Man arrested for OC in Colorado Springs park.

[rushcreek2]

Existence of a "Cheat-sheet", "CRS Reference Guide", or whatever it is called is no excuse for a LEO in Colorado to be "in the dark" regarding State firearm carry law.

LEO's should not be expected to be licensed attorneys at law, but ignorance of such a critical element of Colorado law - or simply "not comfortable" in a given circumstance????


FOR FUTURE REFERENCE:
Most of us on this forum realize that we are involved in a "marketing" effort - due to the fact that most Coloradoans are ignorant of the right to openly carry a holstered handgun under Colorado law, and many of those Coloradoans are a bit uneasy about the practice of OC.

SUCCESSFUL "marketing" must incorporate EFFECTIVE "selling" skills.

"You are apparently ignorant of the fact that Colorado law requires you to buy the product I am selling in the public square. It is important TO ME that you purchase my product, and if you don't buy it RIGHT AWAY I am going to get angry, raise my voice, and create a scene." I am curious as to whether others consider this to be a good marketing approach ?

As I recall the fundamental principles of successful sales are something along the lines of:


(1) Be prepared to provide customer with product KNOWLEDGE, in a friendly, personable manner.

(2) A PLAN of presentation for the product that addresses the CONCERNS OF THE PROSPECTIVE BUYER.

(3) DEMONSTRATE the POSITIVE FACETS of the product FOR THE CUSTOMER to evaluate.

(4) Be RESPONSIVE to any questions that the customer may have concerning your product.

Can this model not also be used when exercising our RTKBA ?

 

[papa bear]

Belligerence does absolutely nothing to help the situation. If detained, be cooperative, but non-committal, non-combative, and non-argumentative. Don't raise your voice, especially at the cops. Bottom line, he was being detained in the hopes that he's blow his cool and give the LEOs further reason to arrest him.

There's also a genuine duty and concern on the part of the LEOs about handing a firearm back to a hothead.

That said, if he was falsely arrested, he should sue the city for false arrest.

On the other hand, "I am not going in the back of a police car" is technically resisting arrest, even though later he complied. I find his continued belligerence, however, rather disturbing, as did the LEO's who took him in.

This is a classic example of how NOT to handle things. As for his statement about "hoping for a public apology from the officers," I dare say if he's been "cooperative, but non-committal, non-combative, and non-argumentative," they'd have let him go in short order, as MOST CSPD officers are well aware of the few holes in their cheat sheets.

By the way, their "cheat sheet" runs into the hundreds of pages. It's called "General Orders," and yes, it's a condensation of local, state, and federal law. Even lawyers and judges aren't clear on the full nuances of the law, and many have their own "cheat sheets," compiled by their research staffs. Police Officers are held to very high standards, but their profession is enforcing the law, not arguing its finer points. General Orders are created both for law enforcement officers (sworn officers) on the streets as well as military officers and line troops. The latter is invariably created by the JAG (Judge Advocate General) staff - i.e. lawyers - within a theater of operation. It's designed with two goals in mind: Keep the troops out of harm's way, and to expediently prosecute the war.

War??? are you indicating there is a war on citizens?

BTW, goodun RUSHCREEK

 

[OC for ME]

Existence of a "Cheat-sheet", "CRS Reference Guide", or whatever it is called is no excuse for a LEO in Colorado to be "in the dark" regarding State firearm carry law.

LEO's should not be expected to be licensed attorneys at law, but ignorance of such a critical element of Colorado law - or simply "not comfortable" in a given circumstance????


FOR FUTURE REFERENCE:
Most of us on this forum realize that we are involved in a "marketing" effort - due to the fact that most Coloradoans are ignorant of the right to openly carry a holstered handgun under Colorado law, and many of those Coloradoans are a bit uneasy about the practice of OC.

SUCCESSFUL "marketing" must incorporate EFFECTIVE "selling" skills.

"You are apparently ignorant of the fact that Colorado law requires you to buy the product I am selling in the public square. It is important TO ME that you purchase my product, and if you don't buy it RIGHT AWAY I am going to get angry, raise my voice, and create a scene." I am curious as to whether others consider this to be a good marketing approach ?

As I recall the fundamental principles of successful sales are something along the lines of:


(1) Be prepared to provide customer with product KNOWLEDGE, in a friendly, personable manner.

(2) A PLAN of presentation for the product that addresses the CONCERNS OF THE PROSPECTIVE BUYER.

(3) DEMONSTRATE the POSITIVE FACETS of the product FOR THE CUSTOMER to evaluate.

(4) Be RESPONSIVE to any questions that the customer may have concerning your product.

Can this model not also be used when exercising our RTKBA ?

Then again, if a "potential customer" does not like your "product" or "service" they typically do not have the power of the state to arrest you for hocking your wares.

In this day and age that particular "customer demographic" should/must be completely familiar with your product or service via research before engaging the vendor.

Sounded good though.

 

[papa bear]

don't think they have the power of state to have you arrested for something that is legal.

the real choice they have is to carry or not to carry, and trust their luck to never need a firarm

 

[since9]

Perhaps you could illuminate us with a few video examples of how you handled the same situation? It's easy enough to tell others after the fact what they did wrong.

No videos. I've been disarmed by law enforcement twice, once at a traffic stop and another while picking up pizza. It lasted all of a couple of minutes as they examined my CC permit, after which they returned my firearm. Throughout I was polite and cooperative.

Again, maintaining a calm, professional composure goes a long way towards avoiding complications.

I'm confident we could aid in making sure your next encounter is spotless if you could post a few videos.

Veiled threat? That's not advisable.

 

[bigtoe416]

Sorry for the necro-post, but the arrestee settled for $23.5k.

 

[JamesB]

Sorry for the necro-post, but the arrestee settled for $23.5k.

Don't be. That is the. most. appropriate. use of a necropost. Ever.

Bout time.

 

[RockyMtnScotsman]

I'm not suggesting that Sorenson should get a $600 gazillion settlement, but $24k seems pretty chintzy when you consider that the City paid a bicyclist who ran into a parked vehicle for $50k.

 

[onus]

Sorry for the necro-post, but the arrestee settled for $23.5k.

The attorney takes half, the victim has to pay taxes on he entire amount and at the end of the day he walks away with about $7,200.

All of the cops keep their jobs at $110,000 a year and the tax payer foots the bill for everyone.

Not really justice IMO

 

[OC for ME]

Clearly not a win, not even close, though the aggrieved citizen may think otherwise. The cops got away without a scratch in my view.

Confidentiality agreement and a "no wrong doing" claim. :banghead:

Another opportunity lost.

 

[Kopis]

No videos. I've been disarmed by law enforcement twice, once at a traffic stop and another while picking up pizza. It lasted all of a couple of minutes as they examined my CC permit, after which they returned my firearm. Throughout I was polite and cooperative.

Again, maintaining a calm, professional composure goes a long way towards avoiding complications.


.

i agree. I dont like it, but i am polite, respectful and follow instructions. It ended with the officer thanking me and some good 2A discussion.

 

[OC for ME]

i agree. I dont like it, but i am polite, respectful and follow instructions. It ended with the officer thanking me and some good 2A discussion.

Good 2A discussions certainly go a long way in abrogating the lawfulness of the LEO initiated encounter.

 

[DocWalker]

No videos. I've been disarmed by law enforcement twice, once at a traffic stop and another while picking up pizza. It lasted all of a couple of minutes as they examined my CC permit, after which they returned my firearm. Throughout I was polite and cooperative.

Again, maintaining a calm, professional composure goes a long way towards avoiding complications.



Veiled threat? That's not advisable.

You sir are a good surf to your masters........

You know the jews were polite and cooperative going into the showers also.....but I don't think the crown thought George Washington and his buddies were very polite and cooperative.

 

[F350]

No videos. I've been disarmed by law enforcement twice, once at a traffic stop and another while picking up pizza. It lasted all of a couple of minutes as they examined my CC permit, after which they returned my firearm. Throughout I was polite and cooperative.

Again, maintaining a calm, professional composure goes a long way towards avoiding complications.

PAPERS!!! You vill show your identity papers!!!!

 

[Augustin]

Sorry for the necro-post, but the arrestee settled for $23.5k.

Another article about the settlement:

http://www.offthegridnews.com/2013/...-arrested-for-open-carry-wins-big-settlement/

Reads in part:

"Open carry of a firearm is legal in Colorado parks, but that did not prevent the arrest of an Iraq and Afghanistan war veteran after last year who recently won a $23,000 lawsuit against the city of Colorado Springs.

James Sorensen was shocked when a Colorado Springs police officer approached him and began interrogating him about openly carrying a handgun in the park. The 13-minute ordeal was captured on video and ultimately involved three officers and a sergeant. Sorensen’s Second Amendment rights were violated because none of the local law enforcement officers knew that Colorado law began allowing open carry in city parks a decade ago."

I PERSONALLY THINK THIS CASE WAS A MAJOR VICTORY FOR OPEN CARRY RIGHTS, despite the low amount of the settlement. It has sent a message to the cops - both in Colorado Springs and also statewide - that there can be repercussions for unlawful detention.

Every time that OC is in the news it furthers the cause. This case had a lot of media attention, and the plaintiff won. Next time that Joe Public or Soccer Mom Sally sees an OCer they might be less likely to freak out.

 

[Cnon]

CSPD is pretty ignorant of Colorado (gun) law. During a routine traffic stop, CSPD told my wife it was illegal for her to have her revolver in her glovebox w/o a CCW permit. *BZZZT* Wrong. Bad cop, no doughnut for you!

ROFL


Cnon

 

[Firearms Iinstuctor]

I see a lot of these things happening because the command structure wants then to.

If not the command structure from the mayor/city counsel chief of police on down would make sure that their officers are properly informed.

That their ordinances are brought up to date.