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open carry exposure

DKSuddeth

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Maybe if we did a few of these, we'd find out just how gun friendly texas really is by either prohibiting open carry of long guns or decriminalizing handgun open carry.
 

Ian

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I'm sure we'd all have a real fun time in jail for some Disorderly Conduct BS charge :)
 

DKSuddeth

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would that not achieve the desired results that Mr. Krause in wisconsin so bravely fought? or that Ohio achieved with their open carry walks?

Or is TX the one state of the union that provides for DC of DTP convictions for constitutional acts/legal acts?
 

david.ross

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Someone pay for my plane ticket, I'll gladly OC a long gun. :) "Well sir, if you want me to carry a weapon which isn't a long gun, you better speak about your legislators about decriminalizing open carry of a firearm."
 

SA-TX

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DKSuddeth wrote:
would that not achieve the desired results that Mr. Krause in wisconsin so bravely fought? or that Ohio achieved with their open carry walks?

Or is TX the one state of the union that provides for DC of DTP convictions for constitutional acts/legal acts?

DK, I'm not sure that would get the positive publicity we seek. Many long guns look scary. If you think a soccer mom gets upset when seeing a holstered handgun, just wait until there a group carrying ARs, AKs, etc. :banghead:

IANAL and I know that, in general, carrying a long gun is legal in Texas, but there could be some snags besides DS. For example, cities and counties can still regulate the carrying of firearms in parks, but apparently not for CHL holders even if they aren't carrying concealed via their license (see below). That could be debated however.

If you really want to do something like this, may I suggest pre-1899 carry? That has a few advantages:

1) People won't be seeing "assault weapons". :shock:

2) According to the definition of "firearm" in the Penal Code (at 40.01(3)), a pre-1899 handgun is NOT a firearm and thus not a handgun for the purposes of UCW or Unlawful Carry by a License Holder.

3) Federal law is also on your side as pre-1899 guns are antiques and as such not subject to the usual restrictions. The fact that federal and state law agree on this add strength to the argument that you weren't carrying a gun in the eyes of the law.

For all of the above reasons, if you were charged with disorderly conduct or UCW or UCBLH, I think you would stand a much better chance of winning than handling a rifle. The mere act of handling it could make DC easier to prove whereas a holstered "non-firearm" would be much more difficult.

Having said all of the above, I would recommend discussing any such plan with an attorney who has great experience with the firearms laws of Texas. You'd also want video tape rolling so that you could show in court how your peaceful picnic where people just happen to be openly carrying pre-1899 handguns was in no way DC or threatening to anyone. I would also have your attorney present at the gathering. Maybe even have members of the press there, if they would attend. If local TV cameras wereactive I suspect it would lesson the chances of law enforcement arresting anyone without good cause. In addition, if they didn't find some negative aspect to the story, hopefully viewers would see that openly carried firearms didn't cause any problems and they would re-evaluate their opinions on open carry. There is also the possibility that the news would slant it as "can you believe this is legal!" and urge people to call their legislators and have them change the law. :cuss:

Local Government Code

Sec.229.001.FIREARMS; EXPLOSIVES. (a)A municipality may not adopt regulations relating to the transfer, private ownership, keeping, transportation, licensing, or registration of firearms, ammunition, or firearm supplies.

(b)Subsection (a) does not affect the authority a municipality has under another law to:

(6)regulate the carrying of a firearm by a person other than a person licensed to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, at a:

(A)public park;

(B)public meeting of a municipality, county, or other governmental body;

(C)political rally, parade, or official political meeting; or

(D)nonfirearms-related school, college, or professional athletic event.

(c)The exception provided by Subsection (b)(6) does not apply if the firearm is in or is carried to or from an area designated for use in a lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting event and the firearm is of the type commonly used in the activity.
 

Ian

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SA-TX wrote:
DKSuddeth wrote:
would that not achieve the desired results that Mr. Krause in wisconsin so bravely fought? or that Ohio achieved with their open carry walks?

Or is TX the one state of the union that provides for DC of DTP convictions for constitutional acts/legal acts?

DK, I'm not sure that would get the positive publicity we seek. Many long guns look scary. If you think a soccer mom gets upset when seeing a holstered handgun, just wait until there a group carrying ARs, AKs, etc. :banghead:

IANAL and I know that, in general, carrying a long gun is legal in Texas, but there could be some snags besides DS. For example, cities and counties can still regulate the carrying of firearms in parks, but apparently not for CHL holders even if they aren't carrying concealed via their license (see below). That could be debated however.

If you really want to do something like this, may I suggest pre-1899 carry? That has a few advantages:

1) People won't be seeing "assault weapons". :shock:

2) According to the definition of "firearm" in the Penal Code (at 40.01(3)), a pre-1899 handgun is NOT a firearm and thus not a handgun for the purposes of UCW or Unlawful Carry by a License Holder.

3) Federal law is also on your side as pre-1899 guns are antiques and as such not subject to the usual restrictions. The fact that federal and state law agree on this add strength to the argument that you weren't carrying a gun in the eyes of the law.

For all of the above reasons, if you were charged with disorderly conduct or UCW or UCBLH, I think you would stand a much better chance of winning than handling a rifle. The mere act of handling it could make DC easier to prove whereas a holstered "non-firearm" would be much more difficult.

Having said all of the above, I would recommend discussing any such plan with an attorney who has great experience with the firearms laws of Texas. You'd also want video tape rolling so that you could show in court how your peaceful picnic where people just happen to be openly carrying pre-1899 handguns was in no way DC or threatening to anyone. I would also have your attorney present at the gathering. Maybe even have members of the press there, if they would attend. If local TV cameras wereactive I suspect it would lesson the chances of law enforcement arresting anyone without good cause. In addition, if they didn't find some negative aspect to the story, hopefully viewers would see that openly carried firearms didn't cause any problems and they would re-evaluate their opinions on open carry. There is also the possibility that the news would slant it as "can you believe this is legal!" and urge people to call their legislators and have them change the law. :cuss:

Local Government Code

Sec.229.001.FIREARMS; EXPLOSIVES. (a)A municipality may not adopt regulations relating to the transfer, private ownership, keeping, transportation, licensing, or registration of firearms, ammunition, or firearm supplies.

(b)Subsection (a) does not affect the authority a municipality has under another law to:

(6)regulate the carrying of a firearm by a person other than a person licensed to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, at a:

(A)public park;

(B)public meeting of a municipality, county, or other governmental body;

(C)political rally, parade, or official political meeting; or

(D)nonfirearms-related school, college, or professional athletic event.

(c)The exception provided by Subsection (b)(6) does not apply if the firearm is in or is carried to or from an area designated for use in a lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting event and the firearm is of the type commonly used in the activity.
Do you have a lot of pre-1899 handguns we could all use? I know I don't. ;)
 

SA-TX

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Ianmtx wrote:
Do you have a lot of pre-1899 handguns we could all use? I know I don't. ;)
I have one for me. Go buy one. They are relatively cheap and you don't need to fill out any BATFE paperwork, can buy interstate, via mail, etc. Very convenient. :dude:
 

Ian

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Messages
710
Location
Austin, TX
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SA-TX wrote:
Ianmtx wrote:
Do you have a lot of pre-1899 handguns we could all use? I know I don't. ;)
I have one for me. Go buy one. They are relatively cheap and you don't need to fill out any BATFE paperwork, can buy interstate, via mail, etc. Very convenient. :dude:
I found one on Gunbroker for around $150, I'll bid on it. ;)
 

CrossFire

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Nov 29, 2007
Messages
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Irving, Texas, USA
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I found this on another thread and thought better be posted here. I think this needs to acted on swiftly.:celebrate

Sen. Dan Patrick's legislative aid said she would be more then happy to look over some of the details of the bill and present it to him, as "he is a large supporter of gun rights". She wants me to send her details on the bill... I am not sure what points and info you would think best to include to maybe help make this happen so here is the email she said to send the information to: kate.tigg@senate.state.tx.us

I would do this myself, but I am sure there are others on here that are MUCH better with words then myself, and I don't want to waste a opportunity to have something presented to Sen. Dan Patrick with out it looking PERFECT, and including all the fine points. So if someone is interested, please use the email address above. Or maybe even multiple people sending emails would help.
 

Ian

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CrossFire wrote:
I found this on another thread and thought better be posted here. I think this needs to acted on swiftly.:celebrate

Sen. Dan Patrick's legislative aid said she would be more then happy to look over some of the details of the bill and present it to him, as "he is a large supporter of gun rights". She wants me to send her details on the bill... I am not sure what points and info you would think best to include to maybe help make this happen so here is the email she said to send the information to: kate.tigg@senate.state.tx.us

I would do this myself, but I am sure there are others on here that are MUCH better with words then myself, and I don't want to waste a opportunity to have something presented to Sen. Dan Patrick with out it looking PERFECT, and including all the fine points. So if someone is interested, please use the email address above. Or maybe even multiple people sending emails would help.
I'll email her. The problem is that I am only going on what I was told by Riddle's Chief of Staff, he didn't give me a copy of the bill that they drafted.

Here is the email that I sent:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello,

My name is Ian McCarthy. I am a member of Opencarry.org and the Chairman of the Texas Open Carry Work Group trying to get open carry passed here in Texas.
A member of the board said he spoke to an aid of Sen. Dan Patrick which I would assume is you.

I have talked with Representative Debbie Riddle's Chief of Staff many times about the bill that they have drafted. It came back from leg council many weeks ago, but now Rep. Riddle does not have plans on filing the bill. As he would not give me a copy of the bill, all I know about the bill is that it is a LICENSED open carry bill, meaning that people that have concealed handguns licenses honored by Texas will be able to have the option to open carry.

Now, whether they wanted to amend current CHL law or make a new law, I don't know.

If you have not seen the petition for open carry in Texas, here is the link:
http://www.petitiononline.com/texasoc

As you can see, over 58,000 Texans have signed the petition.
Comparatively, Oklahoma and South Carolina have already introduced open carry bills this session with petitions of only 3 or 4 thousand. The people have spoken, and they want open carry in Texas.

I would much rather this bill get introduced and at least given a shot then to die on Rep. Riddle's desk.

Please let me know if you need any more information.

-
--------------------------------------------
Ian McCarthy
Chairman
Texas Open Carry Work Group
 

Ian

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Alright guys, I got someone pretty high up that is calling around trying to find a person to introduce the bill. I'll let you know how it turns out.
 

gzcp31

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SA-TX wrote:
If you really want to do something like this, may I suggest pre-1899 carry? That has a few advantages:

1) People won't be seeing "assault weapons". :shock:

2) According to the definition of "firearm" in the Penal Code (at 40.01(3)), a pre-1899 handgun is NOT a firearm and thus not a handgun for the purposes of UCW or Unlawful Carry by a License Holder.

3) Federal law is also on your side as pre-1899 guns are antiques and as such not subject to the usual restrictions. The fact that federal and state law agree on this add strength to the argument that you weren't carrying a gun in the eyes of the law.
Just a s a sock and a roll of coins is not a club. The courts look at the intent of what they are beung used for. IF you put the roll of coins in the sock and use it as a club then it is one.A Pre-1899 handgunthatused asa weapon, courts will confirm it is a weapon. Be careful. People have already been convicted as such trying this defence.

http://www.criminal-lawyer-houston-texas.com/TEXAS-WEAPON-LAWS.pdf
 

KBCraig

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gzcp31 wrote:
Just a s a sock and a roll of coins is not a club. The courts look at the intent of what they are beung used for. IF you put the roll of coins in the sock and use it as a club then it is one.A Pre-1899 handgunthatused asa weapon, courts will confirm it is a weapon. Be careful. People have already been convicted as such trying this defence.

http://www.criminal-lawyer-houston-texas.com/TEXAS-WEAPON-LAWS.pdf

While it might be a weapon, it is not a handgun under the defintions found in Texas law. The charge of unlawfully carrying a weapon includes handguns, as defined in Chapter 46.

If courts ruled that other things are handguns, they erred.
 

gzcp31

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KBCraig wrote:
gzcp31 wrote:
Just a s a sock and a roll of coins is not a club. The courts look at the intent of what they are beung used for. IF you put the roll of coins in the sock and use it as a club then it is one.A Pre-1899 handgunthatused asa weapon, courts will confirm it is a weapon. Be careful. People have already been convicted as such trying this defence.

http://www.criminal-lawyer-houston-texas.com/TEXAS-WEAPON-LAWS.pdf

While it might be a weapon, it is not a handgun under the defintions found in Texas law. The charge of unlawfully carrying a weapon includes handguns, as defined in Chapter 46.

If courts ruled that other things are handguns, they erred.
I agree, but you will probibly be charged with Unlawful Carry of a Weapon.
 

SA-TX

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gzcp31 wrote:
SA-TX wrote:
If you really want to do something like this, may I suggest pre-1899 carry? That has a few advantages:

1) People won't be seeing "assault weapons". :shock:

2) According to the definition of "firearm" in the Penal Code (at 40.01(3)), a pre-1899 handgun is NOT a firearm and thus not a handgun for the purposes of UCW or Unlawful Carry by a License Holder.

3) Federal law is also on your side as pre-1899 guns are antiques and as such not subject to the usual restrictions. The fact that federal and state law agree on this add strength to the argument that you weren't carrying a gun in the eyes of the law.
Just a s a sock and a roll of coins is not a club. The courts look at the intent of what they are beung used for. IF you put the roll of coins in the sock and use it as a club then it is one.A Pre-1899 handgunthatused asa weapon, courts will confirm it is a weapon. Be careful. People have already been convicted as such trying this defence.

http://www.criminal-lawyer-houston-texas.com/TEXAS-WEAPON-LAWS.pdf
Of the cases I'm familiar with where the pre-1899 exemption was brought up, it was discussed in the context of the state not having proved that the weapon in question wasn't made before 1899. For example, someone is found to be possessing a handgun and their lawyer argues that they might not have committed UCW because the weapon wasn't proven by the state to have been made after 1899. That is completely different from having an actual pre-1899 revolver and being able to prove that it was made before 1899. If you can cite a case where a defendant was convicted of UCW and the firearm in question was proven to be pre-1899, I'd love to know about it. That would certainly make me reconsider my position.
 

SANDCREEK

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Folks in Texas can take advantage of the "legal" exposure available to them under the existing law.

Display that holstered handgun while at your residence, when in direct route to your vehicle, and other premises under your control (business, workplace). I think every "receptionist" station should be staffed with at least one armed employee.
 

DKSuddeth

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SANDCREEK wrote:
Folks in Texas can take advantage of the "legal" exposure available to them under the existing law.

Display that holstered handgun while at your residence, when in direct route to your vehicle, and other premises under your control (business, workplace). I think every "receptionist" station should be staffed with at least one armed employee.
in direct route to your vehicle........

I should have the wife take the car up to the grocery store and then go for a walk.
 

KBCraig

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SANDCREEK wrote:
Folks in Texas can take advantage of the "legal" exposure available to them under the existing law.

Display that holstered handgun while at your residence, when in direct route to your vehicle, and other premises under your control (business, workplace). I think every "receptionist" station should be staffed with at least one armed employee.
I never hesitate to OC in my house or yard, with the exception of greeting my wife's clients (she works at home, and there's no need to mix activism with business), or when my daughter (19) has friends over that I don't already know. I OC while doing yard work, chores, checking the mail, chatting with neighbors (staying on my side of the line), etc., etc.

When we invited her first for-real, serious, this-might-be-it boyfriend over for dinner a few weeks ago and met him for the first time, I didn't bother to cover up. I already had a good feel for him because I trust my daughter's judgement.

He never mentioned the .45 on my hip. He obviously adores Baby Girl. He loves dogs (his late beloved boxer is tattooed on his shoulder). He kicked everybody's butt in Scrabble. He mowed our yard.

The boy is batting a thousand so far. :D
 
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