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OT: IRS is buying shotguns

Ajetpilot

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A point that may have been missed, but was noted by Dave Workman in his article here http://tinyurl.com/y8dpayf is this:



Fitted with 14-inch barrels (that’s 4-inches shorter than the legal minimum length for a shotgun owned by a private citizen without a special license; Washington residents can't have one because it's classified as a short barreled shotgun, and they're illegal under state statute), these are what one might call “wallpaper guns.” Shoot someone with one of these, and you’re going to turn him into wallpaper.

Since the IRS feels that they need these weapons to protect themselves, why can't LAC possess the same? Are we and our families not worth the protection these weapons can provide?
 

kwiebe

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Good point. IMO, this is another example of an opportunity for a state to tell the Federal govt (which the states created), to go to hell. The relationship is backwards.
 

kwiebe

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HankT wrote:
erps wrote:
I like Dave's writing. I'm a little surprised by his position on this one. The IRS has got to me one of the most hated agencies in the government. It would be intersting to conduct a poll here to see how many people would like to vote for a ban on the IRS enforcement department having firearms. Isn't that kind of ironic. A group of people here working on a gun ban?

That's a splendid point.

The real truth is that everybody loves gun control of some form or other. We don't like government or police or the general public doing anything to control OUR guns.

But we don't really, ahem,mind controlling those of some subgroup out there that we deem unworthy. Or, simply, a group we just don't like, based on affiliation, job, socio-economic class, race, etc.

It's really interesting that we can do that.
This is not a parallel argument with what is being discussed.

I only want to control the power the govt has over the people. You know, making them follow the Constitution and all that 18th century stuff.
 

erps

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I only want to control the power the govt has over the people. You know, making them follow the Constitution and all that 18th century stuff.

They're not following the constitution by making this purchase?
 

Lante

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They do this every few years....
...here is one from 1998...


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kenshin

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This has to be one of the most civil and polite disagreements on OCDO I've ever seen. +1 to both svg and erps for expressing their different views without resorting to any insults or name calling.
 

Nathan9493

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I can just envision it now...

Thick dark Glasses...check
Black sport coat...check
Black Gov't issue tie...check
Black high water slacks...check
white socks and black shoes...check
pocket protector...check
Calculator...check
Handgun with extra mags...check


The look on your face when they show up to collect...PRICELESS:what:
 

Capn Camo

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check out the Dept of Agriculture carrying MACHINE GUNS. DOnt ask how I know.
 

Washintonian_For_Liberty

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compmanio365 wrote:
erps wrote:
so, ban the IRS from possessing firearms then? How 'bout park rangers next, and then weight scale cops and then and then and then. Common ground with the Bradey Bunch perhaps?



BTW, the article indicates these shotguns are compatible with others already in their inventory.
are designated as the only shotguns authorized for IRS duty based on compatibility with IRS existing shotgun inventory,
The 2nd Amendment is a right enumerated for the citizen, not the government or it's representatives. When those people are not representing the government, they have every right that you and I have as everyday citizens. When they are on the clock and being paid as a federal employee, they can and should be extremely restricted on the amount of force they can bring to bear against your everyday Joe.....namely because your everyday Joe can and should be better armed than the government goons. That's the very idea behind the RTKBA.....

+1,000,000

And we've already seen people killed over tax violations.... Waco was ALL about taxes... its how they got warrants... the BATFE are Tax police.... so is the FBI... the Feds have been operating outside the Constitution now for over 100 years... and unless we take this Republic back.... we can't complain because its our fault for letting the Fed become the Tyranny it has become.
 

sudden valley gunner

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erps wrote:
And we've already seen people killed over tax violations.... Waco was ALL about taxes... its how they got warrants.
Here is a link to the Waco search warrant and affidavit for the warrant. All about taxes? I would be interested in reading your source.



http://www.jaedworks.com/shoebox/waco.html
From Wiki:

National firearms act of 1934

The purpose of the 1934 National Firearms Act was to regulate what were considered "gangster weapons" such as machine guns and hand grenades. Then U.S. Attorney General Homer S. Cummings recognized that firearms could not be banned outright under the Second Amendment, so he proposed restrictive regulation in the form of a high tax and federal registration. Originally, pistols and revolvers were to be regulated as strictly as machine guns; towards that end, cutting down a rifle or shotgun to circumvent the handgun restrictions by making a concealable weapon was taxed as strictly as a machine gun.
 

erps

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Thanks for that link. That gives me a whole new perspective.
 

Washintonian_For_Liberty

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sudden valley gunner wrote:
erps wrote:
And we've already seen people killed over tax violations.... Waco was ALL about taxes... its how they got warrants.
Here is a link to the Waco search warrant and affidavit for the warrant. All about taxes? I would be interested in reading your source.



http://www.jaedworks.com/shoebox/waco.html
From Wiki:

National firearms act of 1934

The purpose of the 1934 National Firearms Act was to regulate what were considered "gangster weapons" such as machine guns and hand grenades. Then U.S. Attorney General Homer S. Cummings recognized that firearms could not be banned outright under the Second Amendment, so he proposed restrictive regulation in the form of a high tax and federal registration. Originally, pistols and revolvers were to be regulated as strictly as machine guns; towards that end, cutting down a rifle or shotgun to circumvent the handgun restrictions by making a concealable weapon was taxed as strictly as a machine gun.
Thank you SVG... so, does that answer your query erps? All Federal LEOs are tax enforcers...that's it. Tyrannical tax enforcers.... and I must say, they are wholly unconstitutional... but until we can take over the government and start dissolving these agencies, they will only become more and more tyrannical and oppressive.
 

Wheelgunner

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There are several good books addressing this issue, erps. Basiclly the argument is that the more "police power" disparit agencies gather to themselves, the more they become the very definition of Jackbooted thugs.

A perfect example is the BATF, a tax agency that is supposed to make sure the little tax stamp is affixed to your cigarette pack, that personal brewers only make less than 100 gal per year and that those that own full auto weapons have a sheet of paper with the Tax stamp affixed to the description of the weapon along with its serial number. Their entire mandate is the Gun Control Act of 1934, most of which is illegal under the Heller decision.

Operation "ShowTime", the raid on the Waco Texas compound of the Branch Dravidian was a culmination of Abuses the BATF had been ringing up. Men sent to jail because a stick of wood was too short or because a number was wrong on a Federal Form, men shot in the head on false information given by an informant. Given these Abuses, Congress was going to snap them back by reducing their funding, so this was to be a big bust to bolster their funding. In the case of Waco, the Dravidian's were supposedly hoarding full Auto weapons (a charge that was later disavowed and dropped by the BATF).

Please note that the charges were not that they Fired the weapons, merely that they possessed them, which is not contrary to Texas law. Their contention was that they had not paid the $200 TAX on the transfer, that they did not have a piece of paper with the TAX stamp affixed to it. If the Dravidians had whipped these documents out, the BATF raid would have ended right there.


Three trailer loads of Agents in black Ninja suits and HK's stormed the compound of the branch Dravidians, throwing flashbangs and screaming and precipitated a fiasco that left 4 agents dead and several wounded (Most from their own weapons!) and a stand off that lasted till the compound burned to the ground and 93 Americans burned up in that fire.

If the IRS seizes assets by Judicial lien, the local sheriff can put a lock on the door. If the IRS wants to examine records, it can have the FBI cart off the records and Laptops. If the IRS wants to accuse me of Tax Evasion, then it can speak to my lawyer. Since they can't even answer simple questions about even their own tax code which has reached beyond human understanding, I think it insane to allow them to point a shotgun at the head of a citizen over what may well be a misunderstanding or a point of tax law.

Arming Federal agencies not in the regular business of hunting down violent criminals is the construction of a police state and should not be tolerated in a free society.

Erps, a good book you should read is "Unintended Consequences" by John Ross dealing with this very subject.
 
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