• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Open Carry in the Detroit Area?

Tiribulus

Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2021
Messages
40
One more for now. I'll find the videos as soon as I can.
==================================
Scoop;3296136 said:
First, I don't believe anyone would advocate being a prick. There is a marked difference between being an a-hole and standing up for your Constitutionally-protected, God-given right. LE doesn't have the right to force you to give up your rights because THEY want to be pricks, either. When they KNOW they are doing it, and when you calmly but respectfully make them aware that you are fully aware of your rights, they will back down 99% of the time. And FWIW, I'm former LE.

Ok, but I've seen a couple dozen of these open carry walks now and in the vast majority of cases the gun owner was rude and dismissive at best, or downright scornful and "prick"-ish at worst. And everything in between.

In the one instance where somebody (a woman) handled it pretty close, but not exactly the way I would have, she was excoriated in the comments by people basically telling her to tell the cops to *** off.

I want to be known to the police as one guy in their jurisdiction that they will never have any problem with whatsoever. If there were dozens like that, think of the conversations these officers could have at family gatherings when 2A people are being blasted by their leftist relatives.

"Yeah well all I know is the folks carrying guns where I work are my favorite citizens. NOTHING like you are making them out to be"
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,638
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Well, I guess my idea of an organized open carry walk is much different than your idea of an organized open carry walk. All my involvements with organized open carry walks were coordinated with the police before the organized open carry walk even took place.

Where the problem usually happens is when police hostility exists from the very inception of organizing the open carry walk.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,124
Location
here nc
The last thing I came back here for was more controversy with you my friend. Keeping that in mind, I have watched alot of open carry walk youtube videos and I really believe that most of these guys are shooting themselves in the foot (pun?) by the way they treat the police. This NOT aimed at you because I have no idea if you even participate in 2A walks.

I must admit that your quoted comment above did remind me of that though.

That's something I would be very interested in talking about. How to best acclimate the police and private citizens to the presence of firearms held by other peacable law abiding citizens.
I have actively participated in several OC walks where the nice LEs singled me out and clandestinely filmed my participation in and during the entire walk. When confronted, I walked away from the savant which truly irritated the individual and the Chief apologized to the walk's organizer!

the walks are extremely coordinated
 
Last edited:

Tiribulus

Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2021
Messages
40
Will, I guess my idea of an organized open carry walk is much different than your idea of an organized open carry walk. All my involvements with organized open carry walks were coordinated with the police before the organized open carry walk even took place.

Where the problem usually happens is when police hostility exists from the very inception of organizing the open carry walk.
Like I told that fella, I've watched a couple dozen open carry walk videos and none that I can remember showed any indication of pre-involvement with the local police. Most were groups of 5 or more, and sometimes they had coms and were talking to another group in a different part of the area.

In every video I saw, the police showed up when called and were taken aback by the presence of these people when they arrived. Clearly they had no idea beforehand and in some cases the police were total jackasses. We should be better.

Until you just said it, I had never even thought of notifying them beforehand. THAT is a great idea.
 

BB62

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
4,038
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
"...I don't think a confrontational, adversarial attitude with the police gets us anywhere. ..."

(I just quoted a portion so I didn't feel compelled to respond to your entire post)

For the most part, I completely agree. There are times when I've OCed in purposely adversarial circumstances, but it really ticks me off when I see YouTube idiots acting like "I'm THE MAN because I just put some police officer in his place in a totally obnoxious manner! I deserve serious plaudits for smiting the bully with a badge! I'm so cool I can hardly contain myself!", etc. etc.

Feeling superior because one has acted like the biggest a$$hole around is immature, childish, and counterproductive.

A wise man, now gone, told me years ago that with regard to firearms, rights, laws, etc. that it wasn't necessary to bring someone over to your side, but that if you could at least get somebody to engage with you, or be neutral, it was a far better place for us gun owners to be in - given the ongoing assaults on what we cherish from so many and so many angles.

The subject of police officers supporting us is so big and broad that I don't want to engage in a marathon typing-fest, but I will say that with regard to political support, at least in the state of Ohio, the entity that **supposedly** represents lots of cops (can't think of the name) is constantly against CCW law improvements - yet the "leadership" of the organization has never polled the cops it supposedly represents.
 
Last edited:

BB62

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
4,038
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
... Ok, but I've seen a couple dozen of these open carry walks now and in the vast majority of cases the gun owner was rude and dismissive at best, or downright scornful and "prick"-ish at worst. And everything in between. ...

I think you and at least a couple of other posters (solus & color of law) are thinking about/referring to different things when you use the term "walk" (or "Walk") - hence the difference of opinion.

I seriously doubt you were thinking of this kind of OCing when you said "walk": https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/dec/6/pro-gun-activists-host-open-carry-rally-at-osu-in-/
 
Last edited:

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,124
Location
here nc
One more for now. I'll find the videos as soon as I can.
==================================
Scoop;3296136 said:
First, I don't believe anyone would advocate being a prick. There is a marked difference between being an a-hole and standing up for your Constitutionally-protected, God-given right. LE doesn't have the right to force you to give up your rights because THEY want to be pricks, either. When they KNOW they are doing it, and when you calmly but respectfully make them aware that you are fully aware of your rights, they will back down 99% of the time. And FWIW, I'm former LE.


snippp...
Greg,
who is scoop.3296136... as there is no "scoop" listed as an OCDC forum member!

where did you copy their post from... is "scoop" talking about LG or HANDGUNS being OC ?

how olde is that post...

kinda/sorta bad form to take someone's post from another forum/FB/ad nauseam internet site and plop it here with absolutely no contextual insight to provide providence the subject material is germane to the discussion...especially with the inappropriate works that was used...

Ps...

"Yeah well all I know is the folks carrying guns where I work are my favorite citizens. NOTHING like you are making them out to be"

is this part of scoop's outta context post as well or from someone off of some other mythological internet place and time?
 
Last edited:

Tiribulus

Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2021
Messages
40
@BB62

Let's do it this way if you don't mind. THIS is one of the searches I did.

I'd be interested in yours and others impressions of what they see.
 

Tiribulus

Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2021
Messages
40
sorry, i failed to discern where any forum member called you a "LIAR" in this thread?
Some guy bearing a striking resemblance to yourself and using your name ALLEGED that there was no evidence for my assertion regarding the Wayne County Michigan clerk's office being suspiciously backed up for months on CPL applications. The clear implication is that I was making it up. People who make stuff up are liars :) If I misunderstood you, I will stand most happily corrected.

Greg,
who is scoop.3296136...
No idea. An anonymous web handle on a screen. Now that I've posted his words here, which he himself publicly posted in a conversation very similar to this one, do you know who he is or how he has been in any way harmed by my quoting him in a neutral and non-critical manner?

His quote was included in my response in that conversation and thinking that it would be helpful in understanding my own quote from there, I included it. A simple copy and paste from the editor there.

That conversation is from the same time I started this one here. (Why am I doing this to myself? :) )
"Yeah well all I know is the folks carrying guns where I work are my favorite citizens. NOTHING like you are making them out to be"

is this part of scoop's outta context post as well or from someone off of some other mythological internet place and time?
That is my hypothetical quote attributed to a hypothetical police officer in a hypothetical conversation with hypothetical family members at a hypothetical family gathering. You are the very first person who has told me that they did not understand this.
Further, i am astonished you would post these documents on this open forum...but to each their own...
I'd have you note that all potentially sensitive sections have been digitally blurred for my protection.

Just a general observation from experience? ! find life to be much more enjoyable when not going outta my way to find reasons to have conflict with people for no intelligible purpose.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,124
Location
here nc
@BB62

Let's do it this way if you don't mind. THIS is one of the searches I did.

I'd be interested in yours and others impressions of what they see.
first and foremost the youtube shock and awe vids are seven years olde...

second, it is a a shock and awe spit in the eye 'gathering' to revenge what they believe was mistreatment "RAILROADED" by the LE...

Third, they are giving legal advice and disagreeing amongst themselves on what the MI statutes actually state...

fourth, really...if you have reviewed this forum you should know these type of created shock & awe videos are trashed as not being reality and summarily dismissed as negative attention...

fifth, i don't care.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,124
Location
here nc
1. Some guy bearing a striking resemblance to yourself and using your name ALLEGED that there was no evidence for my assertion regarding the Wayne County Michigan clerk's office being suspiciously backed up for months on CPL applications. The clear implication is that I was making it up. People who make stuff up are liars :) If I misunderstood you, I will stand most happily corrected.


2. No idea. An anonymous web handle on a screen. Now that I've posted his words here, which he himself publicly posted in a conversation very similar to this one, do you know who he is or how he has been in any way harmed by my quoting him in a neutral and non-critical manner?

His quote was included in my response in that conversation and thinking that it would be helpful in understanding my own quote from there, I included it. A simple copy and paste from the editor there.

That conversation is from the same time I started this one here. (Why am I doing this to myself? :) )

3..That is my hypothetical quote attributed to a hypothetical police officer in a hypothetical conversation with hypothetical family members at a hypothetical family gathering. You are the very first person who has told me that they did not understand this.

4. I'd have you note that all potentially sensitive sections have been digitally blurred for my protection.

5. Just a general observation from experience? ! find life to be much more enjoyable when not going outta my way to find reasons to have conflict with people for no intelligible purpose.
So greg,
(1) you have called me out for something you have no evidence of something i didn't do, just so you can get a negative ego boost...truly not even a viable effort mate. also violating forum rule (16).

(2). Quote:
When you are adding images, videos and other content that you did not create to your presentation, it is important to make sure that you are not violating anyone's copyright.

Note: Even if a work that you use is in the public domain, it is advisable to provide attribution for the work or, at a minimum, keep a record of the attribution of the work, so that you or other interested parties can find it later if necessary. unquote

now w/o any type of ability for anybody to locate the contextual information you posted it is considered bogus, worthless, and against copy right standards.

(3) must have missed the background to your misstatement you might attribute to a LE...again bogus & worthless to this discussion.

(4) doesn't diminish the absurdity of your behaviour you go to boost your self perception out here, let's see firearm, target - shot at seven yards, and now your MI privilage permit payment...wait a moment i see your ego swell a smidge just being called out about it...

(5) now a flimsy attempt of degrading my character with elementry playground taunts...
 

BB62

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
4,038
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
@BB62

Let's do it this way if you don't mind. THIS is one of the searches I did.

I'd be interested in yours and others impressions of what they see.

Yeah, so what's your point? I've already made it clear that we are apparently in agreement about various YouTube a##holes, etc. See the quote of my post below:

"For the most part, I completely agree. There are times when I've OCed in purposely adversarial circumstances, but it really ticks me off when I see YouTube idiots acting like "I'm THE MAN because I just put some police officer in his place in a totally obnoxious manner! I deserve serious plaudits for smiting the bully with a badge! I'm so cool I can hardly contain myself!", etc. etc."

We seem to agree that jerks who OC don't help "us" or the image of "us" - either as gun owners or OCers.

Clearly we can both cite/link to examples of OCers behaving like jerks to cops/the public, and others where they are not. The link you provided has examples of both. I particularly like the videos where people engage in conversation, whether they agree or not, with the OCers. Sometimes changed minds or education results. Great stuff.

In addition, what is rarely recorded is people OCing in their everyday activities - which is the bulk of OC activity.

Again, what's your point? I'm sure if one looks on YouTube one can find men/women/blacks/whites/conservatives/liberals, etc. behaving badly, and those that are not. So?

IF what you are suggesting is that OC/OCers are portrayed negatively by what you see on YouTube, my answer is "It depends".

All I can suggest is that if you want to OC by yourself or with others, do it in such a way and conduct yourself in such a manner that you're an ambassador - not an a$$hole. If you're bothered by the portrayal of OC evidenced by some of the apparently narcissistic jerks on YouTube, make some of your own and post them for balance.
 

Tiribulus

Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2021
Messages
40
first and foremost the youtube shock and awe vids are seven years olde...

second, it is a a shock and awe spit in the eye 'gathering' to revenge what they believe was mistreatment "RAILROADED" by the LE...

Third, they are giving legal advice and disagreeing amongst themselves on what the MI statutes actually state...

fourth, really...if you have reviewed this forum you should know these type of created shock & awe videos are trashed as not being reality and summarily dismissed as negative attention...

fifth, i don't care.
Thank you. If you would point me to some threads on this site where these types of issues have been discussed, I would greatly appreciate it. Yes, I can search them out myself, but you having been here a lot longer than I have, might have some specific ones in mind. That's an honest request. Not a demand.
 

Tiribulus

Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2021
Messages
40
For the most part, I completely agree. There are times when I've OCed in purposely adversarial circumstances, but it really ticks me off when I see YouTube idiots acting like "I'm THE MAN because I just put some police officer in his place in a totally obnoxious manner! I deserve serious plaudits for smiting the bully with a badge! I'm so cool I can hardly contain myself!", etc. etc.
Yes, amen. We should in my view be trying to persuade and positively influence them. Not defeat them.

I'll see if I can find this one video which was not in Michigan. There was one guy who went nose to nose with some cops for about a half hour over the fact that his AR did not have to be unloaded for him to carry it.

The police insisted it did and he stood firm saying that according to the law, no it did not. It got heated, but not TOO heated.

The short version is, the policeman doing most of the talking called it in and after a little while came back from his car and rather contritely and politely told this kid:

"Well it appears we stand corrected. (his words, the cop actually said that) You are within the law to carry this weapon loaded."

Now that's beautiful. A perfect opportunity for a handshake and a short productive conversation. This guy wasn't that bad, but instead of taking that opportunity he just kinda walked off in a huff. This is just plain not wise.
In addition, what is rarely recorded is people OCing in their everyday activities - which is the bulk of OC activity.
There really is this. The trouble there is that by definition everyday life is not normally recorded. It's everyday life. As soon somebody begins recording an encounter with the police, it puts them on the defensive, at least in many cases, and at that point moves from everyday life to an OC demonstration.

This may sound like a dumb question, but are there any national OC organizations? Meaning where accepted guidelines for stuff like this are spelled out for instance?

I mean it seems to me that if there were an agreed upon set of productive guidelines, complete with measures for confrontation with the police, a lot more could be accomplished than by these autonomous groups. Even at the state level.

If there already is, are these small neighborhood groups just refusing to ally themselves? All honest, albeit maybe ignorant questions.
 

Tiribulus

Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2021
Messages
40
A wise man, now gone, told me years ago that with regard to firearms, rights, laws, etc. that it wasn't necessary to bring someone over to your side, but that if you could at least get somebody to engage with you, or be neutral, it was a far better place for us gun owners to be in - given the ongoing assaults on what we cherish from so many and so many angles.
Exactly.
I am surrounded by liberals here. Including a large number of black ones. They really do believe whatever they see on CNN. As in like really. That's reality for them and almost their whole close personal experience with guns is with their criminal use. Black on black violence, which btw is still the fault of oppressive white supremacy that keeps them in bondage to ghetto poverty and squalor. That's what most of them believe.

Their view of 2A "gun people" is that they're all fragile, angry white, trigger happy wannabe tough guys. They greatly oppose the police except when the police are against us. We have to demonstrate that they are wrong and being told wrong.

It sounds like you and I are pretty much on the same page.
 
Last edited:

Tiribulus

Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2021
Messages
40
@solus
What's your favorite open carry gun and holster? That's not a trick question. I'm honestly just curious.
 

BB62

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
4,038
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Exactly.
I am surrounded by liberals here. Including a large number of black ones. They really do believe whatever they see on CNN. As in like really. That's reality for them and almost their whole close personal experience with guns is with their criminal use. Black on black violence, which btw is still the fault of oppressive white supremacy that keeps them in bondage to ghetto poverty and squalor. That's what most of them believe.

Their view of 2A "gun people" is that they're all fragile, angry white, trigger happy wannabe tough guys. They greatly oppose the police except when the police are against us. We have to demonstrate that they are wrong and being told wrong.

It sounds like you and I are pretty much on the same page.

OH! OH!

You've hit on one of my favorite subjects - black gun owners and OC by blacks (& women)!

Direct link: www.facebook.com/jeffry.smith.35/posts/10156778755147509

You may want to read this/share it:
>> Ohio's first *ALL-BLACK* campus OC event <<

Well, first you should know that the private FB event "OSU Open Carry Event - BLACKOUT", as it was named by organizers Kendall Arroyo, Princess Kuevor, and Dominic McDonald, was a rousing success!

Although small in terms of the number of participants, it was HUGE in terms of the dialogue generated. It was stunning to see so many students (and some faculty, I think) gathered around and participating in both pro and con dialogue with each other and the open carriers on OSU's Oval.

Some background: when I started these Walks in 2014 (with the goal of promoting campus carry and dialogue on the subject of guns rights & privileges), they were for the most part composed of white males. Over time that changed and more women attended. It took a couple of years, but Dakota Marvin, Kendall, and his friend Dominic McDonald broke the color barrier in 2016 at the Miami University Walk. (meanwhile, Princess had organized an event at the Statehouse in support of "stand your ground" legislation)

During those two years and afterward, I and others kept hearing or reading comments by anti-gun people/liberals to the effect of "I'll bet a bunch that a bunch of black people couldn't do that!". I got *real* tired of hearing it.

But, as I've also found in conversations with members of the LGBT community, when the subject is the RKBA, there's a LOT of overt and covert discrimination against those who dare to break out of the groupthink boxes constructed by many of those who are allegedly tolerant and "open minded".

I think Kendall became "woke" to the matter also, in part because of his personal experiences on multiple occasions, and partly because of racist opinions like those expressed by some OSU professors in the wake of my December 2016 Walk there.
He ultimately decided to do something about it - co-planning and advertising the event, and even powering through being called an "Uncle Tom" (etc.) by members of a black gun group!

Yesterday's golden achievement was the culmination of his, Princess' and Dominic's efforts.
I salute them and the other barrier-breaking participants of yesterday's event, and look forward to seeing them again at future outreach endeavors or gun rights events!

Student newspaper article: https://www.thelantern.com/2018/09/...e-promotes-conversation-around-guns-on-campus
 
Top