OCDO meetup? 06/04/07

[HankT]

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nakedshoplifter wrote:

Hank,

You seem to relish in the fact that you think I (we) failed in our efforts last night. Sure, the intent was to tape the event and we were not sucessful.

No, I don't relish it. Just acknowledge it. I complimented you on the quality of the video that was made and posted. I complimented you for the audio posting. I complimented Horrid Mischief for his comments. But if I critique your two, count em' two failed opportunities to videotape a MMM meeting, then you get all pouty. I see that as pretty self-centered on your part. You take the compliments but no, no criticism for you.Must be nice to live in a dream world like that, where the only comments allowed are those which are PC ones.


nakedshoplifter wrote:

Hank,

You seem to relish in the fact that you think I (we) failed in our efforts last night. Sure, the intent was to tape the event and we were not sucessful.

No, I don't relish it. Just acknowledge it. I complimented you on the quality of the video that was made and posted. I complimented you for the audio posting. I compllimented Horrid Mischief for his comments. But if I critique your two, count em' two failed opportunities to videotape a MMM meeting, then you get all pouty. I see that as pretty self-centered on your part. You take the compliments but no, no criticism for you. Must be nice to live in a dream world like that.



nakedshoplifter wrote:

But, by the MMM cancelling the event, and THAT being recorded, along with all the crazy stuff they said about private meetings and discrimination to name a few (all on video) I think we scored a much more powerful victory than we ever could have imagined. Not only that, but the MMM's agenda was not spread that night. I don't care what they do in a private venue. I do care about my taxpayer funded library being used as a backdrop for attacking freedom.

Oh please. You're just trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. The objective was to tape the meeting (after getting snookered out of doing it the last time). It was IMPLICIT in taping it that THE MEETING WOULD TAKE PLACE AND THAT THEREFORE THE MMM'S AGENDA WOULD BE SPREAD.

The mental gymnastics required to say that we are all BETTER OFF for your being the direct cause of the cancellation of the meeting are pretty extreme.

I would grant that the footage of the goofy MMMers cancelling the meeting for the reason they did is very good. But not as good as the meeting. And the woman asking you a bunch of questions is going to be used to make the interloper group of armed VCDL group members (something like that) look really bad. SheOWN3d you.

nakedshoplifter wrote:

This will be my last reply to your posts Hank. You may not be against us, but I feel you don't support us either. You don't have much of anything positive to add to any discussion, and I'm for one am tired of your negativity. My not wishing to sign a document does not mean "I'm too slow" (retarded?) which is what you implied in your previous post. I don't give a hoot whether it's enforcible or not. I don't care to take the time away from work or spend money to defend myself against silly suits in court.

I fiercely support the RKBA and effective and thoughtful efforts by others to do the same. I don't beleive your efforts fall in there. Others signed that same waiver and weren't troubled by trivialities like too much space between the lines. There is no way you would have gotten sued. You justcompromisedand cavedin. Twice.

That's my opinion.



nakedshoplifter wrote:

I encourage everyone else who is sick of Hank to do the same (ignore).

I encourage someone, anyone,to actually tape a MMM meeting someday.

 

[Citizen]

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We'll need two videographers at the VCDL meetings. One to tape the meeting, and one to tape them.

Does anybody have an audio recording of the first MMM meeting in Burke to refute the accusations about our side's behavior? I don't thinkour sidedid anything genuinely disruptive at Burke except try to ask questions or clear up some mis-quoted law.Our sidedidn't shout chants, or try incessantly to ask questions if I understand things.Didn't somebody say in the earlier posts that our side raised their hands to ask questions?

 

[Tomahawk]

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Hawkflyer wrote:

Tomahawk wrote:

Okay, I finally watched the whole 3 videos.

That woman's voice made me want to listen to nails on a chalkboard to relax after a few minutes, but I think it's pretty funny that the only thing we have to do to make the antis give up and quit is to show up and watch or tape them. Had I been there I would havebeen tempted to laughat them and told them they were scattering like roaches when the light comes on. I really have trouble taking these people seriously after we crashed their news conference back in January and they threw a hissy fit.

I guess the old saying is true: Sunlight is the best disinfectant.

Now, expect them to show up at the next VCDL meeting of course. Be aware.

"In peace, there's nothing so becomes a man as modest stillness, and humility; but when the blast of war blows in our ears, then imitate the action of the tiger, stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood...now set the teeth and stretch the nostril wide, hold hard the breath, and bend up every spirit to its full height!" - William shakespeare

They will never walk into a room full of armed citizens. If they do they will be expected to behave just as well as any VCDL member.

Regards

Henry V. I loved the film adaptation with Kenneth Branagh.

Although I like Longwatch's idea better. Make some light-hearted mock "waivers" and invite them in to listen as we don't throw a fit, don't run away, don't ask them to "move your cookies so they don't touch ours, ewww..." and don't fail to invite them Fuddrucker's for an ostrich burger afterwards. Explain to them that although we'd prefer they not heckle us in the meeting or use foul language like they do at their meetings, they're free to protest all they'd like, as it just pumps up our membership, and that once the speaker has finished delivering the news, we'd be happy to talk with them. Just don't get between me and that ostrich burger.

 

[HankT]

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Citizen wrote:

Does anybody have an audio recording of the first MMM meeting in Burke to refute the accusations about our side's behavior? I don't thinkour sidedid anything genuinely disruptive at Burke except try to ask questions or clear up some mis-quoted law.Our sidedidn't shout chants, or try incessantly to ask questions if I understand things.Didn't somebody say in the earlier posts that our side raised their hands to ask questions?

On the "disruptive" question, here's what Longwatch said at the time:

The only thing that I would take issue with is interupting the speakers (if I read it correctly). I know it was with the truth but I think we might do better with being exceptionally polite. Raising our hands to be called on if we wish to speak and so on. Makes us look even more reasonable and may help to keep their minds open enough to hear what we are saying.

And here's what Hawkflyer said:

If you look at all this from their point of view, the VCDL presence at their meeting was excessive and it was frightening. From what I have read, if the armed citizens did not outnumber them, it was close. So how would they see such a presence of armed strangers that virtually took over their meeting, and certainly had an impact on the evenings agenda?

Now I know I will hear all about how open VCDL would have been if the situation were reversed. But suppose 25 off duty BATFE agents showed up at a normal VCDL meeting wearing guns and BATF hats, filed into the room and said nothing about why they were there? Suppose they started milling around with cameras taking pictures of people and close-ups of the firearms. Gee, do you think this forum would have remained quiet that night?


BothHawkflyer and Longwatch clearly felt the OCDC/VCDL group must have been "disruptive." And for Hawk to compare it to a BATF incursion pretty speaks clearly to that issue.

That's why the MMMers were so reactive and retaliatory at the Centreville meeting. Thoroughly predictable.

Yes, indeed,obviously the OCDC/VCDL group was "disruptive" at the MMM meeting in Burke. To not see that is to be in denial.

 

[Hawkflyer]

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Tomahawk wrote:

...SNIP

Although I like Longwatch's idea better. Make some light-hearted mock "waivers" and invite them in to listen as we don't throw a fit, don't run away, don't ask them to "move your cookies so they don't touch ours, ewww..." and don't fail to invite them Fuddrucker's for an ostrich burger afterwards. Explain to them that although we'd prefer they not heckle us in the meeting or use foul language like they do at their meetings, they're free to protest all they'd like, as it just pumps up our membership, and that once the speaker has finished delivering the news, we'd be happy to talk with them. Just don't get between me and that ostrich burger.

I think it is important that the VCDL meeting go as planned. But people do need to be aware that the MMM has a reputation for not only uncivilized behavior, but actual violence against opponents. As an organization they have NEVER taken a stand against their members violently striking out against opponents.

There are also a number of reports of them canceling meetings long before this, when pro-rights people try to attend.

So people should not be surprised if they show up with the specific intent of creating an incident. This potential puts the full burden of civilized lawful behavior on VCDL members. Under these circumstances it would be very important for the meeting to be run very formally, and require people be recognized by the chair before speaking from the floor.

All that said, let them come. VCDL is a pro-rights group, and I do not believe that they would EVER suppress anyone, or their right to speak.

I am compelled to add that, I do not require anyone to put any spin on what I have said in the past concerning these MMM meetings. Out of context distortions do not reflect the truth.

Regards

 

[Citizen]

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Mock waivers is a GREAT idea! Sample waiver:

"I, ______________, during my attendance at any 2nd Amend rights organization meeting, agree not to advocate denial of the basic human right to self-defense without also publicly advocating repeal of laws against rape, murder, and mayhem (legal definition), understanding full well that if a life is not worth defending in the instant of attack,it is not worth enough to criminalize taking it away or gravely injuring it. I further agree:

1. To not interfere with others who have sufficient sense of personal responsibility to be prepared to stop grave bodily injury or death of themselves or loved ones in the instant of attack.

1A. To not interfere with others who have enough personal courage to fight back against such an attack, rather than denying the right to others just because Iknow Iwould "freeze" in terror and be unable to defend myself.

1B. To not interfere with others' right to self-defense just to memorialize and keep alive the memory of a lost loved one, or hold at bay the terror of imagined attack upon myself or loved one.

2. To waive my own right to self-defense; and hold harmless the members if they do not defend me against attack by non-members.

3. To refrain from pretending that military-type arms and the collective right to self-defense are not just the natural aggregate of the individual right to self-defense without also advocating the legalization of genocide and democide (homicide committed by a government against its own citizens).

4. To refrain from emotional outbursts.

5. To refrain from introducing distortions or falsehoods.

6. To keep my hands offtheircookies.


________________________________Lay ID here for photo

Signed Date(Sorry, we don't trustyou)

 

[Hawkflyer]

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Citizen wrote:

Mock waivers is a GREAT idea!  Sample waiver:

"I, ______________, during my attendance at any 2nd Amend rights organization meeting, agree not to advocate denial of the basic human right to self-defense without also publicly advocating repeal of laws against rape, murder, and mayhem (legal definition), understanding full well that if a life is not worth defending in the instant of attack, it is not worth enough to criminalize taking it away or gravely injuring it.  I further agree:

1. To not interfere with others who have sufficient sense of personal responsibility to be prepared to stop grave bodily injury or death of themselves or loved ones in the instant of attack. 

1A.  To not interfere with others who have enough personal courage to fight back against such an attack, rather than denying the right to others just because I know I would "freeze" in terror and be unable to defend myself.

1B.  To not interfere with others' right to self-defense just to memorialize and keep alive the memory of a lost loved one, or hold at bay the terror of imagined attack upon myself or loved one. 

2.  To waive my own right to self-defense; and hold harmless the members if they do not defend me against attack by non-members. 

3.  To refrain from pretending that military-type arms and the collective right to self-defense are not just the natural aggregate of the individual right to self-defense without also advocating the legalization of genocide and democide (homicide committed by a government against its own citizens).

4.  To refrain from emotional outbursts.

5.  To refrain from introducing distortions or falsehoods.

6.  To keep my hands off their cookies.


______________________       __________      Lay ID here for photo

Signed                                         Date                  (Sorry, we don't trust you)                

The cameras, you left out the cameras. Also audio recordings. My god man these people should not be allow to record the truth, it would upset Rossie.

Regards:lol::celebrate:lol: (its back)

 

[Citizen]

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No sweat about cameras. We're generous. If they don't bring their own, we'll provide themDVDs of the meeting and themselves.

 

[Citizen]

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Good point about them being possibly violent. We can just walk the video across the hall to the police station.

 

[Hawkflyer]

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Citizen wrote:

No sweat about cameras.  We're generous.  If they don't bring their own, we'll provide them DVDs of the meeting and themselves.

I was thinking that myself, but I did not want to make work for anyone. You know, VCDL might want to consider excluding cameras, taping the event, and offering the DVD to anyone who wants one for a "reasonable" price.

Of course I would not suggest they take any checks.:lol:

Regards

 

[HankT]

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Hawkflyer wrote:

I am compelled to add that, I do not require anyone to put any spin on what I have said in the past concerning these MMM meetings. Out of context distortions do not reflect the truth.

So, what is "out of context" in this quote of what you said?

If you look at all this from their point of view, the VCDL presence at their meeting was excessive and it was frightening. From what I have read, if the armed citizens did not outnumber them, it was close. So how would they see such a presence of armed strangers that virtually took over their meeting, and certainly had an impact on the evenings agenda?

Now I know I will hear all about how open VCDL would have been if the situation were reversed. But suppose 25 off duty BATFE agents showed up at a normal VCDL meeting wearing guns and BATF hats, filed into the room and said nothing about why they were there? Suppose they started milling around with cameras taking pictures of people and close-ups of the firearms. Gee, do you think this forum would have remained quiet that night?

Where you trying to say something other than what you actually typed? Are you recanting what you said? Or what?

Are you just doing the "I wish I hadn't said that dance?" :celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate

 

[bohdi]

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Hawkflyer wrote:

Citizen wrote:

No sweat about cameras. We're generous. If they don't bring their own, we'll provide themDVDs of the meeting and themselves.

I was thinking that myself, but I did not want to make work for anyone. You know, VCDL might want to consider excluding cameras, taping the event, and offering the DVD to anyone who wants one for a "reasonable" price.

Of course I would not suggest they take any checks.:lol:

Regards

Offer them for free I say, ask for them to cover postage, especially if they'd like it over nighted I would offer up my ability to reproduce DVDs of this nature but there may be others who could do so more quickly with the right equipment.

 

[Hawkflyer]

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bohdi wrote:

Hawkflyer wrote:

Citizen wrote:

No sweat about cameras.  We're generous.  If they don't bring their own, we'll provide them DVDs of the meeting and themselves.

I was thinking that myself, but I did not want to make work for anyone. You know, VCDL might want to consider excluding cameras, taping the event, and offering the DVD to anyone who wants one for a "reasonable" price.

Of course I would not suggest they take any checks.:lol:

Regards

Offer them for free I say, ask for them to cover postage, especially if they'd like it over nighted I would offer up my ability to reproduce DVDs of this nature but there may be others who could do so more quickly with the right equipment.

I actually can do it myself. 3 AVIDs, and a few authoring machines ought to do the trick. But I was hoping to figure out some way to have the MMM contribute to our cause $$$.. Actually the MMM should have thought of that. They could have paid for their speaker by selling the DVDs.

 

[BobCav]

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(announcer whispering.....)

We've secretly replaced this MMM protester's VCDL meeting video with a copy of NAKEDSHOPLIFTERS video of THEIR OWN meeting.... (and RAMBO First Blood).

Let's follow them home and see what happens...

(car pulls into driveway, shuts off, door opens, closes)

(footsteps...)

(front door opens, closes.)

(sounds of tv and dvd disk being inserted)

HONEY!? Come here, I want you and the kids to see what a good job mommy did crashing the meeting of those vile evil gun carrying jerks that crashed our meeting!



Here we go kids!



Wait a minute.....



What the f....



WHAT THE HELL IS THIS SH%T??? THIS ISN'T WHAT I PAID FOR! THOSE FILTHY C(#K 5U#*@NG FUC&#%@ BA5(@^#!!!I WANT MY MONEY...



Hey look, there's mommy!



Oh no, I KNEW that dress would make me look fat! SONUVABITCH!



Never show that video to ANYONE!!



NEVER!!!

 

[Citizen]

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BobCav, you're sneaky.

 

[Hawkflyer]

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You know you make me think of a very interesting aspect of all this. There was a discovery channel program a few years ago on the "new" KKK. In this video they interviewed a lot of KKK wives. OF course they showed a lot of kids too.

It was actually sickening to watch them educate these children in hatred and bigotry. Can imagine little 3 year olds and even babes in arms in sheets with "pin head" hats on. That is what this program showed.

It would not be unreasonable to believe that is exactly what is going on in the homes of the MMM members. You know their part line is not just a simple "guns kill kids", it is actually a demonization of gun owners. They do not let their children play with the children of gun owners, and there are reports from California that they actually teach their kids to bully the children of gun owners. Kind of sick really.

I want my country back.

Regards

 

[Lew]

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If they showed up to the meeting, wouldn't they collapse under the logic? I mean, if nobody got shot, could they stand there arguing about how dangerous firearms are? (I know the answer, I'm just sayin...)

 

[bohdi]

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http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=knotageek&p=r

You should see the first 6 minutes with some additional information of the pre-meeting footage, named part 1, 2, and 3. I may post the entire thing if I get another app to help out.

http://www.youtube.com/my_videos

 

[unrequited]

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bohdi wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=knotageek&p=r

You should see the first 6 minutes with some additional information of the pre-meeting footage, named part 1, 2, and 3. I may post the entire thing if I get another app to help out.

http://www.youtube.com/my_videos

Double-filming was a GREAT idea. I remember this lady (nasty!) and the yappy blonde one who ended up making the announcement. Thanks for upping these.

 

[Reverend73]

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HankT wrote:

I encourage someone, anyone,to actually tape a MMM meeting someday.

How 'bout you put your money where your mouth is and YOU tape the next one.