macgulley
Regular Member
imported post
kingfish wrote:
kingfish wrote:
Wives with a 38 full of hydra-shoks always count!
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Moving to Alabama (Auburn)
- Thread starter Kingfish
- Start date
UTOC-45-44
Regular Member
imported post
macgulley wrote:...:lol:
macgulley wrote:
This Thread can go VERY wrong with comments that are being made...:what:...kingfish wrote:Wives with a 38 full of hydra-shoks always count!
...:lol:Whind Soull
New member
imported post
Hello Kingfish!
My name is Will, and I live in Auburn.
For ranges, your best bet is the Tuskegee range, in/near the Tuskegee National Forest. It's a 100 yard un-manned range with benches under a roof. A day-pass is two bucks, and can be gotten at a bunch of local places.
I'm 18, so I don't have a permit yet, but here is what a LEO friend told me:
The Sheriff, Jay Jones, is generally good about issuing permits, even though it's a "may" area. It has to be concealed. When you get the permit, you have to sign that you agree not to keep the handgun loaded when in a vehicle, although there is no actual law enforcing it (all they could do is revoke). Carrying a rifle or shotgun in a vehicle, it has to be unloaded, nothing else matters (concealed/open, in/out of reach, etc.), but that you can have ammo lying right next to it.
If you have any other questions, just PM me!
Hope that helps,
--Will
PS - We should go to the range together sometime!
Hello Kingfish!
My name is Will, and I live in Auburn.
For ranges, your best bet is the Tuskegee range, in/near the Tuskegee National Forest. It's a 100 yard un-manned range with benches under a roof. A day-pass is two bucks, and can be gotten at a bunch of local places.
I'm 18, so I don't have a permit yet, but here is what a LEO friend told me:
The Sheriff, Jay Jones, is generally good about issuing permits, even though it's a "may" area. It has to be concealed. When you get the permit, you have to sign that you agree not to keep the handgun loaded when in a vehicle, although there is no actual law enforcing it (all they could do is revoke). Carrying a rifle or shotgun in a vehicle, it has to be unloaded, nothing else matters (concealed/open, in/out of reach, etc.), but that you can have ammo lying right next to it.
If you have any other questions, just PM me!
Hope that helps,
--Will
PS - We should go to the range together sometime!
kurtmax_0
Regular Member
imported post
Hell. I'd rather not get a permit and just open carry a rifle.....
Thankfully my residence isn't in Lee county. So the Sheriff here has no way to enforce his little 'rules'.
I would also think his rules wouldn't hold up in court. I'm sure a judge would find that additional restrictions on long arms wouldn't be proper for a pistol permit....
While AL is a may issue state, it doesn't give total discretion to the Sheriff. The only problem is: there is no case that gives a clear cut of what a Sheriff can and cannot do, so it's a gray area.
Hell. I'd rather not get a permit and just open carry a rifle.....
Thankfully my residence isn't in Lee county. So the Sheriff here has no way to enforce his little 'rules'.
I would also think his rules wouldn't hold up in court. I'm sure a judge would find that additional restrictions on long arms wouldn't be proper for a pistol permit....
While AL is a may issue state, it doesn't give total discretion to the Sheriff. The only problem is: there is no case that gives a clear cut of what a Sheriff can and cannot do, so it's a gray area.
Kingfish
Regular Member
imported post
Whind Soull wrote:
What the hell....Can't carry a loaded gun in a vehicle?
Where does this guy get off?
Anyone want to sponsor my campain for Sheriff...Just kidding, but only slightly so.
Whind Soull wrote:
What the hell....Can't carry a loaded gun in a vehicle?
Where does this guy get off?
Anyone want to sponsor my campain for Sheriff...Just kidding, but only slightly so.
macgulley
Regular Member
imported post
Whind Soull wrote
I'm pretty sure I didn't sign any such thing when I got my permit.
All reports I have heard about Jay Jones have been positive.
Whind Soull wrote
I'm pretty sure I didn't sign any such thing when I got my permit.
All reports I have heard about Jay Jones have been positive.
Kingfish
Regular Member
imported post
macgulley wrote:
Can anyone confirm Lee County's car carry policy?
macgulley wrote:
Can anyone confirm Lee County's car carry policy?
imported post
I am not going to get into the AL OC issue again other than to say that there are at least three, long detailed threads on the subject. Suffice it to say that there is a difference of opinion. If you do OC, don't be surprised if you are stopped and/or arrested. Remember that none of the keyboard lawyers are going to be there to help you. Alabama is in real need of cleaning up its laws. The statutes and the court cases are inconsistent, vague, ambiguous and sometimes contradict each other.
With regard to residency - ask yourself what your intent is. Are you in AL just while your wife is in school or do you plan to stay in AL? How long? There are many options but they depend upon what you want to do. Whatever you do, don't try to be cute and play it both ways. You can be a legal resident of only one state at any given time. There is no one thing (DL, taxes, etc.) that is determinative.
I am not going to get into the AL OC issue again other than to say that there are at least three, long detailed threads on the subject. Suffice it to say that there is a difference of opinion. If you do OC, don't be surprised if you are stopped and/or arrested. Remember that none of the keyboard lawyers are going to be there to help you. Alabama is in real need of cleaning up its laws. The statutes and the court cases are inconsistent, vague, ambiguous and sometimes contradict each other.
With regard to residency - ask yourself what your intent is. Are you in AL just while your wife is in school or do you plan to stay in AL? How long? There are many options but they depend upon what you want to do. Whatever you do, don't try to be cute and play it both ways. You can be a legal resident of only one state at any given time. There is no one thing (DL, taxes, etc.) that is determinative.
Kingfish
Regular Member
imported post
apjonas wrote:
apjonas wrote:
Um....I am fully aware of the ramifications of OCing in Alabama and have no plans to do so.
You make a good point. I have every intention of leaving Alabama when the wife graduates. However, there is nowhere in Tennessee I could claim is my "permanent" address.
ProguninTN
Regular Member
imported post
Whind Soull wrote:
How long has Sheriff Jones have this "no loaded guns in vehicles" stipulation ?
I ask because I have a friend who obtained a permit in Lee County in 2006 and there was no such stipulation. I actually have a copy of the form he was given and that does not appear on it. Was this added in 2007 ?
ProguninTN
Whind Soull wrote:
How long has Sheriff Jones have this "no loaded guns in vehicles" stipulation ?
I ask because I have a friend who obtained a permit in Lee County in 2006 and there was no such stipulation. I actually have a copy of the form he was given and that does not appear on it. Was this added in 2007 ?
ProguninTN
Kingfish
Regular Member
imported post
ProguninTN wrote:
We will find out in 3-5 days when my wife goes to pick up her permit.
That is we will find out if it is true now or not.
ProguninTN wrote:
We will find out in 3-5 days when my wife goes to pick up her permit.
That is we will find out if it is true now or not.
imported post
I've known Jay for years and this is the first I've heard about not being able to carry loaded in your car.
The permit is pretty clear on open carry. The front under your name and address says, "License to carry a pistol concealed on the person or in a vehicle is hereby granted."
Open it up, turn it over and look on the back left, "This pistol permit is hereby granted to carry a pistol concealed on the person or in a vehicle for self protection". If you put "because I can" as your request reason then it would say, "This pistol permit is hereby granted to carry a pistol concealed on the person or in a vehicle for because I can".
Look on the right at:
1. This pistol permit does not permit you to carry a gun openly.
I lived in Auburn from 1999-2004. I've been back for almost a year. Like I've said, I've known Jay Jones for a LONG time. He's a great person and a great Sheriff that has done a LOT for Lee County in terms of raising federal funds and providing top notch facilities and training for the deputies (the plasma's in their opps room that GPS track the squad cars are awesome).
County is great. Now Auburn City is completely different. I've had several friends that have come in and out of that department. It's largely inept and arguably corrupt. Actually more like grossly inept. APD hasn’t solved a serious crime (rape, murder, etc) in close to 20 years and largely exists to direct traffic on game days for the University and Auburn High along with policing DUI. I could tell stories that would scare you but that’s irrelevant. All I’ll say is to just follow what your permit says. Even if you’re right, the Judges here will rule with the Chief and the public.
I've known Jay for years and this is the first I've heard about not being able to carry loaded in your car.
The permit is pretty clear on open carry. The front under your name and address says, "License to carry a pistol concealed on the person or in a vehicle is hereby granted."
Open it up, turn it over and look on the back left, "This pistol permit is hereby granted to carry a pistol concealed on the person or in a vehicle for self protection". If you put "because I can" as your request reason then it would say, "This pistol permit is hereby granted to carry a pistol concealed on the person or in a vehicle for because I can".
Look on the right at:
1. This pistol permit does not permit you to carry a gun openly.
I lived in Auburn from 1999-2004. I've been back for almost a year. Like I've said, I've known Jay Jones for a LONG time. He's a great person and a great Sheriff that has done a LOT for Lee County in terms of raising federal funds and providing top notch facilities and training for the deputies (the plasma's in their opps room that GPS track the squad cars are awesome).
County is great. Now Auburn City is completely different. I've had several friends that have come in and out of that department. It's largely inept and arguably corrupt. Actually more like grossly inept. APD hasn’t solved a serious crime (rape, murder, etc) in close to 20 years and largely exists to direct traffic on game days for the University and Auburn High along with policing DUI. I could tell stories that would scare you but that’s irrelevant. All I’ll say is to just follow what your permit says. Even if you’re right, the Judges here will rule with the Chief and the public.
vmathis12019
State Researcher
imported post
Not to get into police bashing (which can be fun sometimes), but I too live in a college town just about 2 hours down Highway 29 from Auburn, and I can concur that it seems that even though there is a ridiculously high volume of police officers in this town, it seems they are only here to deal with the problems that college students present. And I won't even touch the issue of the campus police.
Even the Sheriff's department is questionable around here. I went with a buddy of mine to the Pike County SD one day this past spring so he could apply for a pistol permit, and the officers at the SD wouldn't even allow him to apply as he was not 21. Now I know it's up to the discretion of the sheriff, but everywhere else that I know of in AL allows it at 18. Oh well.
I'm glad you are back in Alabama, the greatest place in the world! However, it is a true true tragedy that you made your residence in Auburn. Hopefully, you will find a way to escape the insanity and join what I like to call, the rest of Alabama. Roll Tide kingfish!!!
As far as an indoor range goes, it would be a good little drive for you, but I shoot at the Ordinance Depot in Daleville. It's a wonderfully designed, and very professionally run 25 yd. Pistol range (rifles and carbines allowed; no black powder and no shotshells). It is also one of the absolute best tactical stores around. Most places you can buy guns and ammo around here are either pawn shops or hunting shops. No cool gear. But this place, and also Po Boy's Guns and Ammo in Dothan are great shops(where I bought my XD from).
Not to get into police bashing (which can be fun sometimes), but I too live in a college town just about 2 hours down Highway 29 from Auburn, and I can concur that it seems that even though there is a ridiculously high volume of police officers in this town, it seems they are only here to deal with the problems that college students present. And I won't even touch the issue of the campus police.
Even the Sheriff's department is questionable around here. I went with a buddy of mine to the Pike County SD one day this past spring so he could apply for a pistol permit, and the officers at the SD wouldn't even allow him to apply as he was not 21. Now I know it's up to the discretion of the sheriff, but everywhere else that I know of in AL allows it at 18. Oh well.
I'm glad you are back in Alabama, the greatest place in the world! However, it is a true true tragedy that you made your residence in Auburn. Hopefully, you will find a way to escape the insanity and join what I like to call, the rest of Alabama. Roll Tide kingfish!!!
As far as an indoor range goes, it would be a good little drive for you, but I shoot at the Ordinance Depot in Daleville. It's a wonderfully designed, and very professionally run 25 yd. Pistol range (rifles and carbines allowed; no black powder and no shotshells). It is also one of the absolute best tactical stores around. Most places you can buy guns and ammo around here are either pawn shops or hunting shops. No cool gear. But this place, and also Po Boy's Guns and Ammo in Dothan are great shops(where I bought my XD from).
Kingfish
Regular Member
imported post
KWKSLVR wrote:
http://www.ago.alabama.gov/oldopinions/8400205.pdf
Question: "Is a person required to have a permit to carry a pistol when he is afoot and the pistol is being carried in an unconcealed manner?...."
Answer: "Your inquiry numbered one is answered, no. Looney vs State, cited in your inquiry. This opinion states: "Thus, a permit is not required when a person afoot carries an unconcealed pistol."
Question : "May a person carry an unlicensed and unconcealed pistol anywhere either on his property, or on the public highways, public property, or on the land of another?"
Answer: "You second question is answered, yes, generally, however, "anywhere" is a broad term. There may be individual or special restrictions, for example: air-line passenger planes, etc., sports stadiums; landlords or residents may exclude licensees or invitees who do not comply with their rules prohibiting firearms."
I will be happy to get you a copy if you can't print one.
Please tell me you are not saying we should just follow these unfair and unlawful orders and any others the sheriff wants to impose without question?
I am not saying we will not comply (for now) but to ask us to keep our mouths shut (if that is what you are saying) aint gonna happen.
KWKSLVR wrote:
Well, can you ask him why he is ignoring our RIGHT to open carry? Next time you sit down for a steak could you ask him why he is not following attorney generals opinion 84-205
http://www.ago.alabama.gov/oldopinions/8400205.pdf
Question: "Is a person required to have a permit to carry a pistol when he is afoot and the pistol is being carried in an unconcealed manner?...."
Answer: "Your inquiry numbered one is answered, no. Looney vs State, cited in your inquiry. This opinion states: "Thus, a permit is not required when a person afoot carries an unconcealed pistol."
Question : "May a person carry an unlicensed and unconcealed pistol anywhere either on his property, or on the public highways, public property, or on the land of another?"
Answer: "You second question is answered, yes, generally, however, "anywhere" is a broad term. There may be individual or special restrictions, for example: air-line passenger planes, etc., sports stadiums; landlords or residents may exclude licensees or invitees who do not comply with their rules prohibiting firearms."
I will be happy to get you a copy if you can't print one.
Please tell me you are not saying we should just follow these unfair and unlawful orders and any others the sheriff wants to impose without question?
I am not saying we will not comply (for now) but to ask us to keep our mouths shut (if that is what you are saying) aint gonna happen.
Kingfish
Regular Member
imported post
Might ask him why he prints other things like no school carry on the permit when Alabama code SPECIFICALLY excludes permit holders from the restrictions.
Might ask him why he prints other things like no school carry on the permit when Alabama code SPECIFICALLY excludes permit holders from the restrictions.
macgulley
Regular Member
imported post
I see no prohibition of open carry printed on my permit. It says "this permit does not permit you to carry a gun openly." It does not say you cannot carry openly, only that this permit is not for that purpose. I see it as a backhanded way of discouraging open carry but it in no way removes any rights you might have under the state constitution.
I see no prohibition of open carry printed on my permit. It says "this permit does not permit you to carry a gun openly." It does not say you cannot carry openly, only that this permit is not for that purpose. I see it as a backhanded way of discouraging open carry but it in no way removes any rights you might have under the state constitution.
imported post
Each county is allowed to tweak the terms of your carry permit. For example, in Lee County there's no CCW allowed in any establishment that serves alcohol for consumption on the premises. In Shelby County you can CCW as long as you aren't consuming alcohol in those places. Part of the reason for that is because Lee County is a college town and the Voter's/M.A.D.D demanded it. Your sheriff is an elected official. Voter issues will always sway decisions. If you think open carry is going to go over well in a bar in Lee County then you're off your rocker.
I don't know what the average age here is, it doesn't really matter. I’m young and I've done a lot of CCW in off limit places in my life. Many have. I do a bit of open carry too from private land to walking to the mailbox at night. But at the end of the day I choose not to draw attention to myself or walk into an establishment that might result in my arrest, wrongfully or not. Personally, at my age I don't have the time to spend in jail and court nor do I particularly feel like parting with the cash for an attorney over a situation that could have been easily avoided. What I’m saying is that here in Lee County you’re going to do 2 things by open carrying:
1) End up in jail. Whether it’s wrongful or not doesn’t change the outcome.
2) End up on the local news with the only result being the local community looking down on handguns and the entire issue of carry even more than many here already do. It’s the same reason why the follow up to vmathis’ situation hasn’t been printed yet. Politics.
Do I believe in open carry? Yes. Do I believe that it’s a right? Yes. But again, there are very few places where I’d do it because personally I choose not to end up with cuffs and a 2 minutes segment on the local news. Again, that’s a personal decision.
Those of you that live in Lee County – Go by and ask Jay your questions. His door is always open.
Each county is allowed to tweak the terms of your carry permit. For example, in Lee County there's no CCW allowed in any establishment that serves alcohol for consumption on the premises. In Shelby County you can CCW as long as you aren't consuming alcohol in those places. Part of the reason for that is because Lee County is a college town and the Voter's/M.A.D.D demanded it. Your sheriff is an elected official. Voter issues will always sway decisions. If you think open carry is going to go over well in a bar in Lee County then you're off your rocker.
I don't know what the average age here is, it doesn't really matter. I’m young and I've done a lot of CCW in off limit places in my life. Many have. I do a bit of open carry too from private land to walking to the mailbox at night. But at the end of the day I choose not to draw attention to myself or walk into an establishment that might result in my arrest, wrongfully or not. Personally, at my age I don't have the time to spend in jail and court nor do I particularly feel like parting with the cash for an attorney over a situation that could have been easily avoided. What I’m saying is that here in Lee County you’re going to do 2 things by open carrying:
1) End up in jail. Whether it’s wrongful or not doesn’t change the outcome.
2) End up on the local news with the only result being the local community looking down on handguns and the entire issue of carry even more than many here already do. It’s the same reason why the follow up to vmathis’ situation hasn’t been printed yet. Politics.
Do I believe in open carry? Yes. Do I believe that it’s a right? Yes. But again, there are very few places where I’d do it because personally I choose not to end up with cuffs and a 2 minutes segment on the local news.
Again, that’s a personal decision. Those of you that live in Lee County – Go by and ask Jay your questions. His door is always open.
vmathis12019
State Researcher
imported post
KWKSLVR wrote:
Just a little FYI for anyone interested that hasn't seent it yet, the follow up news story printed in the Andalusia Star was not posted on the Newspaper's website. It WAS printed, and I received a copy of it from the paper a couple of days ago and posted it under the "Man Arrested for Open Carry" thread. Go check it out!
KWKSLVR wrote:
Just a little FYI for anyone interested that hasn't seent it yet, the follow up news story printed in the Andalusia Star was not posted on the Newspaper's website. It WAS printed, and I received a copy of it from the paper a couple of days ago and posted it under the "Man Arrested for Open Carry" thread. Go check it out!
Comp-tech
State Researcher
imported post
KWKSLVR wrote:
Section 11-80-11(a) No county or municipal corporation, instrumentality, or political subdivision thereof, by ordinance, resolution, or other enactment, shall regulate in any manner gun shows, the possession, ownership, transport, carrying,....
Section 11-45-1.1Subject matter of handguns reserved to State Legislature; power of municipality to adopt certain ordinances; concurrent jurisdiction of municipal courts with district courts. No incorporated municipality shall have the power to enact any ordinance, rule, or regulation which shall tax, restrict, prevent, or in any way affect the possession or ownership of handguns by the citizens of this state. The entire subject matter of handguns is reserved to the State Legislature. This section shall not be construed to limit or restrict the power of a municipality to adopt ordinances which make the violation of a state handgun law a violation of a municipal ordinance to the same extent as other state law violations, or to limit or restrict the power of a municipal court to exercise concurrent jurisdiction with the district court over violations of state handgun laws which may be prosecuted as breaches of a municipal ordinance.
KWKSLVR wrote:
While they may do it....it is not allowed by law......in fact they are prevented, BY STATE LAW, from adding any such restrictions.Each county is allowed to tweak the terms of your carry permit. For example, in Lee County there's no CCW allowed in any establishment that serves alcohol for consumption on the premises. In Shelby County you can CCW as long as you aren't consuming alcohol in those places. Part of the reason for that is because Lee County is a college town and the Voter's/M.A.D.D demanded it. Your sheriff is an elected official. Voter issues will always sway decisions. If you think open carry is going to go over well in a bar in Lee County then you're off your rocker.
I don't know what the average age here is, it doesn't really matter. I’m young and I've done a lot of CCW in off limit places in my life. Many have. I do a bit of open carry too from private land to walking to the mailbox at night. But at the end of the day I choose not to draw attention to myself or walk into an establishment that might result in my arrest, wrongfully or not. Personally, at my age I don't have the time to spend in jail and court nor do I particularly feel like parting with the cash for an attorney over a situation that could have been easily avoided. What I’m saying is that here in Lee County you’re going to do 2 things by open carrying:
1) End up in jail. Whether it’s wrongful or not doesn’t change the outcome.
2) End up on the local news with the only result being the local community looking down on handguns and the entire issue of carry even more than many here already do. It’s the same reason why the follow up to vmathis’ situation hasn’t been printed yet. Politics.
Do I believe in open carry? Yes. Do I believe that it’s a right? Yes. But again, there are very few places where I’d do it because personally I choose not to end up with cuffs and a 2 minutes segment on the local news.
Those of you that live in Lee County – Go by and ask Jay your questions. His door is always open.
Section 11-80-11(a) No county or municipal corporation, instrumentality, or political subdivision thereof, by ordinance, resolution, or other enactment, shall regulate in any manner gun shows, the possession, ownership, transport, carrying,....
Section 11-45-1.1Subject matter of handguns reserved to State Legislature; power of municipality to adopt certain ordinances; concurrent jurisdiction of municipal courts with district courts. No incorporated municipality shall have the power to enact any ordinance, rule, or regulation which shall tax, restrict, prevent, or in any way affect the possession or ownership of handguns by the citizens of this state. The entire subject matter of handguns is reserved to the State Legislature. This section shall not be construed to limit or restrict the power of a municipality to adopt ordinances which make the violation of a state handgun law a violation of a municipal ordinance to the same extent as other state law violations, or to limit or restrict the power of a municipal court to exercise concurrent jurisdiction with the district court over violations of state handgun laws which may be prosecuted as breaches of a municipal ordinance.