My last post here...obviously not welcome...

[Metal_Monkey]

When I came on this evening to post some great OC information/pictures/stories from Lake Alta (near Chelan if I spelled either correctly) I have a PM box will a few telling me I am not aloud to express an opinion on this forum.

I had a rainbow with a slash through it. I have not once personally attacked anyone, yet I am being told by an Administrator named John (with a devil as an advatar) that I need to change it. Another wrote a novel personally attacking me to the point that in person.....would most likely make a little unhappy, but he has the right to talk out his ass, as I have the right to not listen. Now I know of one other guy that is on here that has a "pro-gay" avatar....and he is a pretty decent guy from the little we have exchanged words, posts, etc. He has his belief, which I respect. I may not like ASPECTS of it, but not my choice. Point being I am not aloud to express my opinion in a not threatening or disrespectful way? With an understanding this is the internet and not "America" it still applies seeing how it is in the USA(Washington) and so forth, yet I am told to keep silent.

And for the few people that PMed me with the hate mail.....My best friend was gay(who was a roommate), another best pals brother is gay and some of the coolest people I have ever been around....so before attacking someone...at least know what the hell they are about.

I would like to say to the respectful people I have met in person(if you guys are even around anymore) and on here, I wish you well. I will carry no matter what so I don't HAVE to be here, but it was nice to give the site to people that had no clue about any of the legalities of OC and even CC. I can't in good faith recommend this site no longer. What a shame. In 2+ years this forum has hit some real lows, and I for one am done as well as a few others that rather remain quiet. Please delete this account. I obviously cannot.

For those that live in the Everett/Lynnwood area and so forth that still want to go shooting and such, feel free to email me. I am not angry with anyone. I just don't feel welcome on here and don't care to argue or fight with anyone. A nice debate and what not is fine, but not this B.S. I will find other places to support.

Take care everyone and when I see you guys I'll make sure I wave my pistol in the air and say hi while running through the parking lot

 

[John Pierce]

That would be me (the administrator who asked nicely that you not use the avatar). I did NOT attack you or your beliefs, only ask that you not use that avatar.

A rainbow flag with a slash through it WOULD qualify as a violation of our rules since it is clearly an attack on a group of people having nothing to do with being anti-gun.


John

When I came on this evening to post some great OC information/pictures/stories from Lake Alta (near Chelan if I spelled either correctly) I have a PM box will a few telling me I am not aloud to express an opinion on this forum.

I had a rainbow with a slash through it. I have not once personally attacked anyone, yet I am being told by an Administrator named John (with a devil as an advatar) that I need to change it. Another wrote a novel personally attacking me to the point that in person.....would most likely make a little unhappy, but he has the right to talk out his ass, as I have the right to not listen. Now I know of one other guy that is on here that has a "pro-gay" avatar....and he is a pretty decent guy from the little we have exchanged words, posts, etc. He has his belief, which I respect. I may not like ASPECTS of it, but not my choice. Point being I am not aloud to express my opinion in a not threatening or disrespectful way? With an understanding this is the internet and not "America" it still applies seeing how it is in the USA(Washington) and so forth, yet I am told to keep silent.

And for the few people that PMed me with the hate mail.....My best friend was gay(who was a roommate), another best pals brother is gay and some of the coolest people I have ever been around....so before attacking someone...at least know what the hell they are about.

I would like to say to the respectful people I have met in person(if you guys are even around anymore) and on here, I wish you well. I will carry no matter what so I don't HAVE to be here, but it was nice to give the site to people that had no clue about any of the legalities of OC and even CC. I can't in good faith recommend this site no longer. What a shame. In 2+ years this forum has hit some real lows, and I for one am done as well as a few others that rather remain quiet. Please delete this account. I obviously cannot.

For those that live in the Everett/Lynnwood area and so forth that still want to go shooting and such, feel free to email me. I am not angry with anyone. I just don't feel welcome on here and don't care to argue or fight with anyone. A nice debate and what not is fine, but not this B.S. I will find other places to support.

Take care everyone and when I see you guys I'll make sure I wave my pistol in the air and say hi while running through the parking lot

 

[jbone]

SNIP: Now I know of one other guy that is on here that has a "pro-gay" avatar....

i'ed say you were just forced to submit to another beief while yours was snuffed out. Seems rather one sided and controlling that one form of expression would be banned in the favor of an opposing form of expression. I can only hope in equal fairness the pro-avatar was banned.

 

[gogodawgs]

I'd say you were just forced to submit to another beief while yours was snuffed out. Seems rather one sided and controlling that one form of expression would be banned in the favor of an opposing form of expression. I can only hope in equal fairness the pro-avatar was banned.

I disagree. Being in favor of something is diabolically different than being against an entire group of people that has nothing to do with gun rights. This is not a forum to be against anyone except anti gun people.

 

[gsx1138]

i'ed say you were just forced to submit to another beief while yours was snuffed out. Seems rather one sided and controlling that one form of expression would be banned in the favor of an opposing form of expression. I can only hope in equal fairness the pro-avatar was banned.

I think the difference is that the rainbow with a slash is "against" a certain group of people. Now if he wanted say a cross in his avatar or whatever then, ok.

I don't think there's an issue with expressing a Pro-avatar for what you believe. It only becomes an issue if you are posting a Con-avatar singling out a group or persons that has nothing to do with gun rights.


edited for gogodawgs: Get out of my head man!

 

[gogodawgs]

I think the difference is that the rainbow with a slash is "against" a certain group of people. Now if he wanted say a cross in his avatar or whatever then, ok.

I don't think there's an issue with expressing a Pro-avatar for what you believe. It only becomes an issue if you are posting a Con-avatar singling out a group or persons that has nothing to do with gun rights.


edited for gogodawgs: Get out of my head man!

great minds.....

With certain restrictions....I wouldn't recommend 'pro' avatars of swastikas or the like...

 

[John Pierce]

I did not make ANYONE change their beliefs. I just asked that an avatar, which violated one of the forum rules, not be used. I also did not disparage him or his beliefs.


John

i'ed say you were just forced to submit to another beief while yours was snuffed out. Seems rather one sided and controlling that one form of expression would be banned in the favor of an opposing form of expression. I can only hope in equal fairness the pro-avatar was banned.

 

[DCKilla]

What about a swastica flag with a slash through that? What about a rival college teams logo with a slash through it. What about a kid urinating on a GM logo? Would you ask that these be removed? Where do you draw the line? You have to admit that this is stupid.

That would be me (the administrator who asked nicely that you not use the avatar). I did NOT attack you or your beliefs, only ask that you not use that avatar.

A rainbow flag with a slash through it WOULD qualify as a violation of our rules since it is clearly an attack on a group of people having nothing to do with being anti-gun.


John

 

[Grapeshot]

i'ed say you were just forced to submit to another beief while yours was snuffed out. Seems rather one sided and controlling that one form of expression would be banned in the favor of an opposing form of expression. I can only hope in equal fairness the pro-avatar was banned.

I would say that he had been asked to follow "house rules" - there are others. This is not a publicly owned, anything goes site. Rather it is a privately owned and specifically targeted domain with guidelines, rules and standards. Don't know why anybody would have a problem with that.

 

[John Pierce]

Well said!!! As Gogodawgs pointed out, the only exception to this would be a 'pro' avatar that represented a disrespectful position itself.

Thanks for helping out in explaining this guys!


John

I think the difference is that the rainbow with a slash is "against" a certain group of people. Now if he wanted say a cross in his avatar or whatever then, ok.

I don't think there's an issue with expressing a Pro-avatar for what you believe. It only becomes an issue if you are posting a Con-avatar singling out a group or persons that has nothing to do with gun rights.

 

[gogodawgs]

What about a swastica flag with a slash through that? What about a rival college teams logo with a slash through it. What about a kid urinating on a GM logo? Would you ask that these be removed? Where do you draw the line? You have to admit that this is stupid.

I think you are comparing apples and oranges. Common sense can be applied here.

However, if the adminastrators of the forum ask you to change your avatar then you have crossed the line. It is their forum, they pay the bills. We are their guests.

 

[John Pierce]

Good point. None of those would run afoul of my personal filter. And you knew that because you used specific examples that you knew were okay.

A swastika with a slash through it is a rejection of a hateful idea and therefore is not a violation of the HATE IS NOT WELCOME HERE RULE. A slash through a competing sports team does not imply hate but only good natured fun. And GM is not a person or group of people.

Make sense?


John

What about a swastica flag with a slash through that? What about a rival college teams logo with a slash through it. What about a kid urinating on a GM logo? Would you ask that these be removed? Where do you draw the line? You have to admit that this is stupid.

 

[Metal_Monkey]

I will show you what I have told John here. If you don't agree, so be it. I am just deleting messages and what not and I will be gone in a few mins for good.

"I am done and getting rid of what I can. A devil dressed as Jesus is just as bad as you say in your post on my last post. You are attacking religious people and/or groups like it or not. Yes you asked me nicely(Another was one that really sent some angry stuff). You are just showing a level of hypocrisy and it makes me not feel welcome.

-Metal"

 

[Citizen]

It is a complex, tricky, potentially volatile subject, to be sure. But, my first reaction is that this is much ado about little.

From a simple view, perhaps too simple, if we allow a username like BigGayAl, I think it unfair to disallow a simple slash/rainbow avatar.

I think GSX1138 is a little too narrow in his view that such avatar is an attack on people. I can just as easily be a an expression of mere disagreement with sodomy. Or, merely an advocacy to stop something to do with gays. Any "attack" has to be read into it by the viewer.

I would tend to advocate letting such avatar remain. That, or also forbid pro-gay avatars and usernames.

But, truthfully, we've always gotten along without sexuality being an issue. I remember one gay making playful anti-straight comments here. Everybody knew it was playful. Nobody was so sensitive as to get upset.

Of course, if pro-gay usernames are forbidden, then GSX1138 has to change his, also, since it is so obviously a hidden promotion for gay sex.

 

[DCKilla]

I know my questions were pretty far fetched. I also agree this is a privately owned forum and I respect the rules and the adminastrator's reasons for the avatar change.

I think you are comparing apples and oranges. Common sense can be applied here.

However, if the adminastrators of the forum ask you to change your avatar then you have crossed the line. It is their forum, they pay the bills. We are their guests.

 

[Grapeshot]

Really not necessary Metal_Monkey

Don't think anyone here is personally upset with or attacking you.

Why don't you put things in perspective, have a another cup of coffee and come back in the morning?
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/member.php?33375-Metal_Monkey

 

[John Pierce]

And what I responded was:

My avatar is NOT a devil dressed as Jesus. I personally would be offended by such a thing! It is a devil with a halo cocked across one horn and a roman toga and sandals on.

It was drawn by an artist friend of mine who used my face as a template. The piece was supposed to represent the equal parts saint, sinner and humanity that we all are made of. It may not translate well when shrunk to avatar size but it is not intended to disparage Christianity at all!!!

I will show you what I have told John here. If you don't agree, so be it. I am just deleting messages and what not and I will be gone in a few mins for good.

"I am done and getting rid of what I can. A devil dressed as Jesus is just as bad as you say in your post on my last post. You are attacking religious people and/or groups like it or not. Yes you asked me nicely(Another was one that really sent some angry stuff). You are just showing a level of hypocrisy and it makes me not feel welcome.

-Metal"

 

[gogodawgs]

Really not necessary Metal_Monkey

Don't think anyone here is personally upset with or attacking you.

Why don't you put things in perspective, have a another cup of coffee and come back in the morning?

This I would concur. I am a high school basketball referee. Many coaches get mad at me during the course of a game and want my hide. After 20 years of officiating games I simply tell the coach to sleep on it and write a letter to the board of officials. This usually solves the coaches emotions as upon reflection we all tend to learn and respect anothers point of view.

 

[DCKilla]

Maybe this thread should be moved from the Washington forum or deleted. It should have never been discussed in a public forum, IMO of course.

 

[John Pierce]

Others have PMed me about deleting it but I do not want to 'disappear' a thread discussing a member's concerns about my enforcement of the rules.

I don't want to appear like Rep Rangel now do I?


John

Maybe this thread should be moved from the Washington forum or deleted. It should have never been discussed in a public forum, IMO of course.