Obama Wants Senate To Ratify Arms Treaty

[since9]

I meant "traitor" in that they have "betrayed" their oaths.

Definition of TRAITOR

1: one who betrays another's trust or is false to an obligation or duty
2: one who commits treason

So, you're referring to the first definition, not the second. Ok. Usually, use of the world "traitor" used in conjunction with government service refers to treason.

 

[Jim675]

Congressmen (representatives) have no say on the matter. Senators only. SNIP...

Just a friendly note for future reference: The Congress of the US consists of the Senate and the House of Reps. Both are indeed congress-critters.

This is an old fearmail that was sent out by ccrkba.org last year. SNIP...

The CCRKBA is run by the same gentleman that runs the Second Amendment Foundation. Of McDonald fame. Works with Alan Gura. That SAF. If their leadership uses a wide audience to fund such fantastic work it is with my full blessing.

Also, ccrkba's web site seems quite current. It shows this notice was sent Oct 19, 2011.

Carry on.

 

[Redbaron007]

snip...

The CCRKBA is run by the same gentleman that runs the Second Amendment Foundation. Of McDonald fame. Works with Alan Gura. That SAF. If their leadership uses a wide audience to fund such fantastic work it is with my full blessing.

Also, ccrkba's web site seems quite current. It shows this notice was sent Oct 19, 2011.

Carry on.

The email has been resent since the last post. I got it again, but it is still the same one from last year.

What did the SAF do? Everyone was in on McDonald. I haven't seen any leadership out of them; subsequently I don't support them. I see them as a paper group that only sends emails, faxes and Friend of the Court briefs (with many other groups). Aside from this, what do they do? I'm not bashing them, I just haven't seen THEM do anything on their own. I'm open for any information on them, but please don't quote their website.

 

[Jim675]

The McDonald suit was brought by SAF.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_Foundation

 

[Redbaron007]

The McDonald suit was brought by SAF.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_Foundation

Actually Alan Gura filed the petition; the SAF and Ill State Rifle Assocaition supported the suit. The NRA had a suit in the mix as well, NRA v Chicago. The McDonald v Chicago and NRA v Chicago were combined by the courts. Many conversations have suggested these two should have never been combined, they were appealed seperately but remained combined. The debate going is the NRA v Chicago should have been the one to go to the SCOTUS. It had a narrow approach that would have had the greatest impact.

I guess the only claim SAF has is to have helped finance McD v Chicago. I applaud any organization that supports the 2A. SAF has done this. However, the appearance is they just do press releases and tag along on other suits. Their political clout seems to be non-existant. They may file after the horrible legislation is signed, I support any organization that is proactive in protecting the 2A, not reactive, waiting to file a lawsuit. I know this happens, but if they can prevent encroachment at the beginning on the 2A, that is better.

Also, please make the connection with Alan Gura and SAF/CCRKBA.

 

[Daylen]

Actually Alan Gura filed the petition; the SAF and Ill State Rifle Assocaition supported the suit. The NRA had a suit in the mix as well, NRA v Chicago. The McDonald v Chicago and NRA v Chicago were combined by the courts. Many conversations have suggested these two should have never been combined, they were appealed seperately but remained combined. The debate going is the NRA v Chicago should have been the one to go to the SCOTUS. It had a narrow approach that would have had the greatest impact.

I guess the only claim SAF has is to have helped finance McD v Chicago. I applaud any organization that supports the 2A. SAF has done this. However, the appearance is they just do press releases and tag along on other suits. Their political clout seems to be non-existant. They may file after the horrible legislation is signed, I support any organization that is proactive in protecting the 2A, not reactive, waiting to file a lawsuit. I know this happens, but if they can prevent encroachment at the beginning on the 2A, that is better.

Also, please make the connection with Alan Gura and SAF/CCRKBA.

All methods are needed. There is no single correct way to protect the bill of rights. We need lobbyists, grassroots, lawyers, legislators and PACs; everything.

 

[Redbaron007]

All methods are needed. There is no single correct way to protect the bill of rights. We need lobbyists, grassroots, lawyers, legislators and PACs; everything.

Concur!

However, SAF/CCRKBA have shown little to contribute to what you stated. JMHO.

Are you aware of the connection between SAF/CCRKBA and Alan Gura? I'm not, that's why I am asking.

 

[Jim675]

Concur!

However, SAF/CCRKBA have shown little to contribute to what you stated. JMHO.

Are you aware of the connection between SAF/CCRKBA and Alan Gura? I'm not, that's why I am asking.

SAF brought the suit. Alan Gura was their lawyer.

 

[Redbaron007]

SAF brought the suit. Alan Gura was their lawyer.

Actually, McDonald, IL State Rifle Association and SAF hired Alan.....Alan is not otherwise associated with SAF/CCRKBA. Here is his Law Firm site.

 

[Jim675]

Actually, McDonald, IL State Rifle Association and SAF hired Alan.....Alan is not otherwise associated with SAF/CCRKBA. Here is his Law Firm site.

Mr. Gura is not solely employed by SAF.

On June 26, 2008, following the ruling in District of Columbia vs. Heller affirming an individual Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms by the Supreme Court of the United States, the Second Amendment Foundation filed a suit, known as McDonald v. Chicago, against the City of Chicago to overturn its handgun ban.[SUP][6][/SUP] Alan Gura, who successfully argued Heller before the Supreme Court, was lead counsel in this case.

http://bit.ly/telnZl

 

[Redbaron007]

Mr. Gura is not solely employed by SAF.

On June 26, 2008, following the ruling in District of Columbia vs. Heller affirming an individual Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms by the Supreme Court of the United States, the Second Amendment Foundation filed a suit, known as McDonald v. Chicago, against the City of Chicago to overturn its handgun ban.[SUP][6][/SUP] Alan Gura, who successfully argued Heller before the Supreme Court, was lead counsel in this case.

http://bit.ly/telnZl

This too.

The petition for certiorari was filed by Alan Gura, the attorney who had successfully argued Heller, and Chicago-area attorney David G. Sigale.[SUP][3][/SUP] The Second Amendment Foundation and the Illinois State Rifle Association sponsored the litigation on behalf of several Chicago residents, including retiree Otis McDonald.[SUP][4][/SUP]

 

[Jim675]

Guess I'm not sure what you're asking for. SAF (and the local NRA affiliate) worked with Gura to find appropriate clients. SAF has been very active in many cases. They are probably the most effective group in the US. What, beyond the cases listed in their website, are you looking for?

 

[Redbaron007]

Guess I'm not sure what you're asking for. SAF (and the local NRA affiliate) worked with Gura to find appropriate clients. SAF has been very active in many cases. They are probably the most effective group in the US. What, beyond the cases listed in their website, are you looking for?

They are probably the most active at sending emails and begging for money with fearmail through CCRKBA. These two groups are of the same cloth, same family and fax machines. SAF has been involved in several suits, but they are far from being influential, except scaring folks with fearmails and collecting money. They are worse the NRA.

You and I will have to agree to disagree on their effectiveness.

 

[MilProGuy]

In the context of the OP.

Obama Pushing Shooters Off Public Lands

So it begins.

"Gun owners who have historically been able to use public lands for target practice would be barred from potentially millions of acres under new rules drafted by the Interior Department, the first major move by the Obama administration to impose limits on firearms."

 

[ALOC1911]

Actually Alan Gura filed the petition; the SAF and Ill State Rifle Assocaition supported the suit. The NRA had a suit in the mix as well, NRA v Chicago. The McDonald v Chicago and NRA v Chicago were combined by the courts. Many conversations have suggested these two should have never been combined, they were appealed seperately but remained combined. The debate going is the NRA v Chicago should have been the one to go to the SCOTUS. It had a narrow approach that would have had the greatest impact.

I guess the only claim SAF has is to have helped finance McD v Chicago. I applaud any organization that supports the 2A. SAF has done this. However, the appearance is they just do press releases and tag along on other suits. Their political clout seems to be non-existant. They may file after the horrible legislation is signed, I support any organization that is proactive in protecting the 2A, not reactive, waiting to file a lawsuit. I know this happens, but if they can prevent encroachment at the beginning on the 2A, that is better.

Also, please make the connection with Alan Gura and SAF/CCRKBA.

Buddy you have most certainly got the SAF and NRA confused. NRA is who tags along on these suits only after they see it looks like the suit will be won. Alan Gura is SAF's lawyer or a lawyer that is employed by them. All the negative talking you've done about SAF exactly describes the NRA.

 

[ALOC1911]

They are probably the most active at sending emails and begging for money with fearmail through CCRKBA. These two groups are of the same cloth, same family and fax machines. SAF has been involved in several suits, but they are far from being influential, except scaring folks with fearmails and collecting money. They are worse the NRA.

You and I will have to agree to disagree on their effectiveness.

OMG are you kidding me???????????? SAF does not beg for money all the time. NRA is who does that. Try watching "Wed Night At The Range" shows by Midway USA on the Outdoor channel every Wed night and see who has the most ads wanting money, SAF or NRA. You are totaly clueless and should not mention either one of these groups again.

 

[Daylen]

OMG are you kidding me???????????? SAF does not beg for money all the time. NRA is who does that. Try watching "Wed Night At The Range" shows by Midway USA on the Outdoor channel every Wed night and see who has the most ads wanting money, SAF or NRA. You are totaly clueless and should not mention either one of these groups again.

SAF begs me for money all the time. They do so about the same in snail mail, but NRA wins out in the most email category.

 

[Redbaron007]

OMG are you kidding me???????????? SAF does not beg for money all the time. NRA is who does that. Try watching "Wed Night At The Range" shows by Midway USA on the Outdoor channel every Wed night and see who has the most ads wanting money, SAF or NRA. You are totaly clueless and should not mention either one of these groups again.

My email on a WEEKLY basis is 4-1 more with CCRKBA/SAF over the NRA.

Alan was hired by SAF, he is not employed by them, he has his own law firm, chrck the link out that previously posted. There are several good attorneys that argued McDonald. Also, the NRA didnt tag onto McDonald, this case was combined with the NRA case; the courts combined these two cases.

SAF doesn't do half what NRA does. Again, SAF tags only onto court cases, they have NO legislative power.

If I'm clueless, then what does that say about you? You crack me up!

 

[eye95]

Who was it here last year who said this wouldn't come to this? Come on, now -- fess up...

ETA: Write Congressman... Check!

Me, for one. And note that the article has stated that half the Senate would vote against it. Nowhere near the supermajority required for ratification is available, and the Senate will move further to the right next election. This won't ever see the light of day in the Senate.

It is good that we have a smoking gun revealing the anti-2A sentiment of our current president. Makes the denials of this sentiment looks just a little bit more silly.

 

[Redbaron007]

If you need something to put you to sleep or you jsut enjoy reading socialism; here is the link to the report filed this year to the UN. It was filed April 2011. There is no questions the UN is a bunch of socialist and/or communist!

The other thing, the only document that says King Obama and Hilary are wanting this to be reviewed is the email/press release by the CCRKBA. Several news organizations, like this one, all seem to reference the CCRKBA, but none give any direct quotes or comments from either. Don;t get me wrong, I'm not defending the regime, but I have come to suspect the CCRKBA on this issue, since no else seems to have the story. It appears it's more hearsay than anything. Especially the part

The Obama administration "is seeking advice and consent" for
Senate ratification of an international small arms treaty, and also supports
the inclusion of small arms in the UN Register of Conventional Arms, the Citizens
Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms learned today.

I'm curious, does anyone have additional info on this? There are lots of OP-Eds out there; all seem to agree this treaty is bad and conflicts with our 2A; but I guess I'm seeking the stance from the horses mouth.