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Missouri CCW at 18?

OC for ME

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I am not presuming. Even after all of the discussion, I am not convinced/sold on the legality.

Have previously said that IMO it will come down to a court of law to render a decision and that I hope he is proven right. Wished him well too.

The Missouri legislature could have included the phrase "or with a recognized/accepted permit from another state, regardless of age of issuance" - It did not, which leads me to legislative intent and to believe the legislators did not intend to leave that door wide open for residents of Missouri. OTOH - you may have found a legal loophole. Good luck/best wishes in demonstrating that.
I provided the cite(s) to the statute and the legislatures intent is in the statute language.

What if there is not a court case...ever? What can we deduce from a non-occurrence?
 

OC for ME

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It is not a issue of prejudice. They are trained that CC is only legal for licensed people 19 and over. Do you suppose that Mo. LEO are taught that the Maine license is an exception? Some will just do what they always do, cite or arrest because the suspect is underage. If they bother to look up the law they are going to get no help, as we have all seen here. Do you expect them all to just take the suspects word for it? The chances of detection and this becoming an issue are very small, but the question was asked and I am not surprised that there is a disparity of opinions.

The question of "intent" has been brought up. Does anyone think that the Mo. legislature "intended" to carve out an exception for 18 yo residents of far off Maine and then did not make it explicit that hey had done so. This is an oversight and nothing more. CC laws of most states have a disclaimer such as "all state's CC license are honored subject to the laws of this state", or something similar to that. I see that Mo. has not done that. Would anyone argue that any other provision of an out of state license supersedes the laws of Mo. For example, if a Mo. CC license does not allow carry in a courthouse, but a Maine license does. Would anyone argue that a person could carry in a MO courthouse with a Maine license? I doubt that many would do that, even though the statute makes no mention of it. Someday a person will become famous when a Mo. court decision is named after them when this is settled. Just like Terry v Ohio; by the way Terry, went to prison.
"They" are trained to know:
RSMo 571.030.4. Subdivisions (1) [against the law to CC], (8), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section shall not apply to any person who has a valid concealed carry permit issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121, a valid concealed carry endorsement issued before August 28, 2013, or a valid permit or endorsement to carry concealed firearms issued by another state or political subdivision of another state.
19 y/o is a MO requirement to obtain a valid MO license.

This topic should've been settled in Post #7.
 

Grapeshot

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d
I provided the cite(s) to the statute and the legislatures intent is in the statute language.

What if there is not a court case...ever? What can we deduce from a non-occurrence?
Can surmise that no one had the time, money, or inclination to pursue it.

"They" are trained to know:19 y/o is a MO requirement to obtain a valid MO license.

This topic should've been settled in Post #7.
But hasn't stopped us from giving opinions. And opinions are like ***holes, everybody has at least one of each. Present company not excluded. :p
 

kcgunfan

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It's not a surprise to some of us. It has a good chance of passing the Senate, it's almost certainly going to be vetoed. And I'd say even odds on being overridden. Although being right before an election will make an override more likely and a veto slightly less likely.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
 

TannerB

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It's been done in what, 9 states or so now?

My view is that if criminals get away with it every day, why are we keeping law abiding citizens from carrying like that.
 

solus

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alas tanner, life is not symmetrical and some citizens do not see common sense solutions easily. :lol:

ipse
 

Ezek

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Tell me about it, I HATE the criminal element, Work hard for what you get only to have it taken from you in minutes.

As evidenced by my bike getting stolen, found 3 blocks away, recovered, but with a busted upper triple clamp, ignition, fairings and headlight. it is now torn apart, until I can afford the required items for repair. which considering the headlight alone new is 600... it may take a while..

lesson learned though.. and a case hardened chain is on the to buy list.

why is it illegal to shoot these guys if your citizen, but perfectly fine if your a boy in blue? I will never know the answer to that.
 

Grapeshot

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Tell me about it, I HATE the criminal element, Work hard for what you get only to have it taken from you in minutes.

As evidenced by my bike getting stolen, found 3 blocks away, recovered, but with a busted upper triple clamp, ignition, fairings and headlight. it is now torn apart, until I can afford the required items for repair. which considering the headlight alone new is 600... it may take a while..

lesson learned though.. and a case hardened chain is on the to buy list.

why is it illegal to shoot these guys if your citizen, but perfectly fine if your a boy in blue? I will never know the answer to that.
No insurance? Even with deductable, most of the cost of repair would been covered I would think.

As to use of deadly force to protect property, the difference is not a simple as you would seem to think. LEOs cannot use such tactics to protect your property w/o serious recourse.
 

Ezek

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No insurance? Even with deductable, most of the cost of repair would been covered I would think.

As to use of deadly force to protect property, the difference is not a simple as you would seem to think. LEOs cannot use such tactics to protect your property w/o serious recourse.

only had liability, full coverage on a liter bike is 175/month with a really high deductible, 300/month for 500 deductible.. don't wanna know how much it is with a 250 or 0 deductible.

so basically two months of premium and I can have some cheap Fleabay fairings, another month, the headlight assembly, another month the upper triple AND an ignition... so 4 months of premiums = repaired bike.. fiscally.. seems unreasonable to me.

case hardened chain is on the buy list, along with a noisy as hell bike alarm and frame sliders.. and a couple motion lights.
 
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TannerB

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Okay so I'm not going to risk open carrying in public just because it's not worth it. BUT, I AM allowed to conceal in my car correct? Last I saw the code said you can conceal or open carry in a vehicle at 21 or at 18 while driving.
 

OC for ME

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571.030. 1. A person commits the crime of unlawful use of weapons if he or she knowingly:
(1) Carries concealed upon or about his or her person a knife, a firearm, a blackjack or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use; or ...

RSMo 571.030.3. Subdivisions (1), (5), (8), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section do not apply when the actor is transporting such weapons in a nonfunctioning state or in an unloaded state when ammunition is not readily accessible or when such weapons are not readily accessible. Subdivision (1) of subsection 1 of this section does not apply to any person nineteen** years of age or older or eighteen years of age or older and a member of the United States Armed Forces, or honorably discharged from the United States Armed Forces, transporting a concealable firearm in the passenger compartment of a motor vehicle, so long as such concealable firearm is otherwise lawfully possessed, nor when the actor is also in possession of an exposed firearm or projectile weapon for the lawful pursuit of game, or is in his or her dwelling unit or upon premises over which the actor has possession, authority or control, or is traveling in a continuous journey peaceably through this state. ...

RSMo 571.030.4. Subdivisions (1), (8), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section shall not apply to any person who has a valid concealed carry permit issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121, a valid concealed carry endorsement issued before August 28, 2013, or a valid permit or endorsement to carry concealed firearms issued by another state or political subdivision of another state.
The bold above is vague because carry on your person is not, or could be, the same as transporting "in your vehicle."

OC is legal for 18 and up if you are not prohibited from possessing a firearm. 21 y/o is for the purchase of a handgun. Remember to abide by RSMo 21.750.3 which permits political subdivision to require a CC permit to OC. Either way, while in your vehicle a CC permit is not required.

If you have the pistol on your belt for OCing being in a vehicle does not make the pistol concealed.
 

TannerB

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The bold above is vague because carry on your person is not, or could be, the same as transporting "in your vehicle."

OC is legal for 18 and up if you are not prohibited from possessing a firearm. 21 y/o is for the purchase of a handgun. Remember to abide by RSMo 21.750.3 which permits political subdivision to require a CC permit to OC. Either way, while in your vehicle a CC permit is not required.

If you have the pistol on your belt for OCing being in a vehicle does not make the pistol concealed.

Okay pardon my misunderstanding here. Is there somewhere I can find an up to date list of the places I cant open carry a handgun beings that I do not have a CC permit?

And what is the "permits political subdivision" part mean? Again, I'm sorry, just want to make sure I'm getting this right, this is pretty important to know for sure.
 

kcgunfan

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A political subdivision is a city, village, town, hamlet, or county. The law means that a political subdivision can make it illegal to carry without a CCW permit. There is no list, but KC, StL, and a lot of StL suburbs would be on it if there were.

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