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nico1215

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I couldn't find the answer on the forum but sorry if it has been answered. I want to start open carrying in Elsmere delaware. The only problem is I live near a elementary school. I know u can't open carry in a school. Are you able to in a school zone? I definitely don't want to get popped with a gun charge while trying to get on wilmington pd
 

stephpd

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Gun free school zone if a Federal law that doesn't seem to be enforced by the local police, unless you attempt to bring a gun onto school property. With the 1000 ft rule it would be close to impossible to open carry in most of New Castle County without violating this bad law.
 

Grapeshot

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turbodog wrote:
Check to see if your state has a school zone law. Some states are more stringent than the federal law.
Welcome to the forum nico1215

Gun-FREE School Zone Act of 1996


Exception: This does not include possession of a firearm on private property that is not part of school grounds or possession of a loaded firearm by an individual who is licensed to do so by the State. (i.e. a concealed carry, weapon, or firearm permit).

turbodog is spot on - check your local state laws too.

Yata hey
 
M

McX

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Wisconsin loves the school zone:exclaim::shock::banghead:
 

aadvark

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Read Delaware Code 1457(g)..., and speak with your Local Law Enforcement Officials and a Private Attorney about this. Also, review any Case Law under Delaware Law.
 

ijusam

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if you read the law carefully, you will see that Delaware does not prohibit open carry or concealed carry on school property or even inside a school for a Law abiding citizen 18 or over.

§ 1457. Possession of a weapon in a Safe School and Recreation Zone; class D, E, or F: class A or B misdemeanor. (a) Any person who commits any of the offenses described in subsection (b) of this section, or any juvenile who possesses a firearm or other deadly weapon, and does so while in or on a "Safe School and Recreation Zone" shall be guilty of the crime of possession of a weapon in a Safe School and Recreation Zone.
(b) The underlying offenses in Title 11 shall be:
(1) Section 1442. -- Carrying a concealed deadly weapon; class G felony; class E felony. you are guilty of carrying a concealed weapon ONLY if you don't have a permit
(2) Section 1444. -- Possessing a destructive weapon; class E felony.
(3) Section 1446. -- Unlawfully dealing with a switchblade knife; unclassified misdemeanor.
(4) Section 1448. -- Possession and purchase of deadly weapons by persons prohibited; class F felony.
(5) Section 1452. -- Unlawfully dealing with knuckles-combination knife; class B misdemeanor.
(6) Section 1453. -- Unlawfully dealing with martial arts throwing star; class B misdemeanor.
so if you have a permit or OC you are within the law. legally. however, many DSP haven't looked closely at this law, the school will lock down and you will have some "splainin to do"
although Delaware doesn't prohibit it the federal government does. once you have a Delaware permit then they can't (legally) arrest you for anything.
 

aadvark

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It looks as if Ijusam is right, but... I still would check Case Law just to be sure.
 

ijusam

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8 DSP blocking the road, school locked down, 1.5 hr detention while they tried to "find out if any laws were broken".

then:

given gun back, I let them know I would be CCing that night to PTA, they stopped blocking traffic. at least one cop ticked off.

by the way... they had to ask about the de-cocking lever on my 1911... so they left one in the chamber, I reinserted the mag immediatly and holstered when returned
 

Grapeshot

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ijusam wrote:
8 DSP blocking the road, school locked down, 1.5 hr detention while they tried to "find out if any laws were broken".

then:

given gun back, I let them know I would be CCing that night to PTA, they stopped blocking traffic. at least one cop ticked off.

by the way... they had to ask about the de-cocking lever on my 1911... so they left one in the chamber, I reinserted the mag immediatly and holstered when returned
I presume you followed through with some responsive action.

What did transpire afterward to correct their actions?

BTW - what make and model 1911 do you have with a decocking lever?

Yata hey
 

ijusam

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Grapeshot wrote:
BTW - what make and model 1911 do you have with a decocking lever?

Yata hey
it does not have a decocking lever, that is why they left one in the chamber. I thought it funny they didn't know the 1911 only has a safety
 

aadvark

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The Federal School Zone Law of 1995, applies to any Public Elementary or Secondary School, as defined under applicable State Law, that provides primary or secondary education to students, as governed under State Law. The Federal Law does not apply to or effect any Post-Secondary Education, namely: 1. Colleges, 2. Universities, 3. Technical Colleges, 4. Adult GED/Literacy Centers, 5. etc.

The term'School Zone' is defined under 18 U.S.C. 921(25)(A) and 18 U.S.C 921(25)(B) means... in, on, or within 1000 feet of a School.

However, 18 U.S.C. 922(q) requires that the Firearm in question must have: '... moved in or otherwise [affected/effected]Interstate Commerce...'

Therefore, in order for The Federal Law to apply, the Firearm MUST: 1. Move in Interstate Commerce..., as Intrastate Commerce is not enough, and 2. For the Federal Offense, that is Interstate Commerce, to have occured knowingly by the suspect in a School Zone, as defined above.

Most States have adopted the provisions of 18 U.S.C. 921(25)(A), 18 U.S.C. 921(25)(B), and 18 U.S.C. 922(q)(2)(A) to apply to Intrastate Commerce, absent any Interstate Commerce..., to varying degrees of applicability.

In essence, some States have adopted the '1000 foot' rule, some, however, have not. In most States the '1000 foot' rule does not exist, but in some States it does. This depends on that State's Laws, as passed by that State's Legislature.

Furthermore, some States have adopted some, or all, of the exceptions provided under Federal Law 18 U.S.C. 922(q)(2)(B)(i) through 18 U.S.C. (q)(2)(B)(vii), while, some States have not adopted all of those exceptions. Others to varying degrees, such as Delaware.

In fact, Delaware is unique that it only applies its' Intrastate School Zone Law to any underlining Crime, the same are so named under it's School Zone Statute, and, furthermore, it only triggers the Penalty if the underlined Statute itself is being Violated.

The Statute provides, that whenany of the named underlined Offenses are committed in a School Zone, the penalty for the Offense becomes the next highest Penalty authorized under Delaware Law. However, the good thing is, if no underlined Statute is being broken, then, there is no Penalty for merely having a Legal Firearm/Weapon in a School Zone.

As is codified under Delaware Law Title 11, Chapter 5,Sub-Chapter VII, Sub-Part A, and more specifically Code -1457, Code -1457(c) includes '... Recreation[al] Zones'

Now, Delaware has a '1000 foot' rule to it's Schools, but not to its Recreational Zones. Therefore, a Persons prohibited conduct, per Delaware Code -1457(a),could well apply to both a School and a Athletic Field/Recreation Center, or one another, depending the circumstances. Additionally, Parts 1-5 of Paragraph 1 of this Article are included under Delaware Law as School-Zones. Pennsylvania allows carry there, while Delaware's other neighbors: 1. Maryland, and 2. New Jersey do not.

Seemingly though, Juveniles do not have any defense for Firearms/Weapons, per Delaware Code -1457(a). However, Adult possesion is Lawful, contingent, on the Lawfulness of His actions in respect to not Violating any Part of Delaware Code -1457(b)(1) through Delaware Code-1457(b)(6) as it pertains to the underlineing Crimes, namely: Delaware Codes -1442,-1444, -1446, -1448, -1452, and -1453.

Delaware allows Open Carry of a Loaded Firearm/Carried Weapon aslong as the Possesor is nota 'Prohibited Person', per Delaware Code -1448. Therefore, Open Carry in School/Recreation[al]Zone would not be prohibited under Delaware Code -1457(a), as no underlining Offense, as under Delaware Code -1457(b), is being committed.

As for a Personal Opinion of mine... This is a lot better than having a '1000 foot' rule in place bar none, as is the Case in my State of Residence. In my State, a Firearm within a '1000 feet' of any School is an Illegal one, period [less Government Officials, Private Residenses, and Private Properties/Vehicles, of course]. It does not even matter if one has a License or not. Hopefully soon though, this will change.

In fact, Delawares' Flag has a Man with a Rifle. There are only two other States that I know of that Openly display Firearms on their Flags..., but both are Generally Pro-Gun States. They are: 1. Michigan, and 2. West Virginia.
 

Grapeshot

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theschultz wrote:
Does the Federal Law that bans gun possession, say the misdemeanor conviction over a yearm also require Interstate Commerce?



Dave :exclaim::cuss:
Whaaat? Translate and make your question understandable, please.

Yata hey
 

theschultz

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Translate my own words? Funny.

aadvard said "The Federal School Zone Law of 1995, applies to any Public Elementary or Secondary School, as defined under applicable State Law, that provides primary or secondary education to students, as governed under State Law. The Federal Law does not apply to or effect any Post-Secondary Education, namely: 1. Colleges, 2. Universities, 3. Technical Colleges, 4. Adult GED/Literacy Centers, 5. etc.

The term'School Zone' is defined under 18 U.S.C. 921(25)(A) and 18 U.S.C 921(25)(B) means... in, on, or within 1000 feet of a School.

However, 18 U.S.C. 922(q) requires that the Firearm in question must have: '... moved in or otherwise [affected/effected]Interstate Commerce...

The following is the Federal Law I am citing under 18 USC 922


My question is, "Does the law under 18USC922 underlined right below this
text require an element of Interstate Commerce to be enforced?"

Dave

Code:
d) It shall be unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise
dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or
having reasonable cause to believe that such person - 

(1) is under indictment for, or [u]has been convicted in any court
of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one
year;
 
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