dave_in_delaware
Regular Member
imported post
OK, I've been wondering about OC in a New Castle County public library. I can't recall any signs prohibiting it, but then again I've never really looked for such signs.
Wynder, and anyone else familiar w/ the Laws, please evaluate these rules and apply them to any sources/annotations you may have so we can come up w/ the "legitimacy" of prohibiting lawful OC in the PUBLIC library.... Thanks!
OK, to start, let's assume there are NO signs prohibiting weapons. Even if there were, let's argue the rules anyway (see below).
The Patron Code of Conduct ("Policy") states (obviously edited for pertinent info only):
Besides, the public libraryisn't a private institution (or private property), right? So the "owner" of the property can't arbitrarily decide "no guns," right? Since it's public, my rights to open carry a weapon can't be denied, correct?
Let's dig deeper....
In the Staff Guidelines for Library User Behavior handbook, the Introduction states that
[align=left]
Would OC of a handgun for personal protection be considered "problem behavior"??
Furthermore, it states that
Digging deeper, the Library User Code of Conduct states:
Hmmm.... is there some sort of contradiction of rights here? Could we have an argument (similar to an illegal park ordnance) that denying OC in a public library is indeed violating our constitutional rights (or something like that)? Or is it OK because it's a County library system?
I'd like to get everyone's opinion on this before calling them and arguing my point.
Thanks![/font]
OK, I've been wondering about OC in a New Castle County public library. I can't recall any signs prohibiting it, but then again I've never really looked for such signs.
Wynder, and anyone else familiar w/ the Laws, please evaluate these rules and apply them to any sources/annotations you may have so we can come up w/ the "legitimacy" of prohibiting lawful OC in the PUBLIC library.... Thanks!
OK, to start, let's assume there are NO signs prohibiting weapons. Even if there were, let's argue the rules anyway (see below).
The Patron Code of Conduct ("Policy") states (obviously edited for pertinent info only):
To ensure the continued safety and comfort of our patrons and staff, please observe the following:[font="Myriad Pro,Myriad Pro"]
1. Disruptive conduct is prohibited. This includes, but is not limited to:
• Fighting, threats, or weapons in the library[/font]
So, it sounds to me that no weapons are permitted in the library... but.... they lumped it into fighting and threats. OC isn't threatening if done correctly.[font="Myriad Pro,Myriad Pro"]
Besides, the public libraryisn't a private institution (or private property), right? So the "owner" of the property can't arbitrarily decide "no guns," right? Since it's public, my rights to open carry a weapon can't be denied, correct?
Let's dig deeper....
In the Staff Guidelines for Library User Behavior handbook, the Introduction states that
[align=left]
[/align]These guidelines are designed to help New Castle County library staff to identify and handle problem behavior. The emphasis is on problem behavior rather than problem library users in order to increase staff awareness that labeling library users as problems usually does not contribute to constructive problem solving.
Would OC of a handgun for personal protection be considered "problem behavior"??
Furthermore, it states that
How does my lawful OC of a firearm violate the rights of others to USE the PUBLIC facility? And if they want "safe" then why wouldn't they want a law-abiding citizen to OC a firearm since "use of force for the protection of others" is a defense against criminal liability for us?
[align=left]The library staff has the responsibility to protect the safety of all library users and fellow staff members, to maintain the security of library property within the library, and to maintain order and the security of library property. The Library User Code of Conduct includes a list of unacceptable behaviors. The behaviors are unacceptable because they violate the rights of others to use the public facility, which is to be safe and accessible for everyone. Unacceptable library user behavior requires intervention by staff. When there is a serious immediate threat to the personal safety of staff or library users, act quickly to protect them. Call police, medical help, fire department, or when necessary, leave the building or take other reasonable and necessary steps. Eccentric behavior, which does not disturb others, does not require intervention by the staff. Sometimes it is difficult to evaluate when eccentric behavior becomes a problem behavior. Supervisors should be consulted in determining what action, if any, should be taken.[/align]
Digging deeper, the Library User Code of Conduct states:
Unless I was looking at the wrong statute, 9 Del. C. Sections 801 and 1101 doesn't say anything about "no weapons." And number 3 forbids me to bring a weapon into the library. Period.
[align=left]The New Castle County Library System provides public library services without discrimination to persons seeking information and knowledge through the use of the library's materials, programs and equipment. To provide such services efficiently and effectively, the New Castle County Library System has adopted the following Library User Code of Conduct, pursuant to current 9 Del. C. Sections 801 and 1101.[/align]
[align=left]...[/align]
[align=left]3. Library users shall not bring a weapon into the library or engage in any activity which any other library user or library staff would reasonably regard as threatening.[/align]
Hmmm.... is there some sort of contradiction of rights here? Could we have an argument (similar to an illegal park ordnance) that denying OC in a public library is indeed violating our constitutional rights (or something like that)? Or is it OK because it's a County library system?
I'd like to get everyone's opinion on this before calling them and arguing my point.
Thanks![/font]