OT- Violent Arrest Last Week

[Ruby]

Ruby, I as not attacking you, promise.

I tend to get off topic, as we were.

Back the the OT, did the guy deserve to be punched in the face multiple times for spitting in the officer's mouth and face, YES! Should the officer have punched the guy, no.

I didn't take it as an attack on me. We all get passionate about things, as I just did in my little rant on social (un)justice.

I disagree, I don't believe he deserved to be punched in the face multiple times for spitting BY ANYONE. Apparently, neither does SPD; the incident is being investigated. He was already restrained, on the ground, and handcuffed. He is being charged with 3rd degree assault. He is mentally ill, although I know the officers didn't know that at the time. Punching him didn't help anyone; certainly not him, the offense had already been committed; certainly didn't help the image of SPD in the communities collective mind. It seems cruel to me to repeatedly hit someone lying helplessly on the ground in front of you. If you are going to be a LEO, it goes with the territory; you will deal with the mentally unstable from time to time. As a LEO, you should understand that you will not be dealing with the upper echelon of society. Don't like it, find another occupation. There have been entirely too many incidents of officers reacting violently to incidents instead of controlling their emotions.

 

[END_THE_FED]

I once saw an episode of COPS where a handcuffed suspect started spitting at the cops. One of the cops walked over, grabbed the bottom of the back of the suspects shirt and lifted it up over his head so that the shirt covered the suspects face.
The cop then said "there you can spit as much as you want now".

I thought it was a pretty good way to handle it.

Though the cop in the OP's story probably shouldn't of reacted the way he did, spitting on someone is assault and should be taken seriously. Way more bacteria, and viruses are found in saliva then people realize. In fact believe it are not, as far as the risk of catching a disease or getting sick is concerned, you are better off having someone urinate on you then spit on you.

 

[palerider116]

Getting spit on is more offensive than getting punched or kicked in my opinion. If someone wants to fight, then that is just a liability of the job. Getting spit on by anybody is vile at its best and downright dangerous at its worst. After awhile, the beat officer gets to know the diseases of some of the frequent fliers in the area. Hep C is a common disease amongst intravenous drug users.

Punching a handcuff suspect multiple times after getting spit on cannot be condoned. However, if I was on a jury for anybody (citizen, LEO, military) accused of the crime of punching someone who spat on them, I would vote "not guilty" without reservation.

There are people who are truly mentally ill, and then there are some that are mentally ill through their own actions. In 2009, there was "bad" marijuana starting to circulate in the area and users with no prior mental problems were having full psychotic episodes. No system can effectively and legally exist to make sure that mentally ill patients are taking the necessary (that is the keyword) medication that won't invade the individual's rights. Medication can be prescribed, prescriptions filled, but if they aren't taken, then they don't work 100% of the time.

Forcing someone to be medicated is unconstitutional, and the risks are borne by a free society.

 

[eye95]

I didn't take it as an attack on me. We all get passionate about things, as I just did in my little rant on social (un)justice.

I disagree, I don't believe he deserved to be punched in the face multiple times for spitting BY ANYONE. Apparently, neither does SPD; the incident is being investigated. He was already restrained, on the ground, and handcuffed. He is being charged with 3rd degree assault. He is mentally ill, although I know the officers didn't know that at the time. Punching him didn't help anyone; certainly not him, the offense had already been committed; certainly didn't help the image of SPD in the communities collective mind. It seems cruel to me to repeatedly hit someone lying helplessly on the ground in front of you. If you are going to be a LEO, it goes with the territory; you will deal with the mentally unstable from time to time. As a LEO, you should understand that you will not be dealing with the upper echelon of society. Don't like it, find another occupation. There have been entirely too many incidents of officers reacting violently to incidents instead of controlling their emotions.

Spitting on someone does deserve a thumping. However, we expect officers to show restraint and act in accordance with departmental policy and not act out of personal motivations.

 

[Grapeshot]

Outside of the spectrum of excessive use of force, wonder how many here would react strongly, immediately and with some force of effort. The goal would be the same as in other self-defense situations I think - to STOP the attack ASAPINS.

 

[Grapeshot]

I once saw an episode of COPS where a handcuffed suspect started spitting at the cops. One of the cops walked over, grabbed the bottom of the back of the suspects shirt and lifted it up over his head so that the shirt covered the suspects face.
The cop then said "there you can spit as much as you want now".

I thought it was a pretty good way to handle it.

Shirt or Jacket pulled over the head can be a moderately effective temporary physical restraint too - limits arm movement considerably.

 

[eye95]

Outside of the spectrum of excessive use of force, wonder how many here would react strongly, immediately and with some force of effort. The goal would be the same as in other self-defense situations I think - to STOP the attack ASAPINS.

By all means, the man should be FORCED not to spit anymore. That, IMO, would most likely involve putting the man on the ground (if is not already prone) and pressing the side of his head to the ground and keeping it there.

 

[Claytron]

Getting spit on is more offensive than getting punched or kicked in my opinion. If someone wants to fight, then that is just a liability of the job. Getting spit on by anybody is vile at its best and downright dangerous at its worst. After awhile, the beat officer gets to know the diseases of some of the frequent fliers in the area. Hep C is a common disease amongst intravenous drug users.

Punching a handcuff suspect multiple times after getting spit on cannot be condoned. However, if I was on a jury for anybody (citizen, LEO, military) accused of the crime of punching someone who spat on them, I would vote "not guilty" without reservation.

There are people who are truly mentally ill, and then there are some that are mentally ill through their own actions. In 2009, there was "bad" marijuana starting to circulate in the area and users with no prior mental problems were having full psychotic episodes. No system can effectively and legally exist to make sure that mentally ill patients are taking the necessary (that is the keyword) medication that won't invade the individual's rights. Medication can be prescribed, prescriptions filled, but if they aren't taken, then they don't work 100% of the time.

Forcing someone to be medicated is unconstitutional, and the risks are borne by a free society.

I find it interesting that you say that punching a handcuffed suspect can never be condoned but at the same time you say you would consider him "not guilty" if you could...why? If you can admit he did something wrong then why not have him punished? I wonder how many people actually HAVE entered in Not Guilty for a cop or other person they knew did something wrong, makes you wonder if that might have anything to do with all the bad cops around these days.


also do you have a cite for that tidbit about marijuana? I have an extremely hard time believing "bad marijuana" caused sudden psychotic episodes.

 

[Grapeshot]

also do you have a cite for that tidbit about marijuana? I have an extremely hard time believing "bad marijuana" caused sudden psychotic episodes.

Just one quick reference - there are many others.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lacing_(drugs)

 

[palerider116]

I find it interesting that you say that punching a handcuffed suspect can never be condoned but at the same time you say you would consider him "not guilty" if you could...why? If you can admit he did something wrong then why not have him punished? I wonder how many people actually HAVE entered in Not Guilty for a cop or other person they knew did something wrong, makes you wonder if that might have anything to do with all the bad cops around these days.


also do you have a cite for that tidbit about marijuana? I have an extremely hard time believing "bad marijuana" caused sudden psychotic episodes.

First, the marijuana - sat with my fair share of marijuana users having psychotic episodes at the local hospital. I speak from experience that I cannot relate through a citation.

Second, I can't condone someone beating on someone handcuffed. Mitigating facts may exist, i.e. the "victim" was really the provocateur by spitting in someone's face. It doesn't matter who was accused of the crime, I would cast a "NOT GUILTY" vote for that person. There are instances where the affront is so egregious, that a strong reaction comes as a direct result of it. Can it be condoned? No. Can it be understood within the context of the situation? Yes. Should anyone and everyone (And I mean anyone) go to jail for reacting violently because someone spat in the face? Depending on the injuries, not necessarily.

I think if the roles were different, this would be justified by mass consensus.

 

[Claytron]

First, the marijuana - sat with my fair share of marijuana users having psychotic episodes at the local hospital. I speak from experience that I cannot relate through a citation.

Second, I can't condone someone beating on someone handcuffed. Mitigating facts may exist, i.e. the "victim" was really the provocateur by spitting in someone's face. It doesn't matter who was accused of the crime, I would cast a "NOT GUILTY" vote for that person. There are instances where the affront is so egregious, that a strong reaction comes as a direct result of it. Can it be condoned? No. Can it be understood within the context of the situation? Yes. Should anyone and everyone (And I mean anyone) go to jail for reacting violently because someone spat in the face? Depending on the injuries, not necessarily.

I think if the roles were different, this would be justified by mass consensus.

well this isnt a marijuana forum or thread so i guess i wont keep going off topic but i just cant see people having psychotic episodes from just marijuana and as someone who feels that marijuana is always put in a way worse light than it needs to be I just hate seeing people say things like that.

but back on topic.. saying that anyone would want to punch someone in the face after getting spit on isnt really the issue, the issue is the guy being a cop and having been trained on how to deal with situations like this, should have known better. So you are saying you wouldnt condone it because you wouldnt want to be politically incorrect, but still think its ok to do "off the record" so to speak?

Id want to punch someone in the face if they spit on but i know that its not the right response, unless they are continuing to spit on you and you cannot get away, then you are entitled to defend yourself, if someone spits on you and then runs away, tracking them down and beating them is as bad or worse than what they did to you.

saying you would give someone a free pass even though you know they did something wrong and violent seems like a really, REALLY bad idea...... give a guy a free pass after he beats the **** out of a bound person just for spitting on him... how long until hes beating people just because they talk back? They dont have the right to beat people for almost no reason, we shouldnt encourage them imo.

 

[rodbender]

well this isnt a marijuana forum or thread so i guess i wont keep going off topic but i just cant see people having psychotic episodes from just marijuana and as someone who feels that marijuana is always put in a way worse light than it needs to be I just hate seeing people say things like that.

It was probably laced with something else. COMMENTS REMOVED BY ADMINISTRATOR: For the poster's benefit.

 

[Ruby]

By all means, the man should be FORCED not to spit anymore. That, IMO, would most likely involve putting the man on the ground (if is not already prone) and pressing the side of his head to the ground and keeping it there.

The police these days have "spit socks" that they place over the person's head, which they did end up using on this guy.


........--Moderator Note--
Actually the entire thread is more than a little OT
Not even a little related to OC, RKBA and fortunately did not go to LEO bashing.
It is time to move on, this has run its course.