NRA employee involved in a ND

[solus]

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/l...ts-Himself-at-NRA-Headquarters-418677433.html

A National Rifle Association employee accidentally shot himself while doing firearms training at the organization's headquarters, according to police.

sigh...

ipse

 

[countryclubjoe]

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/l...ts-Himself-at-NRA-Headquarters-418677433.html

A National Rifle Association employee accidentally shot himself while doing firearms training at the organization's headquarters, according to police.

sigh...

ipse

HUM, I suspect accidents are more prevalent during training as opposed to after, at least I hope my suspicions are correct..

Regards
CCJ

 

[WalkingWolf]

It is interesting that each of these ND moments are brought to us by those supposedly trained. Not dissing training, but a gun in a safe, or drawer has little chance of going boom. Same for a holster, leave the damn gun in the holster unless it is needed.

 

[JoeSparky]

It is interesting that each of these ND moments are brought to us by those supposedly trained. Not dissing training, but a gun in a safe, or drawer has little chance of going boom. Same for a holster, leave the damn gun in the holster unless it is needed.

Is the gun not needed during training? Sort of hard to train without it, don't you think?:shocker:

 

[Citizen]

It would be nice to know exactly what happened--so others can avoid the same mistake.

For example, one of the more obscure ND's I ever heard of was a cop holstering his gun in the winter. Well, the winter coat had those strings on the inside that can cinch it around a fella's waist. This particular coat didn't have knots in the string, it had toggles. Unknown to the cop, as he was holstering the gun, one of the toggles got caught in the trigger guard. Pay attention to that point. It means his finger was not in the trigger guard. Imagine, you follow safety rules and keep your finger out of the trigger guard; but, the absence of your finger inside the trigger guard allows a daggone jacket toggle to get into the trigger guard.

Well, later he goes to take off the coat. Of course, as he takes off the coat, the toggle on the end of the cinch string pulls up on the trigger with the usual result. Ouch!! And, massive surprise. "Why the hell did my gun just shoot me in the leg!?!?!?!" Can you imagine the total perplexity in that first second after the shot?

So, guess who has a winter coat with toggles? Yep. And, guess who now is very careful about making sure there are no strings, toggles, dead cats, or anything else that got caught while holstering. A light sweep of the finger tips after snapping the retention.

So, it would be nice to know from the NRA exactly what happened, so the rest of us can avoid it.

 

[WalkingWolf]

Is the gun not needed during training? Sort of hard to train without it, don't you think?:shocker:

Not always, guns almost always only ND when they are handled. Certain aspects of training do not need live firearm, let alone a real firearm. I have in my training box a Blackhawk training gun(plastic) that is use for retention practice. I have a couple springer airsoft that are used solely used for practicing clearing/racking a semi auto. The springers have harder slide to rack then gas airsoft. And most of live fire training is done with gas blow back quality airsoft pistols.

I am not the only one to train this way, the US Army does, and many police depts. The only time a live firearm should be used for training is on the firing line. Glock also makes a couple training pistols, but they are expensive.

Glock 22 P

Link below is to a video of company training a township police dept on active shooter.

https://vimeo.com/68584876

 

[Firearms Iinstuctor]

Is the gun not needed during training? Sort of hard to train without it, don't you think?:shocker:

One can teach a lot of basic firearm handing without a real gun

But we do not know what he was instructing or what happen other then he had a unintended discharge.

 

[OC for ME]

There is no such thing as a ND!

 

[KBCraig]

It would be nice to know exactly what happened--so others can avoid the same mistake.

For example, one of the more obscure ND's I ever heard of was a cop holstering his gun in the winter.

That is not all that obscure, actually. Most reholstering NDs involve holster obstructions, especially on DAO pistols without manual safeties. Cover garments and retention straps are the two biggies.

When I first heard of this, my first comment was exactly that: holster obstruction and a Glock. Not that the Glock is any more susceptible than others, it's just statistically more likely to be the pistol involved.

 

[mikeyb]

For example, one of the more obscure ND's I ever heard of was a cop holstering his gun in the winter. Well, the winter coat had those strings on the inside that can cinch it around a fella's waist. This particular coat didn't have knots in the string, it had toggles. Unknown to the cop, as he was holstering the gun, one of the toggles got caught in the trigger guard. Pay attention to that point. It means his finger was not in the trigger guard. Imagine, you follow safety rules and keep your finger out of the trigger guard; but, the absence of your finger inside the trigger guard allows a daggone jacket toggle to get into the trigger guard.

Read about a similar story with, I believe, an FBI or DEA agent with a windbreaker. Didn't sweep the holster clear, and hooked the drawstring as he holstered. Pop.

There is no such thing as a ND!

Are you sure you're not thinking of AD?

 

[JoeSparky]

Not always, guns almost always only ND when they are handled. Certain aspects of training do not need live firearm, let alone a real firearm. I have in my training box a Blackhawk training gun(plastic) that is use for retention practice. I have a couple springer airsoft that are used solely used for practicing clearing/racking a semi auto. The springers have harder slide to rack then gas airsoft. And most of live fire training is done with gas blow back quality airsoft pistols.

I am not the only one to train this way, the US Army does, and many police depts. The only time a live firearm should be used for training is on the firing line. Glock also makes a couple training pistols, but they are expensive.

Glock 22 P

Link below is to a video of company training a township police dept on active shooter.

https://vimeo.com/68584876

But, Still, for complete training with a firearm one does need to use the firearm in training.

 

[countryclubjoe]

But, Still, for complete training with a firearm one does need to use the firearm in training.

Indeed.. " unless of course there exist such a thing as " Virtual Reality " training, of which is " Not reality"..

One cannot expect to become efficient at foul shooting or bowling, without possessing a basketball ball and or bowling ball.

Hopefully we get back to reality on the topic.

Regards

CCJ

 

[Va_Nemo]

There is no such thing as a ND!

I disagree with you strongly. Any unintentional discharge is negligent. There is no such thing as accidental discharge.

Nemo

 

[WalkingWolf]

But, Still, for complete training with a firearm one does need to use the firearm in training.

And there is why there are so many ND's. A firearm is only needed, and designed to send a projectile at a speed fast enough to cause damage to whatever it encounters. Be my guest do your force on force or retention training with a loaded firearm.

In 2004 Tatsuya Sakai won the steel challenge with a firearm, even though he trained completely with an airsoft pistol. Yet several people have shot themselves doing completely ignorant scat with a live firearm, like Tex Gruber. Anybody with a brain does not do force, on force, retention, fast draw training with a live firearm. In most police depts, and academies firearms are not even allowed in the classes for firearms training. Drill training for the military is done with rifles that unable to fire. Seems professionals disagree with you.

 

[Firearms Iinstuctor]

.
Anybody with a brain does not do force, on force, retention, fast draw training with a live firearm. In most police depts, and academies firearms are not even allowed in the classes for firearms training. Drill training for the military is done with rifles that unable to fire. Seems professionals disagree with you.

There is some firearms training that one can do without live firearms but there is training that a live firearm is needed.

Most non firearms do not operate the same as the real thing, teaching some one some operational drills do not work with non firearms.

With the advent of good quality training guns the use of real firearms has been greatly reduced for a lot of training but can not be totally eliminated.

There are strict safety protocol's when live firearms are used in a non range setting.

The idea that most departments do not allow live firearms in all class room training is not true it has been greatly reduced but it can not be totally eliminated.

 

[OC for ME]

I disagree with you strongly. Any unintentional discharge is negligent. There is no such thing as accidental discharge.

Nemo

Every discharge is intentional. The handgun does not leave a holster on its own volition. No firearm loads itself. A trigger does not move without an external action being applied to it. Shooting oneself, someone else, or something else, unintentionally, is negligence. Zero errors must be the minimum standard.

Responsible gun owners do not permit the discharge of their firearm(s) unintentionally.

 

[Firearms Iinstuctor]

Every discharge is intentional. The handgun does not leave a holster on its own volition. No firearm loads itself. A trigger does not move without an external action being applied to it. Shooting oneself, someone else, or something else, unintentionally, is negligence. Zero errors must be the minimum standard.

Responsible gun owners do not permit the discharge of their firearm(s) unintentionally.

And the world is perfect.

 

[mikeyb]

Every discharge is intentional. The handgun does not leave a holster on its own volition. No firearm loads itself. A trigger does not move without an external action being applied to it. Shooting oneself, someone else, or something else, unintentionally, is negligence. Zero errors must be the minimum standard.

Responsible gun owners do not permit the discharge of their firearm(s) unintentionally.

To err is human.

 

[solus]

To err is human.

while err'g with a firearm someone gets injured or dies...

ipse

 

[Firearms Iinstuctor]

while err'g with a firearm someone gets injured or dies...

ipse

Some times walls, TVs and other inanimate objects get hit when an unintentional discharge happen more likely then some one getting killed or injured.

We just hear about the bad ones.

Personnel injury firearm training accidents are every rare when compared to the millions of hours a year spent training with and shooting firearms.

But that does not mean one can become complacent.