute impunity.
 

cali90027

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JJ wrote:
This thread just took a whole new turn...... 

He doesn't even deserve to be a security guard.
yes it has. guess i won't be getting any answers to my questions
 

JJ

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cali90027 wrote:
CA_Libertarian wrote:
Well, SGs are supposedly trained...So, I think the state would argue that SGs are a "special class" of citizen when it comes to the privilege of bearing arms.
But members of the public are also VERY WELL TRAINED. If this is true though, the law/reasoning to allow SGs to open carry loaded weapons is senseless.

We're in the process of challenging this already.
That's great news. Can you provide any info?

Still waiting............
 

Gundude

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Don't forget, Officer saftey invalidates the 4th amendment. Where have I heard this before? It must have been from another LEO. Time to put on my chest waders again.
 

Gundude

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JJ wrote:
cali90027 wrote:
CA_Libertarian wrote:
Well, SGs are supposedly trained...So, I think the state would argue that SGs are a "special class" of citizen when it comes to the privilege of bearing arms.
But members of the public are also VERY WELL TRAINED. If this is true though, the law/reasoning to allow SGs to open carry loaded weapons is senseless.

We're in the process of challenging this already.
That's great news. Can you provide any info?

Still waiting............
You're not holding your breath, I hope. :uhoh:<----you
 

Old Timer

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Armed Security Officers.

Contrary to a lot of FUD in this thread armed Security Officers in California are required to have 40 hours of training, 8 hours initial, 16 hours within the next 30 days, and an additional 16 hours within the next 6 months, with an 8 hour refresher every year for their Guard Card and 14 hours of firearms training, 8 hours in the classroom and 6 hours on the pistol range. They must pass a California Department of Justice background/records check as well as an FBI background/records check. After that they are required to requalify in not less than 4 months nor more than 6 months for the duration of their Exposed Firearms Permit.

As to the "they shouldn't be allowed to do that" mentality, OF COURSE THEY SHOULD! If they attend a proper school run by ethical trainers they will receive the required training and will have a basic understanding of powers to arrest, escalation of force, and the use of deadly force.

With that said I believe all law abiding citizens have the right to carry and 12031 should be repealed or found to be unconstitutional. But to wear a uniform and perform the often very serious duties of an armed security officer is not something to be taken lightly.
 

ReserveCop

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Did you not notice the word "may"??? There could be other factors to consider. ie: Time, location, clothing, possible gang affiliation, tattoos, and oh yes..."reasonable suspicion" or "PC." Could be a lot other things to look at.
Most cops are only looking out for YOUR safety. Start thinking outside the box.
 

yellowneck86

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ReserveCop wrote:
Did you not notice the word "may"??? There could be other factors to consider. ie: Time, location, clothing, possible gang affiliation, tattoos, and oh yes..."reasonable suspicion" or "PC." Could be a lot other things to look at.
Most cops are only looking out for YOUR safety. Start thinking outside the box.
I hope to god you have been fully trained to do a 12031(e) check. As for our safety, you are not legally obligated to protect my life, my family and my property. From your statement, you sound like you are a level 3 voluntary cop who needs to be babysat by a full sworn LEO.

Before you go babbling on what you are going to do to open carriers when you are on duty, you might want to go check out what detective rod tuason from east palo alto pd has dug himself into.
 

Old Timer

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Did you not notice the word "may"??? There could be other factors to consider. ie: Time,
What time of day does the Constitution become null and void according to your training?
location,
At what place does theConstitution become null and void according to your training?
clothing,
What clothing causes theConstitution tobecome null and void according to your training?
possible gang affiliation,
And what memberships causes theConstitution to become null and void according to your training?
What tattoos cause theConstitution to become null and void according to your training?
and oh yes..."reasonable suspicion" or "PC."
And what do you find "reasonably suspicious" about a law abiding citizen going about his legal business.
Start thinking outside the box.
Time for you to find another line of work.
 

CA_Libertarian

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JJ wrote:
cali90027 wrote:
CA_Libertarian wrote:
We're in the process of challenging this already.
That's great news. Can you provide any info?

Still waiting............
Can't a guy take a day off from this forum?

And you really haven't heard of the McDonald case yet? You know... the one that is being hailed near and far as the case that will bring the 2nd Amendment back to life and force the states to respect/protect that right? It's kinda a big deal...

Like I said, the root problem is that the state doesn't recognize that our right exists. Once we have that, there's a whole slew of cases waiting to be heard in court.
 

wolfeinstein

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I just got my guard card and my firearm exposed permit!

We can carry loaded at work, from work to home or vise-versa or if we going to the range!

Main purpose is to observe and report, but if a human life is in danger whether is yours or others you are authorized to use you weapon.
 

poothrowingape

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cali90027 wrote:
Yes I do, and that is true. I was actually waiting for someone to post that side of the argument. However, BID Patrol, which is part of Andrews International "patrols" the public streets of Hollywood while openly carrying loaded weapons. They are not guarding a specific private property, but driving on public streets and walking on public sidewalks actively engaging and detaining individuals in public space—not private. The also leave the boulevard and go into the neighborhoods adjacent to where the businesses are which should not be allowed at all. BID Patrol are not sworn peace officers either, and have no police powers beyond what the average citizen has. I was even told by LAPD to ignore BID officers because of my repeated run-ins with Andrews International while "shooting" (photography) in the streets. That they have no authority to engage me or detain me for taking pictures in public, which does lead to confrontations at times. Yes, they can approach me and try to engage me in a consensual conversation but I don't have to listen to a thing they say or stay to listen to them. I can leave whenever I want. One LAPD officer actually referred to all of them as Paul Barts.
the only possible explanation of that is if the city contracts them to assist peace officers by taking care of the meanialthings cops deal with. As the law state in california any private person(not citizen)*can detain or arrest. *you need not be an american citizen to affect a private persons arrest.

You are very correct about consentual encounters. The same applies to police officers talking to you. unless they detain you, you're free to move about as you please.

The reason they carry loaded is one you have already stated. They wear the uniform, and are seen as an authoritative figure; which in turn, makes them a target. Since they are not sworn police officers, and are often used by people to project their insecurities/fear/hatred of police officers without the repercussions of doing it to an actual peace officer. Soa punk gang banger(or anyone really)can murder/assault them and not get as harsh as a punnishment but still look cool to his buddies for "killin' a po-lice"

C.P.C. 187: MURDER: 15-LIFE OR DEATH

C.P.C. 190(c): MURDER OF A PEACE OFFICER: 25-LIFE OR DEATH

i may be off slightly on my penal codes. im going off of memory here.
 

seattleric007

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I was an armed guard for 10 years in the bay area. You can only carry to and from work in uniform. I use to love riding Bart in the mornings. I would always sit in the emptiest car, and by the time I got to my stop the car would be full of women,kids and old people being safer with me.
 

clutchcargo

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private security have to apply for a permit from B.I.S.I.

to carry loaded and exposed same as leo they have to have permit tocarry open and loaded while in unifrom
 

JJ

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clutchcargo wrote:
private security have to apply for a permit from B.I.S.I.

to carry loaded and exposed same as leo they have to have permit tocarry open and loaded while in unifrom
It's actually BSIS ( Bureau of Security and Investigative Services)
 

mjones

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clutchcargo wrote:
private security have to apply for a permit from B.I.S.I.

to carry loaded and exposed same as leo they have to have permit tocarry open and loaded while in unifrom
LEO do not have a permit for LOC. OC is not generally illegal. They have a loaded exemption in 12031. They also have exemptions for 626.9 and 171b.

LEOs carrying loaded and exposed is very different from a licensed security guard (with regard to the legalese)
 

crash5150

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LEO can carry Loaded and exposed if they have there badge on the belt next to their weapon, with or without a uniform on, on or off duty
 

dirtykoala

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crash5150 wrote:
LEO can carry Loaded and exposed if they have there badge on the belt next to their weapon, with or without a uniform on, on or off duty
and in a school zone
 
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