Police policies regarding OCers and people filming the police.

[WalkingWolf]

I don't help criminals unless it is to close the cell door behind them.

 

[Citizen]

SNIP I find it sad that some people are such bitter bigots that they would rather see people's rights being abused and subsequent lawsuits and discipline (probably not, agaiin due to training and past practice under CBA) than take any responsibility whatsoever for effecting positive change to PREVENT those rights abuses from occurring.

Oh, so you're sad about cops who would rather see people's rights being abused? Sad about the Blue Wall of Silence?

By the way, did you get around to writing that memo calling for intensive training, starting in the academy, on cops not taking compulsory action unless they know to a complete certainty they have genuine legal authority?

 

[WalkingWolf]

Oh, so you're sad about cops who would rather see people's rights being abused? Sad about the Blue Wall of Silence?

By the way, did you get around to writing that memo calling for intensive training, starting in the academy, on cops not taking compulsory action unless they know to a complete certainty they have genuine legal authority?

I have a feeling the other cops listen to him about as much as we do, hence he comes here to do his 'training' instead of doing it where it is supposed to be done. His message would be better spent on sayyyyyy cops.

 

[Citizen]

I have a feeling the other cops listen to him about as much as we do, hence he comes here to do his 'training' instead of doing it where it is supposed to be done. His message would be better spent on sayyyyyy cops.

His posts almost smack of "bridge-building".

Bring it on, I say. We've got too much experience with cops on this forum; its too easy to spot the holes in their self-promoting arguments because we've been all through it before with other cops. Their rationale, and their tactics.

Did you notice how he disregards sound counter-arguments--won't address them? Typical cop forum tactic. Been there, done that. Repeatedly.

Notice how he comes up with examples that aren't really on the point under discussion? Typical cop forum tactic. Been there, done that. Repeatedly.

Its just evasion. And, he seems to think that if he keeps repeating his unsupported assertions, somebody, somewhere, will buy it. While nobody else will notice what he's doing.

Hilarious, actually.

 

[PALO]

I have a feeling the other cops listen to him about as much as we do, hence he comes here to do his 'training' instead of doing it where it is supposed to be done. His message would be better spent on sayyyyyy cops.

You can engage in petty trolling all you want. I was warned about you and your ilk back when I first signed up for this board, but you aren't going to succeed in driving me away with your trolling and god knows your petty insults aren't going to get to me. When people "out" themselves as the OP's did with their admission that they would rather see people's rights being violated by the police than to have to get off their narrow little okoles and actually DO something to improve their community and their PD, it speaks far more than you can in your little attempts to needle me. Go ahead and do your best. I was warned, and I see it was with good cause, but no amount of ****** ******* is going to achieve your goal. Your ilk are a minority in this country, thank god.

hth

cheers

 

[PALO]

His posts almost smack of "bridge-building".

Bring it on, I say. We've got too much experience with cops on this forum; its too easy to spot the holes in their self-promoting arguments because we've been all through it before with other cops. Their rationale, and their tactics.

Did you notice how he disregards sound counter-arguments--won't address them? Typical cop forum tactic. Been there, done that. Repeatedly.

Notice how he comes up with examples that aren't really on the point under discussion? Typical cop forum tactic. Been there, done that. Repeatedly.

Its just evasion. And, he seems to think that if he keeps repeating his unsupported assertions, somebody, somewhere, will buy it. While nobody else will notice what he's doing.

Hilarious, actually.

My assertions are backed by evidence and cites.

*****************************************, but I was already warned about you and your ilk by others way back when I signed up here and your trolling will not drive me away. When you and others out yourselves as you invariably do, like when the OP admitted he'd rather see the PD violate people's rights than get off his butt and help effect positive change, it speaks far more than your trolling ever could as to your real character.

****************************************** that he's going to rip my head off and #$9#( my mother while I watch, I'm certainly not going to be negatively affected by your petty rubbish. The adults will go back to discussing issues, and you can continue with your petty little personal attacks

Troll away

The PURPOSE of this thread, which I started was too help people effect positive change . How? By checking out their local PD's policies regarding OCers and people who film the police and addressing the policies to the people in charge at the PD to change them for the better, in the case of those that are deficient.

Most agencies handle OCers and people filming the cops, in a manner consistent with the law. For those that don't, I gave insight into how to CHANGE things for the better. I realize many, such as yourself, would rather whinge about how bad things are , and the cops are fascists and bla bla bla instead of using the mentioned means to effect positive change and actually get the PD to respond and change for the better

And of course, giving such advice to ivory tower whingers got the response I should have expected from your ilk which was "it's not MY responsibility" along wiht childish retorts

But for those who care. the tools are there in my original post.

hth

 

[Citizen]

You can engage in petty trolling all you want. I was warned about you and your ilk back when I first signed up for this board, but you aren't going to succeed in driving me away with your trolling and god knows your petty insults aren't going to get to me. When people "out" themselves as the OP's did with their admission that they would rather see people's rights being violated by the police than to have to get off their narrow little okoles and actually DO something to improve their community and their PD, it speaks far more than you can in your little attempts to needle me. Go ahead and do your best. I was warned, and I see it was with good cause, but no amount of circle jerking is going to achieve your goal. Your ilk are a minority in this country, thank god.

hth

cheers

So, did you write that "no authority = no action" training memo, yet?

For as much...um...passion as you've put into arguing the importance of taking responsibility and doing something effective, surely you've at least worked up a basic outline for the memo? Right, Mr. Training Officer?

 

[PALO]

So, did you write that "no authority = no action" training memo, yet?

For as much...um...passion as you've put into arguing the importance of taking responsibility and doing something effective, surely you've at least worked up a basic outline for the memo? Right, Mr. Training Officer?

You can keep trolling or you can effect positive change.

 

[Citizen]

My assertions are backed by evidence and cites.

That aside you can continue to troll away and circle jerk with your boyz, but I was already warned about you and your ilk by others way back when I signed up here and your trolling will not drive me away. When you and others out yourselves as you invariably do, like when the OP admitted he'd rather see the PD violate people's rights than get off his butt and help effect positive change, it speaks far more than your trolling ever could as to your real character.

If I'm not going to be affected by some BGD buttmunch screaming that he's going to rip my head off and #$9#( my mother while I watch, I'm certainly not going to be negatively affected by your petty rubbish. The adults will go back to discussing issues, and you can continue with your petty little personal attacks

Troll away

Oh, yeah, right. That's why you're getting heated and resorting to name calling like troll and bigot, and using sexual references like circle *****. Because you're not negatively affected.

 

[Citizen]

I have a feeling the other cops listen to him about as much as we do, hence he comes here to do his 'training' instead of doing it where it is supposed to be done. His message would be better spent on sayyyyyy cops.

Hey, WW!

We're now trolls and ilk! And, I'm a bigot!

Does that make me a trigot? A bigilk? A trilk?

 

[WalkingWolf]

You have to wonder how many times he loses it while on the job...

 

[Citizen]

You have to wonder how many times he loses it while on the job...

Good point.

I wonder if his department knows about all the great PR he's doing for them here.

Actually, I'm kinda glad for the exercise. Haven't had a good statist cop to chew up by exposing his anti-freedom thinking and pathetic debate tactics for a while now.

Oh, and who do you suppose was the snitch that warned him about us trolls and ilk?

 

[WalkingWolf]

Good point.

I wonder if his department knows about all the great PR he's doing for them here.

Actually, I'm kinda glad for the exercise. Haven't had a good statist cop to chew up by exposing his anti-freedom thinking and pathetic debate tactics for a while now.

Oh, and who do you suppose was the snitch that warned him about us trolls and ilk?

It would be ironic if it was the California cop stalker... :lol:

 

[OC for ME]

...blah blah blah...

I've had a lot of people from my community do ride-alongs with me and it's heartening to hear how they value our service and we take constructive criticism very seriously, trying to make our service model better to serve all.

...blah blah blah...

Sorry, could not help myself.

What is the policy in your department regarding a citizen ride-along where the citizen desires to OC? Is there a law that prohibits a citizen to ride-along while OC?

I have approached my little towns LEA, performed my civic duty if you will, and have had a informal chat with the chief from time to time. Policies have not changed even though a citizen illuminated the chief about the policy and its existence without a clear legal foundation in RSMo. I was informed that it is good policing policy for the safety of the community. It seems that illuminating the Board of Alderman is the next step. The chief and her department had their chance.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

Sorry, could not help myself.

What is the policy in your department regarding a citizen ride-along where the citizen desires to OC? Is there a law that prohibits a citizen to ride-along while OC?

I have approached my little towns LEA, performed my civic duty if you will, and have had a informal chat with the chief from time to time. Policies have not changed even though a citizen illuminated the chief about the policy and its existence without a clear legal foundation in RSMo. I was informed that it is good policing policy for the safety of the community. It seems that illuminating the Board of Alderman is the next step. The chief and her department had their chance.

There is no law against it, it could be argued that our state preemption could apply and that legally they can't deny you. Yet they do from what I heard of many OC'ers they have been told they can't OC, some have been allowed to CC and one incident I heard of a cop asked the passenger if he knew how to use a firearm, when the affirmative was given he told him there was one in the glove department just in case he needed help (anecdotal but no reason to doubt the guy). {maybe it was his throw down gun.....:uhoh:, J/k}

I and others have had several meeting with the local PD, city attorneys, Sheriffs, prosecutors and others in local government, we have even gotten them to fully admit they were wrong, their actions are wrong, their policy is wrong, like your experience we too have experienced little change.

A lawsuit on my part on which my emphasis wasn't money but training, failed to stop it from happening again to another OC'er, I will say that when it came to OC'ers many have changed how they work simply because the city doesn't want to get sued. Officer Allen Bass assaulted an OC (yes when you have no RAS,PC and have been trained about OC you don't get to point your gun at someone) his boss admitted the stop was illegal but refused to punish for his use of force, and I have a recording where she states she can't second guess her officers actions in the field, this is after she admitted his stop was "illegal". So is Mr. Slodysko who has the pseudo military ranking of Lt. he is the one that pointed his gun at my face it was an almost fight or flight and something that could have been bad, something that lived with me a long time, how I almost got into a firefight with a cop. Again no PC, RS illegal arrest, coercion threats of punishment if I didn't comply to his illegal demands. And then I was arrested when I tried to file a complaint the department circle their wagons around the outsider who was trying to bring the bad actions of one theirs to light. ( I have a video of me being illegally ejected from the police station, our preemption specifically covers the area I was in)

Yep he is still working for the force, after it has been proven he lied on his report, used unlawful force, abused his authority under color of law, I have seen good cops privately express their disdain, but overall there is no bad apple when the barrel is rotten. The only change that has happened is because of lawsuits and catching them in their bad behavior.

 

[Citizen]

There is no law against it, it could be argued that our state preemption could apply and that legally they can't deny you. Yet they do from what I heard of many OC'ers they have been told they can't OC, some have been allowed to CC and one incident I heard of a cop asked the passenger if he knew how to use a firearm, when the affirmative was given he told him there was one in the glove department just in case he needed help (anecdotal but no reason to doubt the guy). {maybe it was his throw down gun.....:uhoh:, J/k}

I and others have had several meeting with the local PD, city attorneys, Sheriffs, prosecutors and others in local government, we have even gotten them to fully admit they were wrong, their actions are wrong, their policy is wrong, like your experience we too have experienced little change.

A lawsuit on my part on which my emphasis wasn't money but training, failed to stop it from happening again to another OC'er, I will say that when it came to OC'ers many have changed how they work simply because the city doesn't want to get sued. Officer Allen Bass assaulted an OC (yes when you have no RAS,PC and have been trained about OC you don't get to point your gun at someone) his boss admitted the stop was illegal but refused to punish for his use of force, and I have a recording where she states she can't second guess her officers actions in the field, this is after she admitted his stop was "illegal". So is Mr. Slodysko who has the pseudo military ranking of Lt. he is the one that pointed his gun at my face it was an almost fight or flight and something that could have been bad, something that lived with me a long time, how I almost got into a firefight with a cop. Again no PC, RS illegal arrest, coercion threats of punishment if I didn't comply to his illegal demands. And then I was arrested when I tried to file a complaint the department circle their wagons around the outsider who was trying to bring the bad actions of one theirs to light. ( I have a video of me being illegally ejected from the police station, our preemption specifically covers the area I was in)

Yep he is still working for the force, after it has been proven he lied on his report, used unlawful force, abused his authority under color of law, I have seen good cops privately express their disdain, but overall there is no bad apple when the barrel is rotten. The only change that has happened is because of lawsuits and catching them in their bad behavior.

+1. Thanks for the reminder. I had forgotten all the effort you put in on that.

WOTPALO knows he's misdirecting. He knows the main policies about OCers and videographers are already vetted by attorneys. He knows the fundamental that is not being followed (no authority = no action) was already in place before OCers and videographers even came along.

He would have us believe that cops who illegally detain OCers and seize video cameras are just nice men trying to do their job. Yet, it doesn't take two brain cells to compare decency and leaving people alone unless you have clear and unquestionable authority of law with the cop behavior under discussion. Just make an estimate of the attitudes necessarily underlying the cops' behavior--they can't possibly be nice guys.

But, he would have us believe that a little afternoon tea with these willful rights violators would change things.

And, then when I ask him if he, from his position as a training officer, has started on the very training point that would handle vast swaths of police misconduct even broader than OC and videography, and set up the violators for discplinary procedure under their own lax, protective, disciplinary policies, he calls me a troll, bigot, and ilk.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

+1. Thanks for the reminder. I had forgotten all the effort you put in on that.

WOTPALO knows he's misdirecting. He knows the main policies about OCers and videographers are already vetted by attorneys. He knows the fundamental that is not being followed (no authority = no action) was already in place before OCers and videographers even came along.

He would have us believe that cops who illegally detain OCers and seize video cameras are just nice men trying to do their job. Yet, it doesn't take two brain cells to compare decency and leaving people alone unless you have clear and unquestionable authority of law with the cop behavior under discussion. Just make an estimate of the attitudes necessarily underlying the cops' behavior--they can't possibly be nice guys.

But, he would have us believe that a little afternoon tea with these willful rights violators would change things.

And, then when I ask him if he, from his position as a training officer, has started on the very training point that would handle vast swaths of police misconduct even broader than OC and videography, and set up the violators for discplinary procedure under their own lax, protective, disciplinary policies, he calls me a troll, bigot, and ilk.

It's not over when the check clears for my friend....we have some more actions planned. :lol:

Some of it doing with Brady vs. Maryland imagine every ticket, infraction etc, being dismissed because there is proof said cop is a perjurer ......


I agree I am hoping he can see past it, even if he doesn't I hope he stays around because it gives us a good chance to point out the bias and fallacies that are sadly all to often accepted

Something I read on cognitive bias ......http://www.altering-perspectives.com/2013/07/the-12-cognitive-biases-that-prevent.html for some reason it makes me think of the excuses and rational that made the institution of slavery or the horrors of manifest destiny possible.

 

[carolina guy]

There is no law against it, it could be argued that our state preemption could apply and that legally they can't deny you. Yet they do from what I heard of many OC'ers they have been told they can't OC, some have been allowed to CC and one incident I heard of a cop asked the passenger if he knew how to use a firearm, when the affirmative was given he told him there was one in the glove department just in case he needed help (anecdotal but no reason to doubt the guy). {maybe it was his throw down gun.....:uhoh:, J/k}

I and others have had several meeting with the local PD, city attorneys, Sheriffs, prosecutors and others in local government, we have even gotten them to fully admit they were wrong, their actions are wrong, their policy is wrong, like your experience we too have experienced little change.

A lawsuit on my part on which my emphasis wasn't money but training, failed to stop it from happening again to another OC'er, I will say that when it came to OC'ers many have changed how they work simply because the city doesn't want to get sued. Officer Allen Bass assaulted an OC (yes when you have no RAS,PC and have been trained about OC you don't get to point your gun at someone) his boss admitted the stop was illegal but refused to punish for his use of force, and I have a recording where she states she can't second guess her officers actions in the field, this is after she admitted his stop was "illegal". So is Mr. Slodysko who has the pseudo military ranking of Lt. he is the one that pointed his gun at my face it was an almost fight or flight and something that could have been bad, something that lived with me a long time, how I almost got into a firefight with a cop. Again no PC, RS illegal arrest, coercion threats of punishment if I didn't comply to his illegal demands. And then I was arrested when I tried to file a complaint the department circle their wagons around the outsider who was trying to bring the bad actions of one theirs to light. ( I have a video of me being illegally ejected from the police station, our preemption specifically covers the area I was in)

Yep he is still working for the force, after it has been proven he lied on his report, used unlawful force, abused his authority under color of law, I have seen good cops privately express their disdain, but overall there is no bad apple when the barrel is rotten. The only change that has happened is because of lawsuits and catching them in their bad behavior.

+1

PALO seems more than willing to forget that this country had almost NO tradition of a "professional" police force for the 1st 100 years...largely relying on local Sheriff's and the US Marshals working WITH armed local citizens. The traditions of NOT trusting the government, particularly armed portions of the government go back further than the Founding.

So, I guess I would ask him what anyone SHOULD do if it is obvious that you have a non-responsive or even abusive local PD in his "ideal" world?? Why would a police force WANT to make their SOP more detailed than necessary?? Without it, and in PALO's world, they can do what they want and not be held accountable unless they were "trained" properly. Too bad that ordinary citizens don't get that same benefit of the doubt and "training" to know what they can and cannot do.

 

[Citizen]

So, I guess I would ask him what anyone SHOULD do if it is obvious that you have a non-responsive or even abusive local PD in his "ideal" world?? Why would a police force WANT to make their SOP more detailed than necessary?? Without it, and in PALO's world, they can do what they want and not be held accountable unless they were "trained" properly.

Oh, cops do get trained in it. Starting in junior high school--we all do. Government only has the authority its delegated, etc.

Their oath of office covers it where it says, "...swear to uphold the laws of...". Nothing in there about upholding anything not clearly and unquestionably legal.

PALO is a training officer. He can't possibly not know this; his perpetual dodging of this point proves it. His are specious arguments designed to confuse and deflect.

 

[Citizen]

SNIP Something I read on cognitive bias ......http://www.altering-perspectives.com/2013/07/the-12-cognitive-biases-that-prevent.html for some reason it makes me think of the excuses and rational that made the institution of slavery or the horrors of manifest destiny possible.

This isn't directed at you, SVG.

I'm always leery of psychology. That article describes in psuedo-scientific terms what every son-in-law, salesman, and honest priest has understood since the beginning of time. All it did was categorize stuff and assign new names. What a contribution to philosophy. Stop the presses! Notify the Nobel prize committee! Ugh.

In the comments section, I agreed with the poster who mentioned errors in the article. The article set me into high suspicion when very early it said our brains could process a certain huge number (expressed exponentially) of data, but was slow at math. Huh!?!?!