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Muslim shop owner has no problem with my open carry

Tawnos

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Notice the lack of modifiers? No "most," no "some," no "many," etc. Looks like painting to me. :D
Then you are colorblind to the difference. I said that Christians were the actors who engaged in a particular activity. That is a true statement, as is the fact that I have only witnessed pursuit of Sharia-like laws and other similar actions in our system of governance from Christians. That doesn't mean all Christians support that, but that out of people to watch out for imposing religious decree, I'm presently more concerned about Christians than Muslims based on the actions of each group. Nothing in that means that I think all Christians want to impose their religion upon me, and it certainly doesn't mean I'm painting all Christians as the same. It's simply a matter of which group has members actively acting towards a particular goal. I haven't seen Muslims doing what Deros claimed, but I have seen Christians. Not _all_ Christians, but "Christians" is an accurate description of those who have acted.

See, now this is why I was reluctant to get into this discussion in "public" in the first place. I was having a nice two-way conversation with marshaul until you came along with your superior attitude, cutesy cartoons, and borderline bigotry towards Christians (I have avoided espousing any particular religion for the purposes of this discussion, until now). Y'know, it's ironic. Change some of the words around and you argue just like some of the Evangelicals I've traded words with from time to time.
Care to explain, besides claiming indignation? You could demonstrate how the cartoon is false, explain how my attitude is superior, and not merely versed in fact and demanding of evidence, or you could try having a "conversation" that doesn't make asinine presumptions (as you did when you claimed what an atheist is, why there aren't "true atheists", why atheism is a religion or a faith, etc).

So no, just based on your attitude I cede nothing at this point.
You would have to actually engage a point at some time for that to hold true. Unless you're taking the equivalent of "la la la I can't hear you" because you dislike that I demand evidence and don't take "I feel it's true" to be any more than a claim of questionable sanity.

From my perspective, the existence of a Supreme Being (God, Supreme Architect, Creator, whatever you wish to call it) is as blindingly obvious and undeniable as the sun in the sky. Now, a crafty debating might get me to change my thinking on the nature of that sun, but to convince me that it does not exist when it's just plainly THERE is going to take an L of alot more "evidence" than you have presented here. You'd have to overrule the evidence of my own spiritual and mental experiences on the matter, which you'll have a very difficult time in doing, since you're not me and have not experienced as I have. And just for the record, nowhere did I deny that such things do not involve chemical reactions, they are not mere reactions, but are merely the vehicle for something Greater.
See above. Claims from personal revelation are nothing more than invitations to question your perception as being faulty. If I tell you that I have a unicorn servant who talks to me and helps me solve programming problems, would you believe such a being exists? What if I said that "it is as blindingly obvious and undeniable as the sun in the sky." Would that convince you that the being exists? Why or why not?

See, the thing here is you and I are actually the same. We are both convinced of the superiority of our own ideas, and damn stubborn on the matter. I assure you I have already gone through my own "open-minded, skeptical approach" to the evidence at hand, and being that I have come to exactly the opposite conclusion on the matter as you, should serve to demonstrate exactly how inconclusive and ambiguous your "evidence" really is.
We're different in that I will change my view based on evidence that cannot be rectified in a consistent and logical manner - that is, a manner that does not require special pleading. You can not assure me that you've undertaken such an approach when your previous paragraph belies a lack of rigor in investigating evidence versus feelings. You may feel something is true, or right, or whatever, but without evidence, it's an unsubstantiated claim, and does not hold up to open-minded, skeptical inquiry.
 

gsx1138

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May 14, 2008
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Bremerton, Washington, United States
I was stating that there are two different sets of 10 commandments. The creation myth is mish mash of Babylonian and Sumurian tales. Hence the disconnect in the very first book of the Bible. That doesn't bother me nearly as much because I haven't seen anyone wanting to put the creation story in a courthouse.

I highly recommend this series of videos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlnnWbkMlbg&feature=related

It is deeper into Christianity than many Ministers delve but it is close to the same line of study that I was doing before my deconversion.


edited to add: That picture is a little 'in your face' but as previously stated there were outlandish claims made about atheists. Can we at least remain civil while staying completely off topic. :)
 
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Flyer22

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Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
And which set of 10 commandments? There are two different sets of 10 commandments in the Bible.

Absolutely dead wrong. First of all, there may have been a great deal more than just the 10 Commandments on the stone tables.

Secondly, the 10 Commandments are recorded only once, in Exodus 20. There are numerous places where some of the commandments are repeated, and amplified, and otherwise expounded upon, but there is only one full list. I daresay that it's this partial repetition that leads careless readers to conclude that the list is repeated.

Thirdly, the text very plainly states that the second tables contained the same information as the first tables. Exodus 34:1 (emphasis added)--

"And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest."

And lastly, you'll go much farther in your arguments against the Bible if you quit willfully ignoring the evidence that is so readily apparent. Not that you'll get very far in any case, except to people who are ignorant of the Bible, but at least you'll have somewhat intellectually honest arguments.
 

Tawnos

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Absolutely dead wrong. First of all, there may have been a great deal more than just the 10 Commandments on the stone tables.

Secondly, the 10 Commandments are recorded only once, in Exodus 20. There are numerous places where some of the commandments are repeated, and amplified, and otherwise expounded upon, but there is only one full list. I daresay that it's this partial repetition that leads careless readers to conclude that the list is repeated.
What is Deut 5, chopped liver?

And lastly, you'll go much farther in your arguments against the Bible if you quit willfully ignoring the evidence that is so readily apparent. Not that you'll get very far in any case, except to people who are ignorant of the Bible, but at least you'll have somewhat intellectually honest arguments.
So, how much do you know of the Bible? What about other religious texts?
 

Tawnos

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Wonder if there will be any survivors from this train wreck.....................

i-like-where-this-thread-is-going.jpg
 

TechnoWeenie

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[video=youtube;CSe38dzJYkY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSe38dzJYkY&feature=related[/video]
 

Tawnos

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Uh huh. And how about the Stalinist purges of the atheist soviet union?


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Any time I see someone try to bring this up, I facepalm. First, nobody claimed being an atheist makes you a good person. Second, was the purge done in the name of atheism, as the Crusades were done in the name of Christianity? To save you the time looking it up: no, they weren't. The purges were done by in name of a political ideology, communism, which is distinct from religion. Whether the actor were atheist or Christian, it would not alter the reason those purges were done. Moreover, though terrible, Stalin didn't attempt to justify the validity of his murders by saying he didn't believe in a god, so there was no repercussions. On the flip side, throughout history, religions have justified their killings because it was what their god(s) command(s). You need to make an apples to apples comparison before you can make a point.
 

Metalhead47

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South Whidbey, Washington, USA
I would argue that the crusades, and all "religious" injustices for that matter really had absolutely nothing to do with religion, that it wAs merely a pretext for other motives, but I presume you'd have a retort to that as well, yes?

(funny how no one ever seems to mention the jihads between the crusades that retook the lands, or how the muslims conquered what had been Byzantine Christian lands in the first place...)


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Tawnos

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I would argue that the crusades, and all "religious" injustices for that matter really had absolutely nothing to do with religion, that it wAs merely a pretext for other motives, but I presume you'd have a retort to that as well, yes?

(funny how no one ever seems to mention the jihads between the crusades that retook the lands, or how the muslims conquered what had been Byzantine Christian lands in the first place...)


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You could argue that, but you'd need to provide quite the scholarly research and evidence.

I have no problem with mentioning the wars undertaken by the Muslims to retake the lands. They did it in the name of their religion as well, and it was yet another instance where religion was the justification and reason for slaughter. Other examples throughout history include the Salem witch trials, Hindu-Muslim religious killings, the bombings or shootings of abortion providers, et cetera. All of these undertaken in the name of religion.

All of these stand in stark contrast to your earlier attempt to associate atheism with the Stalinist purges.
 
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