LEOs Expressing opinions about OCDO site

[BudParker]

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Citizen wrote:

thx997303 wrote:

I will NOT be supportive of an officer "checking me out" without said officer having RAS for a Terry stop.

Ahhhhhh. Warms the heart.

Observation at a distance, please, Mr. Police Officer.

If I am even consensually contacted over my lawfully carried firearm, the obvious implication is that exercising the basic human right to self-defense is suspicious. This is emphatically unacceptable.

If I am in legal jeopardy from a police encounter, then fair is fair. The officer will be in jeopardy, too,in just this way:his personnel file and promotion prospects are in jeopardy. Each mistake he makes will be the subject of a bulleted point in a formal complaint.

Wanta bet whetherI have a good grasp of the 4th and 5th Amendment case law on foot encounters, Officer?

Wanta bet whether I can look up each and every point I don't know between the time you let me go and the time I write the formal complaint, Officer? The internet is wonderful for this kind of legal research and I'll have several days while my FOIA request is being filled.

So, unless you have a really, really good reasonor absolute necessity, observation from a distance is your friend, Officer.

Good points, but... How often do you want to battle the system? Just how much time do you have to invest in it? Hell, even when you win you lose.

Just a side comment: Do you know that in the State of Mississippi the Attorney General has found that a holster does, in fact, hide a firearm or portion thereof? Now, in court, you're "carrying a concealed weapon." Jeez, what happened to America?

 

[Gunslinger]

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I'm a Vietnam veteran, former Air Force Officer and current Air Force Program Manager who has officers who work for me and those I work for. I took an oath to support and defend the constitution twice and meant it equally. I have no use for those who violate that oath, military or cops. If you are "constitutionally right" the chances of going to jail are nil. Just keep in mind the constitution allows for black ink law. We have control, via the ballot box, over those who make those laws. If we don't like them, get their asses out and get someone in who will correct bad laws. An honest cop enforcing a bad law is doing his job--and he may like it less than I do. Change the laws in the PDRs of MA, NY, NJ, CA etc and many of the "bad cops" may become good cops. I was convicted of a speeding ticket, made the cop look like the fool he was in court, but the judge "had" to find me guilty under convention. He fined me $1 and handed me a dollar bill. He said he really wished he didn't have to do that, but until bad laws are rectified, he had no choice. So, there is something we can do, but it won't get done just by bitching about it. Next year is an election year, and in some states like VA, this year. Let's rock.

 

[ixtow]

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BudParker wrote: Good points, but... How often do you want to battle the system? Just how much time do you have to invest in it? Hell, even when you win you lose.

Just a side comment: Do you know that in the State of Mississippi the Attorney General has found that a holster does, in fact, hide a firearm or portion thereof? Now, in court, you're "carrying a concealed weapon." Jeez, what happened to America?

And just giving in to it will help more?

 

[BudParker]

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Hey Gunslinger,

I, too spent time in RVN. Door gunner in an Air Cav Troop. Anyway, you make good points about changing politicians if they won't do the right thing. Then, reality sets in. Look a Congress and the Senators and Rep's that are criminals. Tax evasion, graft, payola, etc. Even when caught they merely apologize and are reelected. Senators likelihood of reelection? 94%. Rep's? 98%. Once in office, idiot constituents (the vast majority of voters) simply pull the lever by the name they recognize. Poof! Back in office. Sad, but true.

We have to win in the media or we will continually have to prove we are right in court, presuming you live in the 90% of America that is tainted.

 

[Citizen]

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BudParker wrote:

SNIP Good points, but... How often do you want to battle the system? Just how much time do you have to invest in it? Hell, even when you win you lose.

How often? As often as necessary.

We're winning. Police have lost or settled a number of times already for illegal detentions or arrests. A few more are pending.

A group of OCers in Manassas, VAformally complained aboutan incident with pushy, over-reaching cops in 2007. The police of course denied everything they could when they released the conclusions of the internal affairs investigation. But, not one single OCer has been bothered or harassed in that town since.

Other 'burgs: Alexandria, VA;a city in Washington state, cities in Wisconsin, Michigan, PA.

Police, and government, are learning--leave the OCers alone, they knowthe law better than you, and they are willing to fight back.

 

[BudParker]

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No, just giving in will not help. Neither is going to lockup. Or, get confrontational, even just a little, with a LEO and see if you get knots on your head and a trip downtown. Jackson, MS is number 4 on the Murder List in America. Why? Only criminals carry. Citizens are much, much less likely to carry for the reasons I stated. Me totin' my piece ain't gonna cure the bigger picture.

It will take many of us preaching to the choir via radio and TV to publicize the problem, and the solution.

 

[Citizen]

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BudParker wrote:

No, just giving in will not help. Neither is going to lockup. Or, get confrontational, even just a little, with a LEO and see if you get knots on your head and a trip downtown. Jackson, MS is number 4 on the Murder List in America. Why? Only criminals carry. Citizens are much, much less likely to carry for the reasons I stated. Me totin' my piece ain't gonna cure the bigger picture.

It will take many of us preaching to the choir via radio and TV to publicize the problem, and the solution.

You know the situation on the ground there better than I.

Have you looked around to see what others are accomplishing, or not, in your area?

 

[ixtow]

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BudParker wrote:

No, just giving in will not help. Neither is going to lockup. Or, get confrontational, even just a little, with a LEO and see if you get knots on your head and a trip downtown. Jackson, MS is number 4 on the Murder List in America. Why? Only criminals carry. Citizens are much, much less likely to carry for the reasons I stated. Me totin' my piece ain't gonna cure the bigger picture.

It will take many of us preaching to the choir via radio and TV to publicize the problem, and the solution.

I guess I'm a little confused. So far, every cop who has crossed the line on this has gotten their asses handed to them in court, and most of the rest decided to fall in line.

If you don't push and tack that chance, then they already win and you make no progress.

Mississippi isn't Utah, though... ;-) My State is even worse, it is an absolute lost cause. I'm leaving.

 

[BudParker]

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Yea, those that accomplish anything go get a CCW. That is not the answer.

 

[Gunslinger]

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BudParker wrote:

Hey Gunslinger,

I, too spent time in RVN. Door gunner in an Air Cav Troop. Anyway, you make good points about changing politicians if they won't do the right thing. Then, reality sets in. Look a Congress and the Senators and Rep's that are criminals. Tax evasion, graft, payola, etc. Even when caught they merely apologize and are reelected. Senators likelihood of reelection? 94%. Rep's? 98%. Once in office, idiot constituents (the vast majority of voters) simply pull the lever by the name they recognize. Poof! Back in office. Sad, but true.

We have to win in the media or we will continually have to prove we are right in court, presuming you live in the 90% of America that is tainted.

I agree we need the media to report the truth. Outside of Fox, that doesn't happen. I think next year may be different. Obooba wants change, but it's the sos with him that it was with Klinton. The country may be in a mood next year for real change to occur. And incumbents, I truly believe, will be made to answer like hasn't happen since about '96. How'd you like the M-60? My "gun" was the Vulcan M-61A1. The guys really like the M-240 nowadays, it seems.

 

[BudParker]

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Gunslinger wrote

I agree we need the media to report the truth. Outside of Fox, that doesn't happen. I think next year may be different. Obooba wants change, but it's the sos with him that it was with Klinton. The country may be in a mood next year for real change to occur. And incumbents, I truly believe, will be made to answer like hasn't happen since about '96. How'd you like the M-60? My "gun" was the Vulcan M-61A1. The guys really like the M-240 nowadays, it seems.

I was linked at the hip with an M-60. Typical day... I fired 8,000 to 12,000 rounds through one. Majority of the time I didn't use a mount; just free-gun. We were the Last combat aviation asset in IV Corp, so we flew a lot. M-60 was superb. I spent a lot of time behind the M2 .50 cal, also.

We had a door-mounted Mini-Gun also. It was fun, but a pain in the ass to reload!

 

[Citizen]

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BudParker wrote:

Gunslinger wrote

I agree we need the media to report the truth. Outside of Fox, that doesn't happen. I think next year may be different. Obooba wants change, but it's the sos with him that it was with Klinton. The country may be in a mood next year for real change to occur. And incumbents, I truly believe, will be made to answer like hasn't happen since about '96. How'd you like the M-60? My "gun" was the Vulcan M-61A1. The guys really like the M-240 nowadays, it seems.

I was linked at the hip with an M-60. Typical day... I fired 8,000 to 12,000 rounds through one. Majority of the time I didn't use a mount; just free-gun. We were the Last combat aviation asset in IV Corp, so we flew a lot. M-60 was superb. I spent a lot of time behind the M2 .50 cal, also.

We had a door-mounted Mini-Gun also. It was fun, but a pain in the ass to reload!

Easy, guys. I don't want to encourage Grapeshot. Next thing you know, we'll have to listen to several pages reminiscences about the Springfield 03in the Belgian trenches in1918.

 

[BudParker]

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Hey Citizen,

Did I ever tell you about the sling I used to kill Goliath?

 

[Citizen]

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BudParker wrote:

Hey Citizen,

Did I ever tell you about the sling I used to kill Goliath?

Oh, my. I suspected Grapeshot was around for that history-making event. I had no idea you might have been, too.

 

[Francis Marion]

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the M240 may be adequate for mounted operations but it absolutely sucks for dismounted use. It has not forward hand guard so don't even think of firing it from any position other than on it's bipod or a tripod. The hot brass is also ejected directly under the gun which means that frequent burns to the elbows and chest makes firing it a very unpleasant experience.

 

[Gunslinger]

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Francis Marion wrote:

the M240 may be adequate for mounted operations but it absolutely sucks for dismounted use. It has not forward hand guard so don't even think of firing it from any position other than on it's bipod or a tripod. The hot brass is also ejected directly under the gun which means that frequent burns to the elbows and chest makes firing it a very unpleasant experience.

Interesting. I was thinking of mounted in a chopper, specifically. Any problems with reliability? That was the knock on the '60.' Although most Air Cav guys I knew said it was fine. Better off in the dirt with it (240) , anyway. Stay safe.